December 18, 2017, 04:09:15 AM

Author Topic: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?  (Read 21339 times)

jayphotoworks

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #60 on: October 26, 2017, 07:56:12 PM »
I'm really not making this up myself at all.

The a9 takes the best parts of Sony's existing on-sensor phase detection autofocus systems and takes them up a notch. Indeed, without a mirror blocking the autofocus points and with 60 calculations every second, the camera doesn't really need to 'predict' the same way other flagships do; it can just react to the scene in near-real time.

This is Dpreview's account of the camera's behavior.

I'm really not making this up myself at all.

The earth is flat. The Round Earth doctrine is little more than an elaborate hoax.

This is the Flat Earth Society's account of the shape of the world. 

Happy Quote Unreliable Internet Sources In Blue Text Day, everyone!  ;D

All internet sources are inherently unreliable, but some bear more credibility than others. One can only perform their best due diligence based on the reviewers history. My perception of the AF system comes strictly from anecdotal experience, but in line with some of the more credible reviews out there. The editor at Dpreview has been reviewing and testing cameras for the last 9+ years, I'm sure his anecdotal experience might be somewhat more accurate than an armchair reviewer that doesn't even own or has ever shot on this camera.

Wouldn't you say so?


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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #60 on: October 26, 2017, 07:56:12 PM »

Don Haines

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #61 on: October 26, 2017, 08:03:52 PM »
Have you tried flash photography on the kids? It gets you more light to work with.....

For dedicated portraits, sure, but for just hanging out, travel, candids and so on, the flash overshadows the moment, makes it about me, etc. and I almost never use it.

- A

I use this contraption. Might get a few looks from other parents at the playground but boy are those pictures great!
Boy could I ever have a lot of fun with that! Totally impractical on hiking and canoe trips, but boy would I ever get some great campfire pictures....
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #62 on: October 26, 2017, 08:16:46 PM »
The editor at Dpreview has been reviewing and testing cameras for the last 9+ years

Some editors at DPR are credible.  Some are biased.  One is an outright liar. 

But what I would say is that it's not worth my time to continue a discussion with someone who refuses to acknowledge an egregiously false statement when called on it, because such an individual isn't worthy of respect. 
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SecureGSM

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #63 on: October 26, 2017, 08:18:28 PM »
boy do I also get a few looks with this contraption running and gunning. get's the job done though. I replaced GODOX 360II with GODOX TT685c in order to reduce the weight at least somewhat. I love your Octa box, btw. Awesome size.





I use this contraption. Might get a few looks from other parents at the playground but boy are those pictures great!
« Last Edit: October 26, 2017, 08:25:19 PM by SecureGSM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #64 on: October 26, 2017, 08:31:41 PM »
I use this contraption. Might get a few looks from other parents at the playground but boy are those pictures great!

Nice!  Personally, I use a Lastolite Ezybox Speed-Lite, usually on an RRS flash bracket (although it can go directly on the hotshoe).  The octa would give better catchlights.
EOS 1D X, EOS M2, lots of lenses
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ethanz

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #65 on: October 26, 2017, 08:41:19 PM »
1DX II, 16-35L f/4 IS, 24-70L f/2.8 II, 70-200L f/2.8 IS II, 200-400L f/4 IS w/1.4 EXT
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jayphotoworks

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #66 on: October 26, 2017, 09:33:02 PM »
The editor at Dpreview has been reviewing and testing cameras for the last 9+ years

Some editors at DPR are credible.  Some are biased.  One is an outright liar. 

But what I would say is that it's not worth my time to continue a discussion with someone who refuses to acknowledge an egregiously false statement when called on it, because such an individual isn't worthy of respect.

I had already explained what I had meant to convey. You continued to beat a dead horse.

I wrote:

The AF is exceptionally fast and like the reviews say, it is reactive because it doesn't have to be predictive with no blackout.


What I meant:

The AF is exceptionally fast and like the reviews say, it is reactive because it doesn't have to be predictive. There is also no VF blackout.

How you decided to interpret this:

The AF is exceptionally fast and like the reviews say, it is reactive because it doesn't have to be predictive since it has no blackout.


The statement was not conveyed properly due to grammatical errors but it isn't a false statement because I didn't say it was fast because it had no blackout, I said it didn't need to be predictive because it can be reactive. The blackout was a separate concept entirely.

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #66 on: October 26, 2017, 09:33:02 PM »

Don Haines

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #67 on: October 26, 2017, 10:43:01 PM »
The editor at Dpreview has been reviewing and testing cameras for the last 9+ years

Some editors at DPR are credible.  Some are biased.  One is an outright liar. 

But what I would say is that it's not worth my time to continue a discussion with someone who refuses to acknowledge an egregiously false statement when called on it, because such an individual isn't worthy of respect.

I had already explained what I had meant to convey. You continued to beat a dead horse.

I wrote:

The AF is exceptionally fast and like the reviews say, it is reactive because it doesn't have to be predictive with no blackout.


What I meant:

The AF is exceptionally fast and like the reviews say, it is reactive because it doesn't have to be predictive. There is also no VF blackout.

How you decided to interpret this:

The AF is exceptionally fast and like the reviews say, it is reactive because it doesn't have to be predictive since it has no blackout.


The statement was not conveyed properly due to grammatical errors but it isn't a false statement because I didn't say it was fast because it had no blackout, I said it didn't need to be predictive because it can be reactive. The blackout was a separate concept entirely.
I assumed you meant that the AF is exceptionally fast.....

Come on people..... think about this...... You push the shutter, the camera does a final AF, and (presumably) 10ms later the image capture begins.... Or you can pick up your 1DX2, push the shutter, the camera does a final AF, and about 30ms later the image capture begins.....

One camera delays by 10ms, the other by 30ms....  OK, fine.... the Sony is faster..... but then again, the iDX2 (presumably) does a much better job of predicting AF changes so that negates the extra delay.... My bet is that there is no clear winner and that both cameras do a good job..... and besides, how much did things really move in the extra 20ms anyway?

This is not worth fighting over, particularly when the fight seems to be mostly nitpicking about semantics and perceived meaning.....

« Last Edit: October 26, 2017, 10:45:24 PM by Don Haines »
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SecureGSM

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #68 on: October 27, 2017, 12:35:23 AM »
Don, 20ms is 1/50s. An object that moves at 50km/h speed across the frame, travels approx. 27cm in 20ms time. It could be a deal breaker for someone who shoots with a long telephoto wide open.



and besides, how much did things really move in the extra 20ms anyway?

This is not worth fighting over, particularly when the fight seems to be mostly nitpicking about semantics and perceived meaning.....

Orangutan

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #69 on: October 27, 2017, 01:03:24 AM »
Don, 20ms is 1/50s. An object that moves at 50km/h speed across the frame, travels approx. 27cm in 20ms time. It could be a deal breaker for someone who shoots with a long telephoto wide open.



and besides, how much did things really move in the extra 20ms anyway?

This is not worth fighting over, particularly when the fight seems to be mostly nitpicking about semantics and perceived meaning.....

If it's moving that fast across the frame you're probably panning with it, regardless of the gear you're using.

9VIII

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #70 on: October 27, 2017, 01:14:19 AM »
I decided to poke around DPReview for some Fuji content and on the Open Discussion section I noticed this: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/60271613

Which reads exactly the same as half the other threads when I joined 5 years ago.

Canon is the best system of Photographic Tools on the market, bar none, and most likely always will be.
I’m getting a Fuji X-E3, variety is nice and Fuji does a lot of unique things with their system, but I am under no delusions about where the futue of the industry is headed.
Technology will equalize, Sony’s arms race can only get them so far and as soon as everyone is pushing computers to the limits you’re right back to square one and all of a sudden Canon wins at everything.
Just watch Sony have a few bad years and shut down the Alpha division.
Some day every half baked camera they’ve ever made is going to become a liability.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 03:42:57 AM by 9VIII »

SecureGSM

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #71 on: October 27, 2017, 01:30:28 AM »
fair point, and what if the subject is incoming? :) it's all rhetorics though as the original question was: how much the thing can / will move in 20ms?
We all know how well Canon AF cases work when tuned to a specific condition. Yes, Sony progressing really fast in that regard and it all starting to make sense finaly for many events and studio shooters (with small pen.. hands? :D )


If it's moving that fast across the frame you're probably panning with it, regardless of the gear you're using.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 01:34:17 AM by SecureGSM »

Ian_of_glos

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #72 on: October 27, 2017, 02:44:16 AM »
Short answer seeing your lens lineup:   stay with Canon.

If you really feel tempted by the Sony specs go get one rented for a few days, try to get used to the UI and ergonomics and if it fits well, then spend the money on Sony.

Pray that you'll never get in need to contact their service ;)

Those are my two concerns

UI/ergonomics - gave up on the Nikon in 5 minutes when I couldn't figure out how to focus and the guy at Ritz couldn't either.  That and the fact that all functions are 180 degree different (knob rotations, lens changes).  Very curious if anyone here has played with the a7R series to compare.

Service - I'm a member of CPS but haven't actually needed to use any service in at least 1 and possibly 2 years now.  The 5DmkIII feels pretty much bulletproof.  I'm at nearly 150,000 actuations and haven't had the lockups or other issues that I've read about with the Sonys.

To that list I would add reliability. I have now twice been persuaded to go and try a Sony A7 because it is clearly "better" than my 5D mark 3 isn't it? The first time was when the A7 was launched and the second time was when the A7ii was launched. On both occasions the camera crashed during the demo. The Sony salesman had to take the battery out to restart the camera. The second time it happened the salesman said "oh it often does that". What?? I have had 3 Canon DLSRs now and none of them have ever crashed or frozen. I get the feeling that Sony are so desperate to launch amazing new cameras with ground breaking features that they start selling products before they have been properly tested.

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #72 on: October 27, 2017, 02:44:16 AM »

scottkinfw

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #73 on: October 27, 2017, 03:09:06 AM »
boy do I also get a few looks with this contraption running and gunning. get's the job done though. I replaced GODOX 360II with GODOX TT685c in order to reduce the weight at least somewhat. I love your Octa box, btw. Awesome size.





I use this contraption. Might get a few looks from other parents at the playground but boy are those pictures great!

I have a pair of  Lastolite soft boxes on two flashes mounted on stands in my office and they work great.  Walking around with them, especially in a crowd would be unwieldy, and I would fear from my gear.  For mobility, I use Gary Fong diffusers- light, unobtrusive, easy to transport, etc.

https://www.garyfong.com/products/lightsphere-collapsible-speed-mount

And also, produces nice images.

Scott
« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 03:46:39 AM by scottkinfw »
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Plus lots of stuff that just didn't work for me

scottkinfw

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #74 on: October 27, 2017, 03:36:22 AM »


I understand that going against Canon products on a Canon forum is not going to net me a pass on my English or grammar here. Fair enough.

No-one really cares about you gong against Canon products. They really don't.
What people react to is false logic. Like a camera not using predictive focussing.

I'm really not making this up myself at all.

The a9 takes the best parts of Sony's existing on-sensor phase detection autofocus systems and takes them up a notch. Indeed, without a mirror blocking the autofocus points and with 60 calculations every second, the camera doesn't really need to 'predict' the same way other flagships do; it can just react to the scene in near-real time.

This is Dpreview's account of the camera's behavior. Whether or not this camera is fully predictive or reactive, it is capturing 20fps, and those 20fps are mostly in focus when in comparison with top-shelf flagship DSLRs that aren't shooting at 20fps.

To me, jumping ship, or whatever you want to call it would be painful, not unlike for example, a divorce.  I'm happy with my gear, and it serves me well.  My gear doesn't limit the quality of my images- that would be me.  In the mean time, go with a Sony.  You want to trash Canon, I don't think anyone here is really offended.  In reading the posts, I a at once amused, but also impressed with the sage and thoughtful replies that have been put forth.

Scott
« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 03:48:13 AM by scottkinfw »
Cameras: 1DXII,5D III, 5D II.  Lenses    24-70 2.8L II IS, 70-200 f4L IS, 70-200 f2.8L IS II, EF 400 5.6L, 300 2.8 IS II, Samyang 14 mm 2.8.   Flashes: 600EX-RT X 2, ST-E3-RT, 580 EX II.
Plus lots of stuff that just didn't work for me

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Re: Been with Canon for 12 years - wait or jump ship?
« Reply #74 on: October 27, 2017, 03:36:22 AM »