December 10, 2017, 07:43:39 PM

Author Topic: Off Brand: Sony Announces the Full-frame a7R III  (Read 31309 times)

privatebydesign

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the Full-frame a7R III
« Reply #285 on: November 26, 2017, 02:36:58 PM »

"if a camera body saves you literally hours per job due to less processing time it would be a foolish commercial shooter that chose not to go that route" - I would love to know how shooting a Sony camera saves processing time?

I feel like we are going in circles.
There is a lot more shadow and lower tones detail in a Sony file when pushed. Push it 2-3 stops if necessary and its very clean. I use CaptureOne and it makes a very nice 16bit tiff.
Not so with any Canon camera I had and I started with a 20D (after using EOS3 and other Canon film cameras).
Pushing the 6D, 5DMk2, or 1Dx and noise comes quickly, blocked shadows and cross hatch banding.
With interiors or architecture sometimes spaces aren't lit that much or that well so I live in the shadows in post so to speak. I use supplemental lighting at times but its not always feasible or aesthetically called for. If I shot outside daylight all of the time or was always using strobe, DR wouldn't be a big deal.
This is my work, not talking about cameras online. So yes the Sony files saves me a lot of time in post so it was an easy choice. I also use the tilt screen on every shoot, I wouldn't want to give that up. Focusing right off the sensor is great too.

I feel the most important part of pro photography is who you know - not your talent or gear. The most successful names in my field don't always put out the best work in my opinion but they know the right people. That could be the case in most other fields as well. I am competing by being technically precise with immaculate post production.

Yesh, compare the brand new Sony to a 5d2 and 1dx which have the old sensor tech. Compare it to the 1dx2 and 5d4 and your argument isn’t valid anymore

Now that is true, but the A7R MkII had that advantage when we only had the options of the 5D MkII/III, 6D/MkII, and 1DX. Make no mistake, for some users that was an overwhelming advantage that truthfully did save a lot of time, personally I sat out all Canon upgrades from the 1Ds MkIII until the 1DX MkII principally because of it.
Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the Full-frame a7R III
« Reply #285 on: November 26, 2017, 02:36:58 PM »

Viggo

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the Full-frame a7R III
« Reply #286 on: November 26, 2017, 02:50:28 PM »

"if a camera body saves you literally hours per job due to less processing time it would be a foolish commercial shooter that chose not to go that route" - I would love to know how shooting a Sony camera saves processing time?

I feel like we are going in circles.
There is a lot more shadow and lower tones detail in a Sony file when pushed. Push it 2-3 stops if necessary and its very clean. I use CaptureOne and it makes a very nice 16bit tiff.
Not so with any Canon camera I had and I started with a 20D (after using EOS3 and other Canon film cameras).
Pushing the 6D, 5DMk2, or 1Dx and noise comes quickly, blocked shadows and cross hatch banding.
With interiors or architecture sometimes spaces aren't lit that much or that well so I live in the shadows in post so to speak. I use supplemental lighting at times but its not always feasible or aesthetically called for. If I shot outside daylight all of the time or was always using strobe, DR wouldn't be a big deal.
This is my work, not talking about cameras online. So yes the Sony files saves me a lot of time in post so it was an easy choice. I also use the tilt screen on every shoot, I wouldn't want to give that up. Focusing right off the sensor is great too.

I feel the most important part of pro photography is who you know - not your talent or gear. The most successful names in my field don't always put out the best work in my opinion but they know the right people. That could be the case in most other fields as well. I am competing by being technically precise with immaculate post production.

Yesh, compare the brand new Sony to a 5d2 and 1dx which have the old sensor tech. Compare it to the 1dx2 and 5d4 and your argument isn’t valid anymore

Now that is true, but the A7R MkII had that advantage when we only had the options of the 5D MkII/III, 6D/MkII, and 1DX. Make no mistake, for some users that was an overwhelming advantage that truthfully did save a lot of time, personally I sat out all Canon upgrades from the 1Ds MkIII until the 1DX MkII principally because of it.

Oh I agree. But now it’s no point comparing and bringing up again that Canon sensors USED to be behind on DR.
1dx mkII, 35 L II, 85 L IS, Broncolor Siros 800 L.

Lyle Krannichfeld

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the Full-frame a7R III
« Reply #287 on: November 29, 2017, 01:48:22 PM »
I kind of skimmed this thread and have to say I'm really not all that surprised by the animosity from the Canon crowd. Even just a year ago I would have been right there with you, sneering at the Sony fans. However, I really wish folks would take a genuine and unbiased look again. They are innovating at an amazing rate.

I've been shooting Canon since the first digital Rebel (and also have a New F1) and am very close to switching...and I've always said I'd NEVER switch. I've been an extremely loyal Canon shooter for quite a while. Platinum CPS etc.

The a7r3 is 42 mp, 10fps, with excellent af and something I didn't see mentioned (which is likely to really upset folks), has significantly sharper lenses in testing over L lenses almost across the board. Focus peaking, tilting screen, they fixed the battery life, and still 1.1 stops better DR than the 5d4.

Someone tell me that if they listed the a7r3 specs and performance as the new 5d5 you wouldn't be absolutely frothing to get your hands on it saying it's the greatest camera ever. There is some serious hate for Sony and I think its based more on peoples dislike for Sony FANS versus the cameras themselves. Perhaps a little thinking they are 'gimmicky' and fiddly and I think that a little too, though the menus have improved a lot and honestly a lot of that tech is really useful.

FOR ME PERSONALLY, coming from the 5ds R it's a significant upgrade. I shoot landscapes, underwater, wildlife etc professionally and in my situations, it will be a great camera. For instance, I shoot a lot of huge waves from the water. The fact that it shoots twice the fps and has more than 3 times the buffer is a big win there. And nobody will complain about picking up more than 2 stops DR for the switch.

Are they perfect? No. Are they for everybody? No...though at this point I'd say unless you need the extreme big white telephotos, the Sony's are a very compelling idea.

If you're up for it, do some reading. Compare the comparable lenses on DXOMark. Watch some of the reviews. Be open minded. Pretend it says Canon on it if it helps.

They've come a really long way in a short period of time.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 01:56:17 PM by Lyle Krannichfeld »
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ahsanford

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the Full-frame a7R III
« Reply #288 on: November 29, 2017, 02:23:45 PM »
Someone tell me that if they listed the a7r3 specs and performance as the new 5d5 you wouldn't be absolutely frothing to get your hands on it saying it's the greatest camera ever. There is some serious hate for Sony and I think its based more on peoples dislike for Sony FANS versus the cameras themselves. Perhaps a little thinking they are 'gimmicky' and fiddly and I think that a little too, though the menus have improved a lot and honestly a lot of that tech is really useful.

We would be frothing at the mouth, of course.  Those are great specs.  But that hypothetical 5D5 camera would come with an OVF and Canon knowhow, quality, service, ergonomics, and the EF portfolio to go with that droolworthy spec sheet.

Screw the fans, I don't care about them.  I just hate the read that a higher spec'd body will deliver you a better photography experience.  Nowhere on that A7R3 spec list is that you will enjoy the ergonomic poleaxing of a dainty grip ill-suited for heavy glass and far too close to the mount to leave room for your fingers.  Nowhere on that spec list says that you need to buy plutonium-priced focus by wire glass to get back the first party AF glass you used to use on your CaNikon.  Nowhere on that list does it say how much smaller the list of native options and third party ecosystem are. Nowhere on that list is a bulletproof reputation of durability and survivorship in the field.

Yes, Sony has come a long way.  But for all the spec sheets in the world, they still have a long way to go, IMHO.

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Dylan777

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the Full-frame a7R III
« Reply #289 on: November 29, 2017, 02:37:50 PM »
Someone tell me that if they listed the a7r3 specs and performance as the new 5d5 you wouldn't be absolutely frothing to get your hands on it saying it's the greatest camera ever. There is some serious hate for Sony and I think its based more on peoples dislike for Sony FANS versus the cameras themselves. Perhaps a little thinking they are 'gimmicky' and fiddly and I think that a little too, though the menus have improved a lot and honestly a lot of that tech is really useful.

We would be frothing at the mouth, of course.  Those are great specs.  But that hypothetical 5D5 camera would come with an OVF and Canon knowhow, quality, service, ergonomics, and the EF portfolio to go with that droolworthy spec sheet.

Screw the fans, I don't care about them.  I just hate the read that a higher spec'd body will deliver you a better photography experience.  Nowhere on that A7R3 spec list is that you will enjoy the ergonomic poleaxing of a dainty grip ill-suited for heavy glass and far too close to the mount to leave room for your fingers.  Nowhere on that spec list says that you need to buy plutonium-priced focus by wire glass to get back the first party AF glass you used to use on your CaNikon.  Nowhere on that list does it say how much smaller the list of native options and third party ecosystem are. Nowhere on that list is a bulletproof reputation of durability and survivorship in the field.

Yes, Sony has come a long way.  But for all the spec sheets in the world, they still have a long way to go, IMHO.

- A

With current specs sheet on a7r III + this logo, I'm sure everything is perfect  ;D
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 11:19:51 PM by Dylan777 »

chrysoberyl

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the Full-frame a7R III
« Reply #290 on: November 29, 2017, 02:38:34 PM »
I kind of skimmed this thread and have to say I'm really not all that surprised by the animosity from the Canon crowd. Even just a year ago I would have been right there with you, sneering at the Sony fans. However, I really wish folks would take a genuine and unbiased look again. They are innovating at an amazing rate.

I've been shooting Canon since the first digital Rebel (and also have a New F1) and am very close to switching...and I've always said I'd NEVER switch. I've been an extremely loyal Canon shooter for quite a while. Platinum CPS etc.

The a7r3 is 42 mp, 10fps, with excellent af and something I didn't see mentioned (which is likely to really upset folks), has significantly sharper lenses in testing over L lenses almost across the board. Focus peaking, tilting screen, they fixed the battery life, and still 1.1 stops better DR than the 5d4.

Someone tell me that if they listed the a7r3 specs and performance as the new 5d5 you wouldn't be absolutely frothing to get your hands on it saying it's the greatest camera ever. There is some serious hate for Sony and I think its based more on peoples dislike for Sony FANS versus the cameras themselves. Perhaps a little thinking they are 'gimmicky' and fiddly and I think that a little too, though the menus have improved a lot and honestly a lot of that tech is really useful.

FOR ME PERSONALLY, coming from the 5ds R it's a significant upgrade. I shoot landscapes, underwater, wildlife etc professionally and in my situations, it will be a great camera. For instance, I shoot a lot of huge waves from the water. The fact that it shoots twice the fps and has more than 3 times the buffer is a big win there. And nobody will complain about picking up more than 2 stops DR for the switch.

Are they perfect? No. Are they for everybody? No...though at this point I'd say unless you need the extreme big white telephotos, the Sony's are a very compelling idea.

If you're up for it, do some reading. Compare the comparable lenses on DXOMark. Watch some of the reviews. Be open minded. Pretend it says Canon on it if it helps.

They've come a really long way in a short period of time.

Wow, why so acerbic and defensive?  Personally, I am giving Sony a hard look.

But add more info; how do you find Sony service?
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chrysoberyl

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the Full-frame a7R III
« Reply #291 on: November 29, 2017, 03:22:53 PM »
Nowhere on that spec list says that you need to buy plutonium-priced focus by wire glass to get back the first party AF glass you used to use on your CaNikon.

What?!  All good Sony lens options are focus by wire?  I guess I'm the Luddite; I do not want focus by wire!
6D, 80D, 5D IV, Zeiss Milvus 100mm Makro, Sigma 180mm/2.8 macro, Canon 100mm macro, Canon 24mm/1.4, Sigma 35/1.4, Tokina 16-28, Canon 1.4X III TC, Canon 2X III TC, Rokinon 14mm 2.4, Sigma 135mm ART.

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the Full-frame a7R III
« Reply #291 on: November 29, 2017, 03:22:53 PM »

ahsanford

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the Full-frame a7R III
« Reply #292 on: November 29, 2017, 03:40:12 PM »
Nowhere on that spec list says that you need to buy plutonium-priced focus by wire glass to get back the first party AF glass you used to use on your CaNikon.

What?!  All good Sony lens options are focus by wire?  I guess I'm the Luddite; I do not want focus by wire!

Their best glass (the GM line) is all FBW.  Can't speak for the lower priced options or third party AF lenses.

Keep in mind our EF 85 f/1.2L II USM is also FBW, so I woudn't associate FBW with poor optics or anything (those GM lenses are certainly sharp).  But I prefer FTM mechanical focusing, and if the sales of the new 85 f/1.4L IS are any indication, others may feel the same way (though IS + sharpness + sealing + pure AF speed likely have a lot more to do with it).

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Mikehit

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the Full-frame a7R III
« Reply #293 on: November 29, 2017, 05:58:40 PM »

Screw the fans, I don't care about them.  I just hate the read that a higher spec'd body will deliver you a better photography experience.  Nowhere on that A7R3 spec list is that you will enjoy the ergonomic poleaxing of a dainty grip ill-suited for heavy glass and far too close to the mount to leave room for your fingers.  Nowhere on that spec list says that you need to buy plutonium-priced focus by wire glass to get back the first party AF glass you used to use on your CaNikon.  Nowhere on that list does it say how much smaller the list of native options and third party ecosystem are. Nowhere on that list is a bulletproof reputation of durability and survivorship in the field.


I have read more than one review saying how the Sony is a great tool but sucked the fun out of photography.

This interview with Rob Galbraith gives a very balanced view of the Sony system but more widely about mirrorless sector in general - and ergonomics (including the size of the camera itself), post-sales support and lenses are mentioned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwYoFDyQxsU


dak723

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the Full-frame a7R III
« Reply #294 on: November 29, 2017, 07:11:44 PM »
I kind of skimmed this thread and have to say I'm really not all that surprised by the animosity from the Canon crowd. Even just a year ago I would have been right there with you, sneering at the Sony fans. However, I really wish folks would take a genuine and unbiased look again. They are innovating at an amazing rate.

I've been shooting Canon since the first digital Rebel (and also have a New F1) and am very close to switching...and I've always said I'd NEVER switch. I've been an extremely loyal Canon shooter for quite a while. Platinum CPS etc.

The a7r3 is 42 mp, 10fps, with excellent af and something I didn't see mentioned (which is likely to really upset folks), has significantly sharper lenses in testing over L lenses almost across the board. Focus peaking, tilting screen, they fixed the battery life, and still 1.1 stops better DR than the 5d4.

Someone tell me that if they listed the a7r3 specs and performance as the new 5d5 you wouldn't be absolutely frothing to get your hands on it saying it's the greatest camera ever. There is some serious hate for Sony and I think its based more on peoples dislike for Sony FANS versus the cameras themselves. Perhaps a little thinking they are 'gimmicky' and fiddly and I think that a little too, though the menus have improved a lot and honestly a lot of that tech is really useful.

FOR ME PERSONALLY, coming from the 5ds R it's a significant upgrade. I shoot landscapes, underwater, wildlife etc professionally and in my situations, it will be a great camera. For instance, I shoot a lot of huge waves from the water. The fact that it shoots twice the fps and has more than 3 times the buffer is a big win there. And nobody will complain about picking up more than 2 stops DR for the switch.

Are they perfect? No. Are they for everybody? No...though at this point I'd say unless you need the extreme big white telephotos, the Sony's are a very compelling idea.

If you're up for it, do some reading. Compare the comparable lenses on DXOMark. Watch some of the reviews. Be open minded. Pretend it says Canon on it if it helps.

They've come a really long way in a short period of time.

I can only speak for myself, but I have no company loyalty whatsoever.  I own both Canon and Olympus cameras and bought a Sony A7 and then an A7 II a few years back to replace my Canon 6D.  I was looking forward to getting this great camera with the far better sensor that I had been reading about.  And that is part of the problem, reading about the specs, reading the review sites which are heavily weighted towards discussing the innovations, rather than discussing camera basics that don't change much over the years and aren't nearly as interesting.

It is of course possible that Sony has made improvements with their 3rd generation of FF mirrorless, but having tried and returned both of the previous 2 generations, they would have had to make great improvements for me to even consider another Sony FF.  Why?  I cannot afford expensive lenses, so I would have to go with the kit lenses that Sony offers (which are not that cheap either, I might add).  Due to the short flange distance (presumably) my results with those lenses was very bad.  Anything away from the camera center was quite blurry.  Various reviews of these lenses confirmed my experience.  Other reasons that I didn't like my Sonys:  The first one I bought was underexposing by at least 1 1/2 stops, the second, by about one stop.  The EVF was quite a bit darker than real life and much worse than the EVF on my Olympus E-M1.  The ergonomics are awful and it is very uncomfortable to hold the camera.  And while the last is a very personal judgement, the color is far less pleasing than Canon color is.  So, while the specs and the innovations are certainly going to attract an audience, the camera basics - color, good affordable lenses, exposure metering, comfort, good viewfinder - are all sub-par. 

3kramd5

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the Full-frame a7R III
« Reply #295 on: November 29, 2017, 11:46:32 PM »

"if a camera body saves you literally hours per job due to less processing time it would be a foolish commercial shooter that chose not to go that route" - I would love to know how shooting a Sony camera saves processing time?

I feel like we are going in circles.
There is a lot more shadow and lower tones detail in a Sony file when pushed. Push it 2-3 stops if necessary and its very clean. I use CaptureOne and it makes a very nice 16bit tiff.
Not so with any Canon camera I had and I started with a 20D (after using EOS3 and other Canon film cameras).
Pushing the 6D, 5DMk2, or 1Dx and noise comes quickly, blocked shadows and cross hatch banding.
With interiors or architecture sometimes spaces aren't lit that much or that well so I live in the shadows in post so to speak. I use supplemental lighting at times but its not always feasible or aesthetically called for. If I shot outside daylight all of the time or was always using strobe, DR wouldn't be a big deal.
This is my work, not talking about cameras online. So yes the Sony files saves me a lot of time in post so it was an easy choice. I also use the tilt screen on every shoot, I wouldn't want to give that up. Focusing right off the sensor is great too.

I feel the most important part of pro photography is who you know - not your talent or gear. The most successful names in my field don't always put out the best work in my opinion but they know the right people. That could be the case in most other fields as well. I am competing by being technically precise with immaculate post production.

Yesh, compare the brand new Sony to a 5d2 and 1dx which have the old sensor tech. Compare it to the 1dx2 and 5d4 and your argument isn’t valid anymore


Similarly people judge Sony by its previous ills (service, interface, responsiveness, lack of lenses).

This is probably the most tiresome subject on canonrumors, especially without the comic stylings of dilbert.

I had an A7R. It was truly awful. I have an A7R2. It feels like it gets in the way a bit but is otherwise good. On paper Sony addressed almost everything about A7R2 which bothers me, but I’m not a buyer (the combo of my 1Dx and A7R2 satisfies my needs).
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 11:51:48 PM by 3kramd5 »
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Isaacheus

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the Full-frame a7R III
« Reply #296 on: November 30, 2017, 06:39:02 PM »
Has anyone ordered and received a Sony a7r3 and been able to compare it with the 5dmk4 or 5dsr?

I've had mine for about a week but the adapter only arrived a day or so ago so haven't been able to do anything more than play with it in the backyard, cats and insects so far.

Coming from a 6d (which I'll tell until it completely dies) and an often borrowed 5dmk3, it's a huge improvement, but I'm quite aware that they're also very different price points/levels so would be interested how others are finding it.

Downsides so far are mostly user error, adjusting to differing af modes etc. And the battery life, not as strong as the 6d when you leave it on constantly, but plenty for a good shooting session overall

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Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the Full-frame a7R III
« Reply #296 on: November 30, 2017, 06:39:02 PM »