December 12, 2017, 02:02:14 AM

Author Topic: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?  (Read 20014 times)

jeanluc

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2017, 11:21:21 AM »
Also being intrigued with the A7R hype, I have spent a fair bit of time at my local Best Buy playing with one.

After about half an hour of menu-scrolling, and certainly no manual-reading,I was able to get it set up like my Canon bodies for landscape shooting...back button AF, bracketing etc. You can definitely set it up very much the same for that.

The nuances of the AF modes I did not worry about, since I don't use these as my camera is nearly always on a tripod and nothing moves. So no comment there.

For me the Canon ergonomics are a lot better, the menus are WAY easier to intuitively navigate and frankly with my size 8 hands, the slightly smaller body is no advantage at all. In fact, with 2.8 lenses the A7 just doesn't balance well for me.

So I do have some techno-envy, but when I'm shooting in the rain and my hands are muddy from climbing down into some wet ravine and the light is changing fast, I will stick with what I know and works very well all the time.

When Canon does go FF mirrorless, I really hope they do not change much including the body size. After making pro-level bodies for a long time, the design is mature and works very well for many well-proven reasons.

I also feel with the 5D4 sensor there is no meaningful gap in IQ any more, (although with the 5d3 there sure is). The upcoming 5DSR2 will almost certainly be even better with higher resolution if that is an issue for you.

Since the IQ results are what matters, I am staying put.

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2017, 11:21:21 AM »

bokehmon22

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2017, 11:34:21 AM »
I'm waiting for Canon to respond. I do wedding photography on the side in addition to 6 figure job so it isn't all about money, but glass, workflow, ergonomic (especially for 12-16 hrs weddings), compatibility with strobe/lighting gears. I'm willing to take a hit if it's significantly improve my image quality. We have to see the real life review.

I also play with A7RII and it feel like a toy. I would have to buy a grip to make it comfortable for long wedding. The menu is clunky but I can get use to that. I hope adapted lens will be much improve with A7RIII.

If Canon doesn't respond with FF mirrorless and it's lackluster, the Sony A7RIII/A7III will be much cheaper by the time Canon responded.

ethanz

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2017, 12:50:24 PM »
Why not try out the 1DX2? I think it would do all you want, except for the resolution bump.
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CanonFanBoy

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2017, 12:51:46 PM »
Yeah, it's time to jump ship.
5D Mark III, Canon A-1, Voigtlander Vito, Tamron SP 15-30 f/2.8 Di VC, 24-70 F/2.8L II, 70-200 f/2.8L IS II, 35 f/1.4L II, 135 f/2L, Helios 58 f/2 (x3), Canon FD 50 f/1.8, 600EX-RT (x7), Streaklight 360ws. Jumping ship to SoNikon any day now.

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2017, 01:06:04 PM »
Sony and Canon have two basically different philosophy's, Sony miniaturizes the products, and this makes them very expensive to repair.  By the time the warranty is up, it can be smarter to toss a broken one than pay big bucks and wait months for repair.  Sony invented Throw-Away products.  They were successful and they have stayed with it.  Its particularly painful for their lenses, which Canon users expect to last for 20 and more years.  When a Sony lens breaks, it tends to be difficult to repair, and its a long wait.  If you are running a business, you just toss it and buy another.  If you are not wealthy, it can be painful.

Canon gives a very high priority to the manufacturing and repair costs of a product, and does not put a feature in a product that their target market does not need.  This makes the products less cutting edge, less expensive to manufacture and less expensive to repair, so the cost of ownership is lower.

Each philosophy works for a different group of buyers, there is no right or wrong, its a individual choice.  Buyers in general don't know or care about all this, they go to Best Buy, Costco, Walmart, Amazon, etc and buy a brand they trust for the lowest possible price.

Some countries have residents who tend to value photography more than others.  Japan is often considered to be in that category.  Thus, buyers of cameras in Japan are believed to be paying more attention to the workings and ergonomics of what they buy, and are looked to as a bellwether for which is best, the caveat being that the fit into a person's hand, and overall size may have different values by country or region.

ahsanford

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2017, 01:59:00 PM »
Short answer seeing your lens lineup:   stay with Canon.

If you really feel tempted by the Sony specs go get one rented for a few days, try to get used to the UI and ergonomics and if it fits well, then spend the money on Sony.

Pray that you'll never get in need to contact their service ;)

+1.  Not renting before migrating to an entirely different camera platform is like moving to another country without having spent a day there. 

Say it 10 times: try before you buy.

Hand fit / hand comfort with big lenses attached alone may be a dealbreaker for you. 

- A
« Last Edit: October 25, 2017, 02:03:44 PM by ahsanford »

ahsanford

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2017, 02:01:10 PM »
I love my Canon 35/1.4 IS and have favored a lighter kit as you can see above and am happy with the lenses overall. 

Either you have a time machine to use a lens that does not exist, or that's a typo. 

If it's the former, please go back to the future and get me a 50 f/nooneknows IS USM, thanks.  ;)

- A

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2017, 02:01:10 PM »

ethanz

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2017, 02:40:41 PM »
@ahsanford

eoren1, You mentioned a Canon 35/1.4 IS lens in your collection.  I'm thinking that's a typo.  Did you mean to type II instead of IS?

I meant the 35/2 IS...sorry!

Really a great lens
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greger

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2017, 02:56:14 PM »
I think you are going to regret jumping ship to Sony. If you put your Canon gear in a box in the back of your closet, you can pull it out and use it if and when Sony fails to satisfy your needs. You would only lose money on the Sony gear and not the Canon gear too. Obviously the 5 D IV didn’t fit your needs. As someone else suggested maybe 1D X ll is your next Camera. You should use the gear you have and see what Canon releases in 2018 or when your 5D lll finally packs it in.
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dak723

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2017, 03:17:10 PM »
As others have mentioned, if you can rent one it will help you decide.  I tried the Sony A7 and A7 II a couple years ago with the intent of selling my 6D.  With very limited experience with these cameras before I returned them, I found:

Very poor ergonomics.  Very uncomfortable to hold and the opposite direction for focus and zoom on their lenses was a real negative.

While obviously personal taste. Canon's color is better than Sony's.

The difference in DR was not noticeable in any daytime shots I took.  Plus, the Canon tonal curves were much more to my liking.  Again, personal taste.

I couldn't afford any of the higher end lenses and the kit lenses (while not cheap) were very poor.  It might have been the result of the small flange distance which made image quality poor anywhere away from the center of the image.

In the end, I returned both Sony cameras.  There was not one thing that I about them that I liked more than Canon.

Of course, that was a different model, but the ergonomics, flange distance, lenses, etc are all the same.

eoren1

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2017, 03:26:54 PM »
As others have mentioned, if you can rent one it will help you decide.  I tried the Sony A7 and A7 II a couple years ago with the intent of selling my 6D.  With very limited experience with these cameras before I returned them, I found:

Very poor ergonomics.  Very uncomfortable to hold and the opposite direction for focus and zoom on their lenses was a real negative.

While obviously personal taste. Canon's color is better than Sony's.

The difference in DR was not noticeable in any daytime shots I took.  Plus, the Canon tonal curves were much more to my liking.  Again, personal taste.

I couldn't afford any of the higher end lenses and the kit lenses (while not cheap) were very poor.  It might have been the result of the small flange distance which made image quality poor anywhere away from the center of the image.

In the end, I returned both Sony cameras.  There was not one thing that I about them that I liked more than Canon.

Of course, that was a different model, but the ergonomics, flange distance, lenses, etc are all the same.

Thanks - interesting to hear about zoom and focus being 'backwards'.

Didn't even think of Best Buy as mentioned above and have one near my work so will visit tomorrow or Friday and see how it the a7Rii feels in-hand.
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kingrobertii

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2017, 03:47:47 PM »
I use Sony cameras a lot for work and I will say the menu system is enough of a reason for most people to not switch over because it is absolutely miserable. Also the AF system on their cameras for fast action sports is not accurate in the least from my experience. Like others have said, rent and try it. But don't get caught up on the specs on paper. If you need more resolution, wait a year for the new 5DsR and pick up that or the original model.
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ahsanford

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2017, 03:57:57 PM »
I use Sony cameras a lot for work and I will say the menu system is enough of a reason for most people to not switch over because it is absolutely miserable. Also the AF system on their cameras for fast action sports is not accurate in the least from my experience. Like others have said, rent and try it. But don't get caught up on the specs on paper. If you need more resolution, wait a year for the new 5DsR and pick up that or the original model.

Also, if horsepower specs (MP, FPS, 4K) and sensor quality are indeed the primary reason you'd want to switch (i.e. more than being smaller, ditching the mirror, adapting the lenses, etc.) and you're prepared to eat the pain/cost/time to do that, I'd get a D850 ten times out of ten over an A7/A9:

Equivalent detail, throughput and (likely) sensor quality
FX >> FE for lenses (in options, cost, not being saddled with Sony's focus by wire GM nonsense, etc.)
Still has an OVF
Nikon photography ergonomics/controls DNA >> Sony photography ergonomics/controls DNA

Just saying.  I wouldn't leave Canon for another mount, but if I did, the D850 would be my first choice.

- A

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2017, 03:57:57 PM »

jayphotoworks

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2017, 04:36:18 PM »
Just like to chime in here. I migrated to an A7R2/A9 combination this year coming from a Panasonic GH/MFT ecosystem since 2013. I ended up also migrating all of my MFT lenses to FE as well in the process to take advantage of the specific AF features like 20fps, Eye-AF, etc.

I'm not sure many people here have used an A9, and they might be basing their comparisons based on the A7R2 era. But I've shot a few weddings on this camera and the AF is exceptionally fast and like the reviews say, it is reactive because it doesn't have to be predictive with absolutely no blackout. You can't fully grasp that until you've either rented or owned it and shot with one on the job.

The battery system and power management are significantly better than the A7R2. I've shot 2x4K weddings with 2 batteries total over 11 hours with power remaining and I'm sure if I was doing stills only 1 battery could last an entire day. The A7R2 needed 6 battery swaps. The A9 also has a custom menu option and also a custom recall which I absolutely enjoyed using on Canon bodies previously. It also has separate drive and af dials, a touchscreen for af and a joystick controller. It also does dual 4K backup recordings across both memory cards. The A7R3 will gain a lot of these improvements for sure.

Some competitor's do eventually catch up, so it's always great to keep an open mind and consider your alternatives.

neuroanatomist

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2017, 05:03:42 PM »
...the AF is exceptionally fast and like the reviews say, it is reactive because it doesn't have to be predictive with absolutely no blackout. You can't fully grasp that...

So you're saying the a9 has absolutely no shutter lag?  Even though Imaging Resource measured it at over 200 ms?  Or are you saying that moving subjects don't move over the course of 2/10 of a second?  You're right, I can't fully grasp that. 
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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2017, 05:03:42 PM »