December 18, 2017, 04:10:28 AM

Author Topic: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score  (Read 9932 times)

Talys

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2017, 03:26:40 PM »
There is no Nikon glass I would like for bird photography.  I don't go for the 500/4 and 600/4 even for Canon as they are too heavy for me.  The Nikom 200-500mm is too heavy, and several reports prefer the Tamron 150-600mm (it zooms in the same rotation as Nikon) and the 80-400mm is not a good lens. I do not know first hand but I have read that Nikon's don't have C1, C2 and C3 on the mode dial that store settings faithfully.  Please correct me if I am wrong. I do want a Canon with the D850 specs.

Yes, you've described the logical conclusion that I've drawn as the "intellectual" reason to choose Canon. 

Even though I don't own a big f/4, I'd like to own one, one day, and even though I expect I will use a gimbal for that, it's okay; I'd much rather the canon 600 f/4 than the Nikon 600 f/4 (for weight reasons).  On lens under $3,000 USD, the 200-500 appeals on paper, but is much less friendly to carry around and shoot stuff with than Canon's 100-400.

It doesn't really matter if the D850 is super duper awesome, if there aren't matching, intermediate telephoto friendly to carry around.  At the moment, frankly, the third party 100-400's are the best choice for carry-around, and I far prefer Canon's because of ease of MF, consistent autofocus, and MFD.

And sure, I, too, would love to see D850 sensor specs in a Canon body, though to be frank, I probably wouldn't spring for it, as it may be over the price range I like to spend on bodies.  I am much more willing to invest in lens, because of the lifespan where they stay in their "prime" (ie when they aren't superceded by a better lens choice).

The less intellectual reason that I choose Canon is just one of preference.  I like Canon cameras.   And by the way, I would never buy another camera that didn't have custom dial functions like C1.  It's like buying a car without a cupholder.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 03:30:06 PM by Talys »

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2017, 03:26:40 PM »

Hflm

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2017, 04:19:04 PM »
I find it confusing that it scored a perfect 100, yet the review discusses several areas where it is less than perfect and the data indicates that other cameras either beat or matched its performance on particular criteria.

Does this mean DXO will soon be turning the amplifier up to "11."

100 isn't perfect.  It's just a number.  If memory serves, prior EPIC cameras and a medium format rig have scored over 100 before.  This is just the first FF SLR to hit that mark.

- A
I can't understand, why people are so concerned with an arbitrary score, weighted to base iso DR.

If I look at the A7rii, for example and compare the measurement curves, apart from low iso dr, the A7rii is as good or better over the whole iso range in tonality, color sensitivity, S/N ratio (the D850 is 1db behind the A7rii or 5div). That alone shows how useless a single number is for a complex system, which many here know. But the human strive for simplifying and rating everything doesn't stop many from thinking such a score to be important.

Hector1970

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2017, 04:49:35 PM »
Well done Nikon on getting a *100* Sensor Score.
They have created a great camera in the D850.
It ticks alot of boxes for users. They pushed the boat out quite a bit with it.
I think it ensures current Nikon users will stay with the brand and they needed a confidence boost.
It's a camera that gives them hope for the future that Nikon can continue to compete and even beat the opposition.
I'm heavily invested in Canon. Their lens are excellent and their cameras are good.
I think alot users like to feel they have the best brand even if they haven't the best version themselves.
It's why companies create flagship models.
They often don't expect to sell that many of them but it gives people something to aspire too and a confidence to stick with the brand as it shows what they are capable of. Canon need to remember this from time to time and not rest on their laurels. Other than the 1DX in recent years you don't feel they are making the best camera they could. The 5D IV made sure it wasn't too far behind anything else but Canon certainly didn't push the boat out. Still a fine camera but not a dream upgrade from a 5DIII.
The better Nikon and Sony cameras are the better Canon cameras will need to be to attract new users to the brand. This in the end is good for a user like me.
While people here feel DXO ratings are not valid they are at least a method to judge. It does influence buyers new to the market and its a great marketing tool for Nikon. So for me well done again Nikon.

AlanF

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2017, 04:57:20 PM »
There is no Nikon glass I would like for bird photography.  I don't go for the 500/4 and 600/4 even for Canon as they are too heavy for me.  The Nikom 200-500mm is too heavy, and several reports prefer the Tamron 150-600mm (it zooms in the same rotation as Nikon) and the 80-400mm is not a good lens. I do not know first hand but I have read that Nikon's don't have C1, C2 and C3 on the mode dial that store settings faithfully.  Please correct me if I am wrong. I do want a Canon with the D850 specs.

Yes, you've described the logical conclusion that I've drawn as the "intellectual" reason to choose Canon. 

Even though I don't own a big f/4, I'd like to own one, one day, and even though I expect I will use a gimbal for that, it's okay; I'd much rather the canon 600 f/4 than the Nikon 600 f/4 (for weight reasons).  On lens under $3,000 USD, the 200-500 appeals on paper, but is much less friendly to carry around and shoot stuff with than Canon's 100-400.

It doesn't really matter if the D850 is super duper awesome, if there aren't matching, intermediate telephoto friendly to carry around.  At the moment, frankly, the third party 100-400's are the best choice for carry-around, and I far prefer Canon's because of ease of MF, consistent autofocus, and MFD.

And sure, I, too, would love to see D850 sensor specs in a Canon body, though to be frank, I probably wouldn't spring for it, as it may be over the price range I like to spend on bodies.  I am much more willing to invest in lens, because of the lifespan where they stay in their "prime" (ie when they aren't superceded by a better lens choice).

The less intellectual reason that I choose Canon is just one of preference.  I like Canon cameras.   And by the way, I would never buy another camera that didn't have custom dial functions like C1.  It's like buying a car without a cupholder.

The Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 600mm f/4E FL ED VR is actually lighter than the Canon EF 600mm f/4 II; 3,810g vs 3,924g. You might have got the weight information from TDP, which has just the older Nikon 600mm f/4G AF-S VR and hasn't updated it.
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Talys

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #19 on: October 07, 2017, 06:50:34 PM »
The Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 600mm f/4E FL ED VR is actually lighter than the Canon EF 600mm f/4 II; 3,810g vs 3,924g. You might have got the weight information from TDP, which has just the older Nikon 600mm f/4G AF-S VR and hasn't updated it.

You're right -- I wasn't even aware that Nikon had refreshed their 600mm f/4.  The last time I looked at reviews of Nikon 600mm f4's was around the time I switched (from Nikon) to Canon, a very long time ago, I guess, now that I think about it.  I've only occasionally flirted with the idea of buying a $10,000 lens, so I don't exactly follow those.

Jopa

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2017, 07:48:03 PM »
Other than the 1DX in recent years you don't feel they are making the best camera they could.

Why? The 5DsR was a better camera than the D810 (unless DR is the ultimate important thing in a camera). Canon will respond with the 5DsR II next year. 5Dm4 is a great walkarounder, but I guess Canon simply underestimated the competition this year, otherwise we would probably see a beefier camera. It's always a catch up game.

ahsanford

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2017, 08:50:22 PM »
Why? The 5DsR was a better camera than the D810 (unless DR is the ultimate important thing in a camera). Canon will respond with the 5DsR II next year. 5Dm4 is a great walkarounder, but I guess Canon simply underestimated the competition this year, otherwise we would probably see a beefier camera. It's always a catch up game.

Sure, but tip your cap when your rivals actually raise the bar, though.  The D810 sensor was arguably the best SLR sensor on the planet for a surprisingly long time, and now the D850 plausibly can go after 5DS customers *and* 5D4 customers.  When you can push 45 x 9 data, you can honestly play to both fields with one product -- fast enough for the 5D4 crowd and detailed enough for the 5DS crowd.

Sony gets all the credit for these spec sheet phantoms that shouldn't exist, do exist, yet we don't find that dream so compelling once we've tried it

Nikon, on the other hand -- in light of recent product disappointments (CX, a high end P&S line they killed), poor sales and corporate restructuring -- is thought of this wounded giant on the decline.  Yet the D500 and D850 are exactly the sort of spec sheet powerhouses we'd expect from Sony.  Short of IBIS and something resembling DPAF, on paper those rigs have everything -- terrific sensors, huge throughput, solid AF, 4K, solid ergonomics and solid lenses.  Critically, they get photography in a way I don't think Borg-like Sony does. 

So, yeah, the D850 would appear to be the 5D4 many were looking for.

But the chasm in enthusiasm for Nikon products vs. Sony products is telling.  Am I to deduce that if everyone thinks Sony is Canon's biggest threat (and not Nikon), that's it's less about specs or sensors and more about FF mirrorless in general?

- A

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2017, 08:50:22 PM »

dak723

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2017, 09:48:50 PM »
But the chasm in enthusiasm for Nikon products vs. Sony products is telling.  Am I to deduce that if everyone thinks Sony is Canon's biggest threat (and not Nikon), that's it's less about specs or sensors and more about FF mirrorless in general?

- A

I think it is more about Sony's reputation for innovation and perceived greater tech.  And I don't think it is real photographers that are on the Sony bandwagon, it is those more interested in tech - which seem to make up a large percentage of photo forum dwellers.  Having used Olympus and Canon cameras for so long, I would never get a Nikon as it's zoom (and focus) dials go the "wrong" way, but otherwise I would never hesitate to get a Nikon.  Sony...not so much.  Tried it, didn't like it in any way.

snoke

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2017, 10:49:38 PM »
First two shipments D850 sold out in USA. Popular camera.

D850 tick many boxes - including price.

If Nikon mirrorless D850 but thin mount, buy with EF adapter. Killer combination.

AlanF

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2017, 03:40:16 AM »
First two shipments D850 sold out in USA. Popular camera.

D850 tick many boxes - including price.

If Nikon mirrorless D850 but thin mount, buy with EF adapter. Killer combination.
D850 + EF mount = killer combination.
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SecureGSM

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2017, 03:46:54 AM »
D850 + EF mount = 5DsR II  ;)



D850 + EF mount = killer combination.

AlanF

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2017, 04:41:04 PM »
D850 + EF mount = 5DsR II  ;)



D850 + EF mount = killer combination.

Here's hoping!
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Jopa

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2017, 04:53:32 PM »
D850 + EF mount = 5DsR II  ;)



D850 + EF mount = killer combination.

Yes that was the only (but very significant) downside of the d850 - it doesn't take EF lenses which render it useless. I hope too the 5dsr2 will fix this :)

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2017, 04:53:32 PM »

Orangutan

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2017, 05:24:09 PM »
This thread will reach 5..... oh, wait 50 pages. Then Haters will be mentioned. Praise be to Godwin!

I'm happy for Nikon! Hopefully they kicked the nuts of Canon to improve too!

Actually, the CR forum is about the only place on the internet that *doesn't* confirm Godwin's law.

Not needed. Many Canon-Haters's do job

 ;D

Please explain this in detail, I don't understand your joke at all.

Go Wikipedia, search Godwin's law

No, that part I get.  The question is why you thought this was funny.  Seems rather lame to me.

Orangutan

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2017, 05:26:17 PM »
D850 + EF mount = 5DsR II  ;)



D850 + EF mount = killer combination.

Yes that was the only (but very significant) downside of the d850 - it doesn't take EF lenses which render it useless. I hope too the 5dsr2 will fix this :)

Not the only downside, price is another one.  I'm not saying it's not fairly priced, I'm just saying it's priced out of my budget, as well as not taking EF lenses.   :)

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Re: DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score
« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2017, 05:26:17 PM »