December 17, 2017, 04:42:48 PM

Author Topic: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"  (Read 10414 times)

chrysoberyl

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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2017, 02:11:58 PM »
Thank you for posting.  I was actually thinking about purchasing this camera for astro, if it had an astro tracer mode like the Pentax K-1.

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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2017, 02:11:58 PM »

BigAntTVProductions

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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2017, 02:12:50 PM »
you nailed it also known as the too LAZY too really edit crowd

Sony will never, ever make significant penetration into the every day working pro market for one simple fact:

Their body size, shape and layout is objectively horrible. Unless you have the hands of maybe an 7 year old, this isn't something you want to hold for hours, or can control quickly.

But do you have to?

With a new generation, comes a whole new philosophy of use...

To me, the Sony is the ultimate P-mode camera for the younger crowd raised with smart phone photography. Use the LCD screen and hold it out, not the viewfinder. Let Eye_AF (which is awesome by the way) do all the work for AF. Just brighten or darken with the exposure comp wheel which is the only control reasonably and easily ergonomically accessible. And for a good reason, it's where it is because it is supposed to be the go-to-dial. The design emphasizes the importance of EC in P mode.

Tons of DR for post processing. New generation loves lots of processing. They like that processed, almost fantasy look.

It's another reason why Sony isn't investing much in lighting. Their flash system stinks. Offerings are slim for third party. Most Sony shooters I see aren't the types to be hauling a serious strobe and light modifier. They are more inclined to rely on post-processing.

Sony is immensely popular among the under 25 crowd.
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Tugela

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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2017, 05:05:54 PM »
I've tried both the A9 and A7II, and when Sony makes a camera that I'm happy to hold in my hand for 12+ hours, I might consider one.
Until then, I want to avoid great pain in my right hand and I'll stick with Canon.

I learned decades ago that spec sheets don't make great cameras that are actually useable for heavy duty usage.

When Canon makes a FF camera that is comfortable for my hands, I might consider them. Until then, I will stick with manufacturers who make more sensible sized cameras, such as Sony.

Everyone varies. If you have large hands (like most alpha males do), then Canikon is good for you. If you have smaller hands (such as average males or most women) then they are clumsy and unwieldy. Sony is far from perfect, but it is a lot better than the giant FF cameras that Canikon make.

Personally, for me, the best camera as far as hand fit is concerned, has been Samsung's NX1. It has the perfect dimensions for my grip, it is an extension of my arm. None of Canon or Nikon's enthusiast cameras come close in comfort level when holding them, they all are so big that they feel like they are going to slip out of my hand.

IglooEater

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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2017, 05:55:16 PM »
Sony is immensely popular among the under 25 crowd.

Is the under 25 crowd a big demographic for spending >$3000 on a camera body and hundreds to thousands more on lenses?

I doubt there are any statistics to demonstrate that,  however I think his point is that in 60 years, the sub-25 crowd of today will be the only crowd.

neuroanatomist

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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2017, 06:01:21 PM »
Everyone varies. If you have large hands (like most alpha males do), then Canikon is good for you. If you have smaller hands (such as average males or most women) then they are clumsy and unwieldy. Sony is far from perfect, but it is a lot better than the giant FF cameras that Canikon make.

Personally, for me, the best camera as far as hand fit is concerned, has been Samsung's NX1. It has the perfect dimensions for my grip, it is an extension of my arm. None of Canon or Nikon's enthusiast cameras come close in comfort level when holding them, they all are so big that they feel like they are going to slip out of my hand.

I find an xxD or xD ungripped body somewhat comfortable, except for my little finger which must go under the camera.  A Sony or Canon MILC is decidedly uncomfortable to hold for a significant length of time.  A 1-series is ideal, comfortable, and with a hand strap I can hold one with an f/2.8 zoom all day without discomfort.

Quote from: choosehandsafety.com
Hand sizes for males range from 6.25" to 8.1" with an average hand size of 7.44". Female hand sizes overlap, but are generally somewhat smaller, with an average size of 6.77".

My hand size is 7.4", so pretty much spot-on male average. Sounds like you have small hands, a weak grip, or both.
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ahsanford

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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2017, 06:26:08 PM »
Quote from: choosehandsafety.com
Hand sizes for males range from 6.25" to 8.1" with an average hand size of 7.44". Female hand sizes overlap, but are generally somewhat smaller, with an average size of 6.77".
My hand size is 7.4", so pretty much spot-on male average. Sounds like you have small hands, a weak grip, or both.

I wrote about this relaxing and recalibrating my hands/habits to learn a new grip recently here:
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=33528.msg688331#msg688331

If anyone finds the A7/A9 body a good fit for an f/2.8 zoom or f/1.4 prime for day long shooting, you must have small hands to tune of 2-3 sigma smaller than mean.  There's just no room for your fingers and you need to make an 'iron claw' hold with your index fingers, middle finger and thumb... just like I used to on my T1i with my 24-70 f/2.8L I.  Not fun at all.  Pass.

- A
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 06:31:18 PM by ahsanford »

Don Haines

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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2017, 06:58:33 PM »
Wait a minute..... does this mean that the Sony A7R III really is better than the 5D?

How does it compare to the 5D2?
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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2017, 06:58:33 PM »

9VIII

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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2017, 07:00:35 PM »
Sony is immensely popular among the under 25 crowd.

Is the under 25 crowd a big demographic for spending >$3000 on a camera body and hundreds to thousands more on lenses?

I doubt there are any statistics to demonstrate that,  however I think his point is that in 60 years, the sub-25 crowd of today will be the only crowd.

That’s an interesting concept, but to use myself as an example, I was over 25 when I bought my first EOS body, though I did have two different Canon P&S bodies before that. One Superzoom I was moderately happy with, and a stupid pocket sized camera that just sucked at everything (except being cheap, which is why I bought it after breaking the control pad on my first camera while camping).
I am (almost) entirely glad the P&S market is dead, for what I was trying to do from the start I should have never used anything but EOS (using a high magnification Macro adapter for the Superzoom, which gave impressive results, but was entirely frustrating to use nonetheless because the camera completely lacked manual focus capabilities).

The question remains, what is the average age of the first time ILC buyer? I had no concept of trying to invest in a system with expensive glass until I was older (even though I really could have started much sooner).

There’s probably a significant percentage of people using Sony bodies just to access old lenses, and by “probably” I mean half the people you see talking about Mirrorless at all are using it with old lenses. The value proposition of getting one body with “infinite” mounting options for hundreds of cheap old lenses is hard to resist (I can’t say it wasn’t a factor in my decision to get a Fuji).

That brings us to the question of how many Mirrorless users have any intention of buying new lenses? (I don’t have any Fuji glass.)
What future does that market actually have?

If people buy Canon glass for Sony bodies, are the just as likely to get a Canon body later?

NancyP

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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2017, 07:21:37 PM »
I can see the appeal of being able to use some old lenses on MILCs. I use old lenses sometimes on my 6D classic. M42 and Nikon F mounts work fine on Canon.

As for size, there is a certain personal preference involved, as well as hand size. I have a size 6 to 6 1/2 in latex gloves, used to use smaller cameras, I like the feel of the "standard" 5/6/7D body. Rebels are too tiny, 1Ds are too heavy (and expensive - I just don't "need" a 1D series camera).

9VIII

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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2017, 07:23:24 PM »
Quote from: choosehandsafety.com
Hand sizes for males range from 6.25" to 8.1" with an average hand size of 7.44". Female hand sizes overlap, but are generally somewhat smaller, with an average size of 6.77".
My hand size is 7.4", so pretty much spot-on male average. Sounds like you have small hands, a weak grip, or both.

I wrote about this relaxing and recalibrating my hands/habits to learn a new grip recently here:
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=33528.msg688331#msg688331

If anyone finds the A7/A9 body a good fit for an f/2.8 zoom or f/1.4 prime for day long shooting, you must have small hands to tune of 2-3 sigma smaller than mean.  There's just no room for your fingers and you need to make an 'iron claw' hold with your index fingers, middle finger and thumb... just like I used to on my T1i with my 24-70 f/2.8L I.  Not fun at all.  Pass.

- A

This is something that I’ve always been surprised to hear so many people have so much trouble with.

Starting with the 1100D on a 400f5.6, holding the entire setup by the body is never an option. Even when the camera is facing straight down I never allow the full weight of the lens to pull on the mount.
It was no different when I had a 5D2 (and the mount on the 5D2 already felt sloppy in comparison).

Regardless of whether or not your camera “looks” like the mount is going to rip off with a big lens attached, I can only imagine how much stress is going into the mount using a 70-200f2.8 and gripping just the body. I know I’ve seen people do it lots in videos, but I guarantee even a 1D will be flexing the mount, even the EF mount is just not big enough, and heaven forbid a Nikon user try anything similar.

You hold the lens, and the body just floats on the back. The 40mm Pancake and included Kit lens are my only lenses too small to be used as the primary grip.
The camera grip is mostly just a surface for more buttons and to help you aim.

Don Haines

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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2017, 07:45:51 PM »
Hand sizes for males range from 6.25" to 8.1" with an average hand size of 7.44". Female hand sizes overlap, but are generally somewhat smaller, with an average size of 6.77".

My hand size is 7.4", so pretty much spot-on male average. Sounds like you have small hands, a weak grip, or both.

My hand size is 8.6". A disadvantage when trying to fumble with controls on tiny cameras, but fortunately, (tonight is Halloween), an advantage dressing up as the Frankenstein monster :)
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 08:01:52 PM by Don Haines »
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tiggy@mac.com

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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2017, 08:21:17 PM »
I agree that the form factor and the lens selection prevent me from seriously considering a switch, but I do have to say that they're really knocking down the deal-breakers. A couple years ago it looked insurmountable, but now there are just two or three things that would prevent this from being better than my 5D4...

- Better glass selection and/or adapted glass that performs decently in autofocusing/fps departments
- Form factor that allows for long use with heavy lenses with large hands (I am NOT a fan of the 1dx-type cinder block form factors and weights, but something more normal would be needed)
- Complete service department re-do. Sony is truly awful here. Personal experience both buying from them and - long ago - working for them. I'll also throw into this category a general reliability/toughness issue. My 1DX has thrown from a golf cart onto a metal bar by a 4-year-old (with a 6-pound lens on it), and the resulting dent appears to have affected its function not at all.

Sony just fixed:
- Battery life
- Menu system insanity
- Lack of joystick
- 2 cards
- Menu access during card writing
- FPS

At this pace, I expect they will very soon become a quite reasonable choice.


candc

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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2017, 08:43:37 PM »
I like the size of the a7rii with normal size lenses. Its about the same as the old film cameras like the ae1-p that I started out with. Its the grip that's the problem, there is not enough finger space between it and the lens. I think they should move the mount over to the side more. I've never used an a6000 but I think that's the way they are and I don't see as many complaints about them.

The lens selection is quite good nowadays. Sony has come out with some good ones lately and there are the baitis and loxia lines. I have been using the 12-24 f/4 and 55 f/1.8 the most lately. Most ef canon and sigma lenses work well and I also use my fd lenses. the fd 50 f/1.2l, the fd 80-200 f/4l, fd 28 f/2.8 are very good. You can't beat the Sony for mf lens use. I recently picked up the laowa 15 f/2 and like it a lot. The new 24-105 and 100-400 look great and are on my radar.

Sony is missing supertelephoto fe lenses. I am not sure I would want to be using an Fe camera with those anyway so I think I will stick with canon for that.

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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #27 on: October 31, 2017, 08:43:37 PM »

Orangutan

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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2017, 10:06:53 PM »
Sony just fixed:
- Battery life
- Menu system insanity
- Lack of joystick
- 2 cards
- Menu access during card writing
- FPS

At this pace, I expect they will very soon become a quite reasonable choice.

I hope so, competition is good for us customers.

nonac

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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2017, 10:09:47 PM »
Ive never even held a Sony in my hands, but I can tell from looking at it that it would not work for me ergonomically.  I shoot lots of sports freelance for local newspapers and that tiny little body looks very uncomfortable.  My 1dx is perfect, and I can't shoot my 5d3 or 7d mkII without the grips on them because they feel awkward without them.  I hope when Canon finally comes out with a "Pro" mirrorless, the form factor is close to the same.
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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2017, 10:09:47 PM »