December 15, 2017, 09:01:26 PM

Author Topic: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"  (Read 10194 times)

neuroanatomist

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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2017, 11:17:59 PM »
Starting with the 1100D on a 400f5.6, holding the entire setup by the body is never an option. Even when the camera is facing straight down I never allow the full weight of the lens to pull on the mount.
It was no different when I had a 5D2 (and the mount on the 5D2 already felt sloppy in comparison).

Regardless of whether or not your camera “looks” like the mount is going to rip off with a big lens attached, I can only imagine how much stress is going into the mount using a 70-200f2.8 and gripping just the body. I know I’ve seen people do it lots in videos, but I guarantee even a 1D will be flexing the mount, even the EF mount is just not big enough, and heaven forbid a Nikon user try anything similar.

You hold the lens, and the body just floats on the back. The 40mm Pancake and included Kit lens are my only lenses too small to be used as the primary grip.
The camera grip is mostly just a surface for more buttons and to help you aim.

Although you can only imagine the stress on the mount, no doubt Canon's engineers have tested it and considered it in their design parameters. The lens mount will hold a 70-200/2.8 just fine. Although a lens of that mass does have a tripod collar/foot for balance on a tripod, the body+lens combo is designed to be carried on a neck strap attached to the strap lugs on camera body.  Canon provides no other way to carry the combo (although personally, I sometimes attach a BlackRapid strap to the tripod foot).  Conversely, with heavier supertele lenses like the 300/400 f/2.8 and 500/600 f/4, there are strap lugs on the lens itself and Canon includes a wide strap to carry the lens.  From that, it's clear that the mount is designed to support lenses except the large superteles.
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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2017, 11:17:59 PM »

candc

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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2017, 07:19:33 AM »
Starting with the 1100D on a 400f5.6, holding the entire setup by the body is never an option. Even when the camera is facing straight down I never allow the full weight of the lens to pull on the mount.
It was no different when I had a 5D2 (and the mount on the 5D2 already felt sloppy in comparison).

Regardless of whether or not your camera “looks” like the mount is going to rip off with a big lens attached, I can only imagine how much stress is going into the mount using a 70-200f2.8 and gripping just the body. I know I’ve seen people do it lots in videos, but I guarantee even a 1D will be flexing the mount, even the EF mount is just not big enough, and heaven forbid a Nikon user try anything similar.

You hold the lens, and the body just floats on the back. The 40mm Pancake and included Kit lens are my only lenses too small to be used as the primary grip.
The camera grip is mostly just a surface for more buttons and to help you aim.

Although you can only imagine the stress on the mount, no doubt Canon's engineers have tested it and considered it in their design parameters. The lens mount will hold a 70-200/2.8 just fine. Although a lens of that mass does have a tripod collar/foot for balance on a tripod, the body+lens combo is designed to be carried on a neck strap attached to the strap lugs on camera body.  Canon provides no other way to carry the combo (although personally, I sometimes attach a BlackRapid strap to the tripod foot).  Conversely, with heavier supertele lenses like the 300/400 f/2.8 and 500/600 f/4, there are strap lugs on the lens itself and Canon includes a wide strap to carry the lens.  From that, it's clear that the mount is designed to support lenses except the large superteles.

I've noticed that some lenses seem sloppy on the camera. You would think that's a big deal and cause serious iq problems. I don't recall reading any articles about how mount flexing or a sloppy lens fit affects image output. Maybe its not as big a deal as it seems to be?

Takingshots

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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2017, 09:14:23 AM »
Alot of good reviews at the pre-launch on the Sony A7riii. The pre-orders for the camera at B and H is good. Perhaps adding the battery grip for people with big hands would help. Change the menu system to Canon format and update Metabones to synn fluidly with this camera, perhaps we could force Canon to rethink their strategy on their current bodies.

Mikehit

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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #33 on: November 01, 2017, 09:23:22 AM »
perhaps we could force Canon to rethink their strategy on their current bodies.

in what way?

neuroanatomist

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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #34 on: November 01, 2017, 09:29:33 AM »
perhaps we could force Canon to rethink their strategy on their current bodies.

Why should Canon change a strategy that's manifestly succeeding?

Oh, right...because you want them to make a camera just for you.  Well, good luck with that...  ::)
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JBSF

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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #35 on: November 01, 2017, 09:58:29 AM »
Alot of good reviews at the pre-launch on the Sony A7riii. The pre-orders for the camera at B and H is good. Perhaps adding the battery grip for people with big hands would help. Change the menu system to Canon format and update Metabones to synn fluidly with this camera, perhaps we could force Canon to rethink their strategy on their current bodies.

You mean, let's get Sony to change the A7r3 into a Canon, so that we can convince Canon to change the 5D4 into a Sony.

docsmith

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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #36 on: November 01, 2017, 10:38:27 AM »
I find it interesting that the general assumption is "Good for Sony = Bad for Canon," iplying that Sony's growing market share is eroding Canon's.  But that isn't the case.  Sony really is making inroads, but it seems to be at the expense of other manufacturers and not Canon.

So, if anything, "good for Sony = bad for Nikon, etc"

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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #36 on: November 01, 2017, 10:38:27 AM »

Takingshots

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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #37 on: November 01, 2017, 10:40:21 AM »
perhaps we could force Canon to rethink their strategy on their current bodies.

in what way?
What is lacking in Canon 6D mk ii (no 4K, dynamic range etc) or Canon 5D mk iv (not full 4K, better dynamic range, etc) ..? Listen to consumers' voice and not limiting its capabilities. Sony is now Rank #2 in full frame bodies in sales ... 
« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 10:42:49 AM by Takingshots »

ahsanford

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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #38 on: November 01, 2017, 10:59:49 AM »
Alot of good reviews at the pre-launch on the Sony A7riii. The pre-orders for the camera at B and H is good. Perhaps adding the battery grip for people with big hands would help. Change the menu system to Canon format and update Metabones to synn fluidly with this camera, perhaps we could force Canon to rethink their strategy on their current bodies.

A battery grip would help for hand width, but not for finger length.  Either the grip is too close to the mount for your fingers, or the grip is not thick as it ought to better pull the knuckle portion of your hand further away from the mount.  (It's easier to just point out how close the mount is to the grip.)

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neuroanatomist

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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #39 on: November 01, 2017, 11:04:33 AM »
Sony is now Rank #2 in full frame bodies in sales ...

Yes, they announced that they were #2 in FF ILC sales...in one country (the US), for a two month period (Jan-Feb, 2017).  Do you have any data on global market, or on a more meaningful time frame than two months?  If not, stating that they're #2 on FF ILC sales is overreaching, much as you can look at a broken analog clock at one of two specific times during the day and conclude it is accurate.
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ahsanford

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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #40 on: November 01, 2017, 11:08:06 AM »
Sony is now Rank #2 in full frame bodies in sales ...

Yes, they announced that they were #2 in FF ILC sales...in one country (the US), for a two month period (Jan-Feb, 2017).  Do you have any data on global market, or on a more meaningful time frame than two months?  If not, stating that they're #2 on FF ILC sales is overreaching, much as you can look at a broken analog clock at one of two specific times during the day and conclude it is accurate.

Neuro, don't take this away from Sony.  They've worked so hard to be #1 in the #2 business.

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Mikehit

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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #41 on: November 01, 2017, 11:18:51 AM »
Sony is now Rank #2 in full frame bodies in sales ...

Yes, they announced that they were #2 in FF ILC sales...in one country (the US), for a two month period (Jan-Feb, 2017).  Do you have any data on global market, or on a more meaningful time frame than two months?  If not, stating that they're #2 on FF ILC sales is overreaching, much as you can look at a broken analog clock at one of two specific times during the day and conclude it is accurate.

That 2-month period is also when they had a big discount promotion.

I think we can safely assume Canon know about people wanting 4k etc. And the 5DIV sensor has already been proven to be good enough that the differences to Sony sensors are pretty much meaningless (yes, inferior but not meaningfully so). And Canon have decided that these are not the major factors in the market (for some people, yes, for the majority probably not).

The only way Canon (or any company) will listen is not in people emailing them but people buying competitor products. They don;t care about people who say 'your products are inferior but I will buy them anyway'.

But that has been done to death so many times.

SecureGSM

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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #42 on: November 01, 2017, 11:39:23 AM »
Are you saying that Canon 5D IV dynamic range isn’t wide enough for you?

Check the following image then. It is too large for me to attach but here is the link:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/8NNYvxCULh3lKydY2

This scene has a very wide DR from bright blue sky to dark areas indoor. I have taken 3 bracketed exposures just in case but ended up processing a single 0EV exposure instead. There is plenty of juice and an extra 1stop of DR hidden in 5D IV dual pixel RAW files.


What is lacking in Canon 6D mk ii (no 4K, dynamic range etc) or Canon 5D mk iv (not full 4K, better dynamic range, etc) ..? Listen to consumers' voice and not limiting its capabilities. Sony is now Rank #2 in full frame bodies in sales ...
« Last Edit: November 01, 2017, 11:43:44 AM by SecureGSM »

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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #42 on: November 01, 2017, 11:39:23 AM »

Takingshots

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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #43 on: November 01, 2017, 12:55:51 PM »
Sony is now Rank #2 in full frame bodies in sales ...

Sony is working hard to move up their sales... the trend is there. And now with their A7Riii, it seems to show that they are adding features their customers are calling for (but not everything given in consideration to their A9 mkt).
Someone on the forum stated that Nikon(not Canon) affected by Sony progress(sales). Sony is lacking in lens which Canon excels in and I also love Canon colors.
Will Canon be still number 1?; I hope so.
Only time will tell in this rapid changing tech world ... On a separate note I remember "Rim" once was a force in the business world with their iconic clickety keys... Now under a different name, they have moved into a software company (hardware is made by other company). 
Yes, they announced that they were #2 in FF ILC sales...in one country (the US), for a two month period (Jan-Feb, 2017).  Do you have any data on global market, or on a more meaningful time frame than two months?  If not, stating that they're #2 on FF ILC sales is overreaching, much as you can look at a broken analog clock at one of two specific times during the day and conclude it is accurate.

ahsanford

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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #44 on: November 01, 2017, 01:09:15 PM »
Only time will tell in this rapid changing tech world ... On a separate note I remember "Rim" once was a force in the business world with their iconic clickety keys... Now under a different name, they have moved into a software company (hardware is made by other company). 

Mirrorless is not to SLR what iOS/Android was to Rim.   The notion that Canon may similarly get relegated to the dustbin of history based on nothing more than Sony's perceived innovation momentum is farcical.

If we're talking about computational photography, lightfield stuff, sure -- that's a next-level / someday tech that could fundamentally alter how we take pictures.  But Sony's just offering new cameras at a faster rate than Canon with more 'horsepower' on the spec sheets (at presumably lower margins, higher excess/obsolescence charges, etc.).

In that sense, Sony is fighting a conventional war against a much larger and more savvy adversary.  I wish them luck.

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Re: "Sony A7R III is Pretty Much the New Canon 5D for Pros"
« Reply #44 on: November 01, 2017, 01:09:15 PM »