December 16, 2017, 12:09:35 PM

Author Topic: We May Be Waiting a Little While Longer for a New 50mm Lens [CR2]  (Read 12108 times)

Neopulse

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Re: We May Be Waiting a Little While Longer for a New 50mm Lens [CR2]
« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2017, 07:40:51 PM »
I waited too long for a 50mm f/1.2L to come out since I recently migrated to Canon. I chose in the meanwhile the Tamron 45mm f/1.8 VC as an alternative meanwhile for my 6DII. It's got IS and good resolution detail than the current Canon f/1.4 & 1.8 lenses.

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Re: We May Be Waiting a Little While Longer for a New 50mm Lens [CR2]
« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2017, 07:40:51 PM »

tron

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Re: We May Be Waiting a Little While Longer for a New 50mm Lens [CR2]
« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2017, 07:57:50 PM »
One option would be to go ahead and get the f1.2L, if that lens is something that would actually work for you.  The chances don't look good for anything showing up for about a year, and maybe quite a bit longer than that.  As you point out, if a 50L does show up it is likely to be pretty hefty.  Realistically it doesn't seem as though the 50 you want is likely to show up anytime soon, and you would have the 50L in the meantime.  If the right 50 does appear, then it would be time to sell the f1.2, after having its use in the meantime.

^^ This. ^^

I think I'm getting a 50L refurb and then flipping it if something better comes along.  I don't buy gear and flip it like this -- I make careful targeted pickups to fill needs I have.  But this one small part of my limited armamentarium (5D3 + 8 lenses + T/C + two speedlites +  healthy bit of landscape gear) is actually holding me back photographically. 

My 50 f/1.4 USM is fine for general shooting and the AF is okay in my copy, but I use it f/2.8 or narrower and I miss certain moments when the AF decides to hunt.  I'd like a large aperture instrument around 50mm that I can count on with first party ring USM.

- A
Buying that 50L may be the only way to persuade Canon to announce a new one (immediately afterwards)  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Ah-Keong

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Re: We May Be Waiting a Little While Longer for a New 50mm Lens [CR2]
« Reply #32 on: November 08, 2017, 11:04:52 PM »
How about:

(double gauss) 50mm f/1,2L mark II

or

(retrofocus) 50mm f/1,4L IS USM
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Mac Duderson

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Re: We May Be Waiting a Little While Longer for a New 50mm Lens [CR2]
« Reply #33 on: November 08, 2017, 11:11:37 PM »
I bought 2 Canon 50mm 1.2L's AFTER Sigma released their ART version because I preferred the bokeh of the 1.2L better even thought I knew the Siggy ART was sharper. However last year the AF ribbon broke inside the first one so I bought a SECOND 1.2L not wanting to give up on Canon.  :-[ However just 2 months ago the Aperture broke inside the SECOND 1.2L!!!!!  :-[ :-[ :-[
Ticked off I finally caved and bought the MORE RELIABLE Sigma ART and have had no problems.
Really bothers me when I try to get #1 name brand stuff and they broke more often the a 18-55mm kit lens.
Canon wake up, your being beat by companies that cost 1/3 the cost!  ;) ;D ;) ;D

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: We May Be Waiting a Little While Longer for a New 50mm Lens [CR2]
« Reply #34 on: November 08, 2017, 11:12:14 PM »
I have the Canon 50mm f/2.5 Macro.  I like it better than the other consumer grade 50's even though its not a fast lens.  Of course, I also get 50mm with my 24-70L so I don't really miss one.  I have a Nikon 55mm Micro lens adapted to Canon as well as a Olympus, Minolta, and some other M43 lenses.

ahsanford

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Re: We May Be Waiting a Little While Longer for a New 50mm Lens [CR2]
« Reply #35 on: November 08, 2017, 11:13:49 PM »
How about:

(double gauss) 50mm f/1,2L mark II

or

(retrofocus) 50mm f/1,4L IS USM

I'm not certain the 50mm FL is going to 'pull an 85' with the f/1.2L and f/1.4L IS being sold side by side.  But a retrofocus resolution champ in the 50mm space would seem inevitable for Canon, and I don't see such a lens being a non-L.  So your theory is entirely plausible.

- A

JonAustin

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Re: We May Be Waiting a Little While Longer for a New 50mm Lens [CR2]
« Reply #36 on: November 08, 2017, 11:40:51 PM »
I have the Canon 50mm f/2.5 Macro.  I like it better than the other consumer grade 50's even though its not a fast lens.  Of course, I also get 50mm with my 24-70L so I don't really miss one.

I have the 50mm f/2.5 compact macro, as well, and it suited me for this FL for more than 10 years, but it's AF began failing about a year ago, and I don't think it's worth the money to get it fixed, if Canon even still provides service for it. It still works in MF mode, of course. My only other lens is this range is the original 24-105/4L IS, so I would really love to see Canon step up and fill this (to me) glaringly obvious deficiency in its product line.
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Re: We May Be Waiting a Little While Longer for a New 50mm Lens [CR2]
« Reply #36 on: November 08, 2017, 11:40:51 PM »

Antono Refa

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Re: We May Be Waiting a Little While Longer for a New 50mm Lens [CR2]
« Reply #37 on: November 08, 2017, 11:51:32 PM »

I think we must remember that Canon is a business and they aim to make money. I realise that a fast high quality 50 is exciting to those of us who read here but I suspect Canon's research probably finds little interest, or at least not enough for them to be making it a priority.

Interesting that...

1) Zeiss did their research, and found there's a market for a 55mm f/1.4 Otus, and an 85mm f/1.4 Otus.

2) Sigma did their research, and found there's a market for a 50mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art, and an 85mm f/1.4 Art.

3) Tamron did their research, and found there's a market for an SP 45mm f/1.8 Di VC USD, and an SP 85mm f/1.8 Di VC USD.

4) Nikon did their research, and found there's a market for a 58mm f/1.4G AF-S, and an 85mm f/1.4G AF-S.

5) Canon did their research, and found there's absolutely no market for a 50mm f/1.4[L] IS USM. The 85mm f/1.4L IS USM does have a market, but it's whole different story.

The market isn't just people who would buy the lens within the first year. It's for people who want to buy OEM now, or their first camera next year, or switch from Nikon the year after that.

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: We May Be Waiting a Little While Longer for a New 50mm Lens [CR2]
« Reply #38 on: November 09, 2017, 12:43:06 AM »

I think we must remember that Canon is a business and they aim to make money. I realise that a fast high quality 50 is exciting to those of us who read here but I suspect Canon's research probably finds little interest, or at least not enough for them to be making it a priority.

Interesting that...

1) Zeiss did their research, and found there's a market for a 55mm f/1.4 Otus, and an 85mm f/1.4 Otus.

2) Sigma did their research, and found there's a market for a 50mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art, and an 85mm f/1.4 Art.

3) Tamron did their research, and found there's a market for an SP 45mm f/1.8 Di VC USD, and an SP 85mm f/1.8 Di VC USD.

4) Nikon did their research, and found there's a market for a 58mm f/1.4G AF-S, and an 85mm f/1.4G AF-S.

5) Canon did their research, and found there's absolutely no market for a 50mm f/1.4[L] IS USM. The 85mm f/1.4L IS USM does have a market, but it's whole different story.

The market isn't just people who would buy the lens within the first year. It's for people who want to buy OEM now, or their first camera next year, or switch from Nikon the year after that.

Where did you find information about Canon's market research?  Can you share it?


Canon is very good at market research and has figures for their sales, and likely for sales of others.  You can purchase the information which is collected from major retailers around the world.  Everyone has it, its what they do with it that determines how successful their company is.

Low cost lenses will sell, even if AF is erratic, many buy the Sigma lens due to price for a otherwise excellent lens.  Tamron is the largest lens manufacturer in the world, and can churn out very large numbers of low cost lenses, and their autofocus is fairly reliable, but often slow.  They are a force to be reckoned with.  You can get the lens for $400 at B&H.  Go for it if you think its so good.  Read the reviews though first, there is a reason its discounted by $200.  https://www.lenstip.com/454.11-Lens_review-Tamron_SP_45_mm_f_1.8_Di_VC_USD_Summary.html


Nikon is closing factories and pulling out of Brazil, do you really think their decisions based on their market research is that good?  How many of those $1600 lenses are selling?  Making poor decisions can cause some severe problems to sales.  Nikon has been making a lot of them.  Zeiss sells relatively few lenses, they subcontract them out.  They are not a factor in competing with someone who wants to sell 100,000 to 1,000,000 a year.

I can only guess, but Canon probably sees buyers wanting more zoom lenses, and see few buyers going for expensive 50mm prime lenses.  Buyers are price sensitive, and go for the lowest cost item that does the job.  The 50mm f/1.8 fits the need for a low cost lens.  It certainly is not a high performance lens, but that likely is not missed by the huge numbers of people who buy one.

Its possible to turn out a really good consumer grade f/1.8 lens for 4X the price and kill sales, so their option is to create a high end lens that sells in lower quantities, which raises the price and becomes a even lower volume product.  I have no interest in a $1500 50mm lens.  People seem to think that such a new lens will be cheap, but it will cost about the same as the 85mm f/1.4 L , and the Nikon 58mm f/1.4G IS.

mb66energy

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Re: We May Be Waiting a Little While Longer for a New 50mm Lens [CR2]
« Reply #39 on: November 09, 2017, 01:19:28 AM »
My question is this:  for all those of you that know what I'd ideally want -- a compact (and not necessarily face-meltingly sharp) 50 f/1.4 IS USM like the 35 f/2 IS -- what happens if the next new 50 is an L like the 85 f/1.4L IS?

Such a lens will likely be too big for me.  I want a compact double gauss lens.

Seeing as it might be last new 50 we get for 5-10 years after that f/1.4L IS is announced, do I cave and get the f/1.2L because it's still relatively compact?  Do I except all of it's flaws (finnicky AF, non-flat field, really a specialty tool for wide open shooting) or wait even longer for a non-L replacement?

- A

Count me in - we discussed it in another thread some days ago. I really liked the FD 1.4 50 S.S.C. chrome ring lens which gave contrasty and sharp images - at least with Kodachrome 25 - in the old film days. It performs very well from f/2.8 on the EOS M.

It is not stabilized and has no AF but maybe a 2nd hand S*** S7ii would be a good companion with sensor IS (if that works with such a lens) or I will give it to lens doctor in UK for a FD - EOS conversion. Well: Without IS and AF but VERY compact and light. And I own this lens for ca. 3 decades ... I like anachronisms.
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Ah-Keong

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Re: We May Be Waiting a Little While Longer for a New 50mm Lens [CR2]
« Reply #40 on: November 09, 2017, 01:57:45 AM »
How about:

(double gauss) 50mm f/1,2L mark II

or

(retrofocus) 50mm f/1,4L IS USM

I'm not certain the 50mm FL is going to 'pull an 85' with the f/1.2L and f/1.4L IS being sold side by side.  But a retrofocus resolution champ in the 50mm space would seem inevitable for Canon, and I don't see such a lens being a non-L.  So your theory is entirely plausible.

- A

I love the 50mm f/1,2L (double gauss) optics. It has the magical 3D signature pop that current modern optics lack.
I would believe an update to the AF mechanism would bring the AF speed, accuracy, etc to date with modern bodies (6D2, 5D4, 1DX2, etc)

The current state of the art (retrofocus) optics is kinda clinical and sharpness all over. As the market has demand for such optics, the 50mm f/1,4L IS USM like the upcoming 85mm f/1,4L IS USM would be meeting the demand in this market area...

Choose your Poison(s)!  :P


 
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Maximilian

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Re: We May Be Waiting a Little While Longer for a New 50mm Lens [CR2]
« Reply #41 on: November 09, 2017, 02:12:10 AM »
"Meh!" to this information.

I already hear the keen cry of anguish from one CR member, in particular.

It's cool.  I'm fine.  I'm just going to print this post out and stare at it quietly while playing The Cure in my room.

- A
+1 to this decision and +1 to that taste of music  8)

sometimes you have to close your eyes to see properly.

Fleetie

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Re: We May Be Waiting a Little While Longer for a New 50mm Lens [CR2]
« Reply #42 on: November 09, 2017, 02:25:51 AM »
I already hear the keen cry of anguish from one CR member, in particular.

It's cool.  I'm fine.  I'm just going to print this post out and stare at it quietly while playing The Cure in my room.

- A

Pornography because there's no 50 in sight or The Top because everything is spinning and confusing? (The Top is my favorite)

fwiw to the uninitiated, 'Pornography' is the name of an album.
"Pornography" is their best album, IMO. It's the only Cure album I still actually listen to.
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Re: We May Be Waiting a Little While Longer for a New 50mm Lens [CR2]
« Reply #42 on: November 09, 2017, 02:25:51 AM »

Antono Refa

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Re: We May Be Waiting a Little While Longer for a New 50mm Lens [CR2]
« Reply #43 on: November 09, 2017, 12:17:00 PM »

I think we must remember that Canon is a business and they aim to make money. I realise that a fast high quality 50 is exciting to those of us who read here but I suspect Canon's research probably finds little interest, or at least not enough for them to be making it a priority.

Interesting that...

1) Zeiss did their research, and found there's a market for a 55mm f/1.4 Otus, and an 85mm f/1.4 Otus.

2) Sigma did their research, and found there's a market for a 50mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art, and an 85mm f/1.4 Art.

3) Tamron did their research, and found there's a market for an SP 45mm f/1.8 Di VC USD, and an SP 85mm f/1.8 Di VC USD.

4) Nikon did their research, and found there's a market for a 58mm f/1.4G AF-S, and an 85mm f/1.4G AF-S.

5) Canon did their research, and found there's absolutely no market for a 50mm f/1.4[L] IS USM. The 85mm f/1.4L IS USM does have a market, but it's whole different story.

The market isn't just people who would buy the lens within the first year. It's for people who want to buy OEM now, or their first camera next year, or switch from Nikon the year after that.

Where did you find information about Canon's market research?  Can you share it?

I was cynical, of course I don't have that info.

Canon is very good at market research and has figures for their sales, and likely for sales of others.

<snip>

Nikon is closing factories and pulling out of Brazil, do you really think their decisions based on their market research is that good?

<cynicism>Of course Canon's market research is impeccable, while Nikon makes mistakes. Closing factories and pulling out of markets has to do with making the wrong lenses, and couldn't possibly have to do with shrinking camera & lens sales.</cynicism>

My point was it's unlikely four different companies erred on their estimating a new 50mm f/1.4 would make a profit, while Canon nailed it wouldn't. Possible, but unlikely.

Your claims regarding an expensive 50mm f/1.4 could have been applied to the Canon EF 85mm f/1.4L IS USM, up until it was announced.

ahsanford

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Re: We May Be Waiting a Little While Longer for a New 50mm Lens [CR2]
« Reply #44 on: November 09, 2017, 12:33:21 PM »
I fully concede Canon is wiser at what products to offer and what products not to offer, but consider:

  • I heard a comment about 'people prefer zooms' which is fine, but let's not forget why these lenses sing -- small DOF, subject isolation, bokeh, etc. and a 24-70 2.8 is dramatically less effective at this than at f/1.4.

  • A 50 f/1.4 is a staple general purpose instrument like a 35 f/1.4 or 24-70 2.8 is.  It's not some exotic prestige piece like  20 f/1.4 or 105 f/1.4, it is a bread and butter tool.  Sure, a 50 f/1.8 is fine in a pinch but Canon's is stripped for features (no distance scale, FBW, slow focusing, not a common filter diameter, etc.).  And sure, the 50 f/1.2 is awesome wide open for centered subjects, but it's a specialty / non-general-purpose lens, IMHO -- you have to wrestle with that non-planar field, it's only sharp in the center, the AF is finnicky, etc.

  • As others have pointed out, everyone else prioritizes this sort of product as being important.  This isn't Canon being shrewd, this is Canon being stubborn.  We just got 3 new T/S lenses very few people were asking for and we can't get an all-purpose 50 prime?!

Honestly:  find me a bigger sucking belly wound in Canon's EF portfolio where photographers are SOL with a staple need like this.  I don't think it exists. 

- A

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Re: We May Be Waiting a Little While Longer for a New 50mm Lens [CR2]
« Reply #44 on: November 09, 2017, 12:33:21 PM »