December 12, 2017, 07:10:45 PM

Author Topic: DXO Test on 16-35mm from sony  (Read 4023 times)

xps

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DXO Test on 16-35mm from sony
« on: October 14, 2017, 12:20:10 PM »
DXO Tested the Sony 16-35 GM lens:
https://www.dxomark.com/sony-fe-16-35mm-f28-gm-lens-review-highest-rated-wide-angle-zoom/

How can you explain the big gap in sharpness compared to the 16-35 III from Canon?

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DXO Test on 16-35mm from sony
« on: October 14, 2017, 12:20:10 PM »

Larsskv

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Re: DXO Test on 16-35mm from sony
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2017, 01:07:38 PM »
My 16-35 LIII is way sharper than any of the four 24-70LII lenses I’ve had, yet DXO says the 24-70 scores 32 in sharpness on the 5Dsr, and the 16-35LIII scores 24.

My 16-35 LIII is as sharp as my 35LII, maybe sharper at f5.6. The DXO score does not correspond with my experience.

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: DXO Test on 16-35mm from sony
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2017, 01:26:27 PM »
The first law of lens testing says not to compare tests on one model with tests on a different model camera.  That law does not apply to France, of course, they have their own set of rules.

There is also the small matter if using a undefined number to rate sharpness rather than the standard resolution used by the rest of the world.  What is Perceptual Mpix?  As far as I know, its a rating that is determined by a secret formula that no one else knows or can repeat.


So, wait for other testers to weigh in with their test methods that are repeatable and at least comparible across testers.  Roger at Lens Rentals will eventually look at the results using just the lens with his tester, that takes the camera out of the equation, so its another data point.

I have no reason to believe that it is not a super lens, Canon does compromise between producability, repairability, and pricing and leans heavily toward profitability.  I think that Sony makes a lens more expensive to produce, very difficult and expensive to repair, and has a fat profit as well, that's a common denominator.

Companies buying equipment often look at a thing called Life Cycle Costs.  I suspect that the Sony cost over its life is going to be a huge difference.  For Enthusiasts who do not use a product day in and day out, its likely a lesser cost, but, if they drop one, they will wish it were insured.

AlanF

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Re: DXO Test on 16-35mm from sony
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2017, 04:33:53 PM »
Roger has done proper MTF tests.  The Canon looks superior.
https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2017/08/sony-fe-16-35mm-f2-8-gm-sharpness-tests/
5D IV, 5DS R, 400mm DO II, 1.4xTC III, 2xTC III, EF 1.8 STM,  EF 24-105, 100-400 II, EF-S 15-85, Sigma 150-600mm C, EOS-M5 15-45, f/2 22, 11-22, Samyang 8mm f/2.8 fisheye: sold 7D II, EOS-M, Powershot G3 X,  Sigma 10-20, EF 300/2.8 II, 70-200/4 IS.

raptor3x

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Re: DXO Test on 16-35mm from sony
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2017, 05:16:20 PM »
Roger has done proper MTF tests.  The Canon looks superior.
https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2017/08/sony-fe-16-35mm-f2-8-gm-sharpness-tests/

Could be due to sample variation in DxO's copies or it could be coming from the Sony or Canon performing differently at short focal distances versus infinity.
Bodies: X-T1, E-M1, E-M1ii, Pen-F Lenses:  µ.Z 7-14 2.8, µ.Z 12-40 2.8, µ.Z 17 1.8, µ.Z 25 1.2, X 18-55 2.8-4, µ.Z 40-150 2.8, µ.Z 60 2.8, µ.Z 75 1.8, Z 150 2.0, µ.Z 300 4.0

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: DXO Test on 16-35mm from sony
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2017, 05:53:24 PM »
Roger has done proper MTF tests.  The Canon looks superior.
https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2017/08/sony-fe-16-35mm-f2-8-gm-sharpness-tests/

Thanks for the link.  Looking at his display of the wide variability of 35mm performance, its possible that a single Sony lens could be better than a single Canon lens.

Its the expected result of issuing a single test value that is done using a secret formula to give a nonsense value.

As other lens testers weigh in, we may see a lot of variability at the 35mm focal length, but they should all look good at 16mm.

AlanF

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Re: DXO Test on 16-35mm from sony
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2017, 06:21:49 PM »
Yes. Drawing conclusions from testing a single copy of one lens vs a single copy of another is in the realm of fake news. 
5D IV, 5DS R, 400mm DO II, 1.4xTC III, 2xTC III, EF 1.8 STM,  EF 24-105, 100-400 II, EF-S 15-85, Sigma 150-600mm C, EOS-M5 15-45, f/2 22, 11-22, Samyang 8mm f/2.8 fisheye: sold 7D II, EOS-M, Powershot G3 X,  Sigma 10-20, EF 300/2.8 II, 70-200/4 IS.

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Re: DXO Test on 16-35mm from sony
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2017, 06:21:49 PM »

BillB

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Re: DXO Test on 16-35mm from sony
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2017, 07:00:30 PM »
Roger has done proper MTF tests.  The Canon looks superior.
https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2017/08/sony-fe-16-35mm-f2-8-gm-sharpness-tests/

Could be due to sample variation in DxO's copies or it could be coming from the Sony or Canon performing differently at short focal distances versus infinity.

Could also have to do with DXO's use of different camera bodies with different sensors for the two lenses, along with secret, and quite possibly unreliable, assessment methods.

Jopa

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Re: DXO Test on 16-35mm from sony
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2017, 02:57:05 AM »
Roger has done proper MTF tests.  The Canon looks superior.
https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2017/08/sony-fe-16-35mm-f2-8-gm-sharpness-tests/

Could be due to sample variation in DxO's copies or it could be coming from the Sony or Canon performing differently at short focal distances versus infinity.

Also could be due to a few dollars (euros, yens, russian roubles, etc...) coming from Sony ;)

SecureGSM

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Re: DXO Test on 16-35mm from sony
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2017, 04:36:45 AM »
What are they smoking over there at DXO Labs?

Canon 16-35 III is so sharp it is reduculous!
Ignore them. They are total nuts.
I ran FoCal calibration on my 16-35 III and was shocked how sharp the lens is.
The Mark II lens is quite soft at 35mm end but Mark III is a stellar performer. 


Could also have to do with DXO's use of different camera bodies with different sensors for the two lenses, along with secret, and quite possibly unreliable, assessment methods.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2017, 07:05:15 AM by SecureGSM »

Talys

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Re: DXO Test on 16-35mm from sony
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2017, 01:44:28 PM »
What are they smoking over there at DXO Labs?

Canon 16-35 III is so sharp it is reduculous!
Ignore them. They are total nuts.
I ran FoCal calibration on my 16-35 III and was shocked how sharp the lens is.
The Mark II lens is quite soft at 35mm end but Mark III is a stellar performer. 


Could also have to do with DXO's use of different camera bodies with different sensors for the two lenses, along with secret, and quite possibly unreliable, assessment methods.

One thing that I dislike about DXO's lens ratings is that they do not consider the autofocus consistency.   

My favorite lenses aren't just really sharp when they're mounted on a tripod and I have the luxury of making sure that it's perfectly focused.  My favorite lenses have highly reproducible autofocus, where I can rely on AF being in sharp focus every time.  Or, in Reikan FoCal terms, the curve "fit".  It doesn't really matter to me on a lens that I'm not manually focusing, if it's really sharp, but it only AFs to really sharp 1 time out of 4.

As an example, my Canon 50/1.8 and 50/1.4 have terrible AF consistency, and my Sigma 150-600 is slightly inconsistent.  So I CAN get amazing sharp images out of them.  But AF inconsistency makes AFMA much less useful -- sometimes -8 gives me a perfect image; sometimes +3 gives me a perfect image.

In comparison, my 24-70 or 70-200 or 100-400 all have dead-on consistency, so once tuned, I can be very confident about it.  But this is never considered in DXO tests.

ahsanford

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Re: DXO Test on 16-35mm from sony
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2017, 07:14:49 PM »
One thing that I dislike about DXO's lens ratings is that they do not consider the autofocus consistency.   

+1.  I've owned/used/rented three f/2.8L zooms and got nothing but flawless AF performance from them.  I continue to marvel at how fast/accurate/consistent my 70-200 f/2.8L IS II is.

And Sony has the gall to court L-lens loving Canonites with FBW lenses.  ::)  I'm sure they are sharp for the money they are charging for them, but LensTip -- the only show in town for fairly consistent AF testing -- doesn't have this 16-35 G Master or many other recent offerings to report on AF consistency.  I'm actually curious to see how they perform.

- A

SecureGSM

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Re: DXO Test on 16-35mm from sony
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2017, 08:08:23 PM »
Are you saying there is a AF consistency problem with  MILCs now?
There is none in my books :)
What about MF lenses? Zeiss Otus glass is second rate now?  ;D
One thing that I dislike about DXO's lens ratings is that they do not consider the autofocus consistency.   

+1.  I've owned/used/rented three f/2.8L zooms and got nothing but flawless AF performance from them.  I continue to marvel at how fast/accurate/consistent my 70-200 f/2.8L IS II is.

And Sony has the gall to court L-lens loving Canonites with FBW lenses.  ::)  I'm sure they are sharp for the money they are charging for them, but LensTip -- the only show in town for fairly consistent AF testing -- doesn't have this 16-35 G Master or many other recent offerings to report on AF consistency.  I'm actually curious to see how they perform.

- A

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Re: DXO Test on 16-35mm from sony
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2017, 08:08:23 PM »

Jopa

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Re: DXO Test on 16-35mm from sony
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2017, 10:49:00 PM »
Are you saying there is a AF consistency problem with  MILCs now?
There is none in my books :)
What about MF lenses? Zeiss Otus glass is second rate now?  ;D
One thing that I dislike about DXO's lens ratings is that they do not consider the autofocus consistency.   

+1.  I've owned/used/rented three f/2.8L zooms and got nothing but flawless AF performance from them.  I continue to marvel at how fast/accurate/consistent my 70-200 f/2.8L IS II is.

And Sony has the gall to court L-lens loving Canonites with FBW lenses.  ::)  I'm sure they are sharp for the money they are charging for them, but LensTip -- the only show in town for fairly consistent AF testing -- doesn't have this 16-35 G Master or many other recent offerings to report on AF consistency.  I'm actually curious to see how they perform.

- A

It's possible (but very rare) with OSPDAF in the AF-S (one shot) mode. The camera showed a green OSPDAF square on my subject but the focus was somewhere else.  I think a pure CDAF or DPAF should not have this problem.

Also it depends on the implementation. Sony is focusing at the chosen aperture, and it's good to prevent any focus shift, but if the lens doesn't have any - the result won't be as sharp as focusing wide open and then narrowing the aperture down. Diglloyd once complained about this issue. There is no perfect solution... :)

ahsanford

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Re: DXO Test on 16-35mm from sony
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2017, 02:14:58 AM »
Are you saying there is a AF consistency problem with  MILCs now?
There is none in my books :)
What about MF lenses? Zeiss Otus glass is second rate now?  ;D

Have you seen the AF testing on the Otus?  Wow.  Worst AF LensTip ever tested.

- A

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Re: DXO Test on 16-35mm from sony
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2017, 02:14:58 AM »