December 10, 2017, 11:04:45 PM

Author Topic: A7RIII from Sony: Dpreview is impressed by Pixel shift  (Read 5113 times)

xps

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A7RIII from Sony: Dpreview is impressed by Pixel shift
« on: November 12, 2017, 01:27:38 PM »
As this body is still not available, posted in this subforum.

Dpreview seems to be impressed by this feature....

https://www.dpreview.com/news/5645755619/sony-a7r-iii-pixel-shift-lifts-a-veil-off-your-landscapes

If you modify the studio scene with the 5DSR, the pixelshift feature seems to work quite well.
Not in every area of the picture (seems to create CAs)
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 01:32:00 PM by xps »

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A7RIII from Sony: Dpreview is impressed by Pixel shift
« on: November 12, 2017, 01:27:38 PM »

raptor3x

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Re: A7RIII from Sony: Dpreview is impressed by Pixel shift
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2017, 02:02:09 PM »
It looks good, although it seems to my eye that Pentax gets the best results out of all the pixel shift implementations as the moment, at least for the studio test scene as presented.
Bodies: X-T1, E-M1, E-M1ii, Pen-F Lenses:  µ.Z 7-14 2.8, µ.Z 12-40 2.8, µ.Z 17 1.8, µ.Z 25 1.2, X 18-55 2.8-4, µ.Z 40-150 2.8, µ.Z 60 2.8, µ.Z 75 1.8, Z 150 2.0, µ.Z 300 4.0

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: A7RIII from Sony: Dpreview is impressed by Pixel shift
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2017, 02:20:29 PM »
It is likely useful for still life photos, its my impression that any movement spoils the effect. 

That's a example of how something like the still scene at DPR could mislead less experienced photographers into believing that all their photos will benefit. 

I know that some, including me, have a camera support that's bolted down (mine is literally bolted down)  In that case I could benefit, except that most of my product photos are drastically downsized for the internet, so my support is bolted down for convenience and to prevent accidental bumps rather than ultra high resolution.

9VIII

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Re: A7RIII from Sony: Dpreview is impressed by Pixel shift
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2017, 04:26:23 PM »
Even Tony Northrup said pixel shift was effectively useless for landscape.
The fastest it can take the four shots is about four seconds. Your effective motion blur is the same as a four second exposure.
Trees, waves, traffic, clouds, all move too much for it to be effective, and good luck getting a human being to sit still enough.

This feature is about as useful as Canon’s dual pixel focus shift.

privatebydesign

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Re: A7RIII from Sony: Dpreview is impressed by Pixel shift
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2017, 07:05:46 PM »
Even Tony Northrup said pixel shift was effectively useless for landscape.
The fastest it can take the four shots is about four seconds. Your effective motion blur is the same as a four second exposure.
Trees, waves, traffic, clouds, all move too much for it to be effective, and good luck getting a human being to sit still enough.

This feature is about as useful as Canon’s dual pixel focus shift.

At least the Canon version has an extra stop of DR in it and is taken at the some exposure, it just takes some work to get it out of the RAW file. But if you do you have wider DR from the 5D MkIV than the Nikon D850 and the Sony A7RIII.
Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

neuroanatomist

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Re: A7RIII from Sony: Dpreview is impressed by Pixel shift
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2017, 07:23:53 PM »
I've shot static landscape scenes.  Maybe two of them.  Things move, which renders this feature effectively useless outside of the studio.

I'm unsurprised that Rishi loves it, his nose is that special Sony shade of brown.

Having said that, I've used pixel shift in photomicroscopy for a long time.  It was quite innovative when implemented on my Zeiss AxioCam...around the turn of the century.
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9VIII

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Re: A7RIII from Sony: Dpreview is impressed by Pixel shift
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2017, 07:45:00 PM »
The really funny thing is you could just take a four shot burst in a fraction of a second and use regular multi-shot noise reduction to get most of the same benefit with an order of magnitude less movement in the environment.

I’m actually really surprised that cameras don’t commonly have a super quick automatic bracketing mode.
I’ve seen auto bracketing modes, but they never seem to be very fast. Any 8fps burst camera today should be able to take four shots in half a second (with a different exposure for each frame).

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Re: A7RIII from Sony: Dpreview is impressed by Pixel shift
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2017, 07:45:00 PM »

privatebydesign

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Re: A7RIII from Sony: Dpreview is impressed by Pixel shift
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2017, 07:56:30 PM »
The really funny thing is you could just take a four shot burst in a fraction of a second and use regular multi-shot noise reduction to get most of the same benefit with an order of magnitude less movement in the environment.

I’m actually really surprised that cameras don’t commonly have a super quick automatic bracketing mode.
I’ve seen auto bracketing modes, but they never seem to be very fast. Any 8fps burst camera today should be able to take four shots in half a second (with a different exposure for each frame).

I've commented before that has been an unexpected (but obvious with hindsight) benefit of the 1DX MkII over my old 1Ds MkIII's. Shooting brackets fast helps me a lot in post, the less movement of foliage the easier time the software has.

The 1DX MkII can shoot five shot brackets in well under half a second.
Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

9VIII

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Re: A7RIII from Sony: Dpreview is impressed by Pixel shift
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2017, 09:00:12 PM »
The really funny thing is you could just take a four shot burst in a fraction of a second and use regular multi-shot noise reduction to get most of the same benefit with an order of magnitude less movement in the environment.

I’m actually really surprised that cameras don’t commonly have a super quick automatic bracketing mode.
I’ve seen auto bracketing modes, but they never seem to be very fast. Any 8fps burst camera today should be able to take four shots in half a second (with a different exposure for each frame).

I've commented before that has been an unexpected (but obvious with hindsight) benefit of the 1DX MkII over my old 1Ds MkIII's. Shooting brackets fast helps me a lot in post, the less movement of foliage the easier time the software has.

The 1DX MkII can shoot five shot brackets in well under half a second.

Does it actually progressively adjust the shutter speed at maximum burst or do you just spin the command dial while holding down the shutter release?

privatebydesign

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Re: A7RIII from Sony: Dpreview is impressed by Pixel shift
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2017, 09:09:08 PM »
The really funny thing is you could just take a four shot burst in a fraction of a second and use regular multi-shot noise reduction to get most of the same benefit with an order of magnitude less movement in the environment.

I’m actually really surprised that cameras don’t commonly have a super quick automatic bracketing mode.
I’ve seen auto bracketing modes, but they never seem to be very fast. Any 8fps burst camera today should be able to take four shots in half a second (with a different exposure for each frame).

I've commented before that has been an unexpected (but obvious with hindsight) benefit of the 1DX MkII over my old 1Ds MkIII's. Shooting brackets fast helps me a lot in post, the less movement of foliage the easier time the software has.

The 1DX MkII can shoot five shot brackets in well under half a second.

Does it actually progressively adjust the shutter speed at maximum burst or do you just spin the command dial while holding down the shutter release?

If you are in Av it changes shutter speed, if you are in Tv it changes the aperture. If you put safety shift on and set shutter speed preferences it will adjust ISO.

I use it mostly in Av and have it vary shutter speed.

I have also done 9 frame high speed shots with the same settings and averaged them for the combination of higher shutter speed and comparatively low noise, I just haven't had an actual reason to do that on a paid shoot though.
Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

weixing

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Re: A7RIII from Sony: Dpreview is impressed by Pixel shift
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2017, 11:14:44 PM »
The really funny thing is you could just take a four shot burst in a fraction of a second and use regular multi-shot noise reduction to get most of the same benefit with an order of magnitude less movement in the environment.

I’m actually really surprised that cameras don’t commonly have a super quick automatic bracketing mode.
I’ve seen auto bracketing modes, but they never seem to be very fast. Any 8fps burst camera today should be able to take four shots in half a second (with a different exposure for each frame).

I've commented before that has been an unexpected (but obvious with hindsight) benefit of the 1DX MkII over my old 1Ds MkIII's. Shooting brackets fast helps me a lot in post, the less movement of foliage the easier time the software has.

The 1DX MkII can shoot five shot brackets in well under half a second.

Does it actually progressively adjust the shutter speed at maximum burst or do you just spin the command dial while holding down the shutter release?

If you are in Av it changes shutter speed, if you are in Tv it changes the aperture. If you put safety shift on and set shutter speed preferences it will adjust ISO.

I use it mostly in Av and have it vary shutter speed.

I have also done 9 frame high speed shots with the same settings and averaged them for the combination of higher shutter speed and comparatively low noise, I just haven't had an actual reason to do that on a paid shoot though.
Hi,
    I thought this is a common feature... just set AEB, high-speed continuous mode and press and hold the shutter button. The camera will auto stop shooting once the bracketing shots is completed. The max number of bracket shots available will be depend on the number your camera can support... M5 is 3 and 7D2 is 7.

    Have a nice day.

privatebydesign

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Re: A7RIII from Sony: Dpreview is impressed by Pixel shift
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2017, 11:18:15 PM »

Hi,
    I thought this is a common feature... just set AEB, high-speed continuous mode and press and hold the shutter button. The camera will auto stop shooting once the bracketing shots is completed. The max number of bracket shots available will be depend on the number your camera can support... M5 is 3 and 7D2 is 7.

    Have a nice day.

Yes it is, not sure why 9VII is new to it. Just that the higher burst rates of newer cameras has an advantage when using it.
Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

raptor3x

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Re: A7RIII from Sony: Dpreview is impressed by Pixel shift
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2017, 12:06:22 AM »
I've shot static landscape scenes.  Maybe two of them.  Things move, which renders this feature effectively useless outside of the studio.

I'm unsurprised that Rishi loves it, his nose is that special Sony shade of brown.

Having said that, I've used pixel shift in photomicroscopy for a long time.  It was quite innovative when implemented on my Zeiss AxioCam...around the turn of the century.

I find it kind of funny that Rishi writes:

Quote from: DPReview
What's more: Sony's recent lenses have enough resolving power to take advantage of this mode. You see the resolution increase at least partly because the lenses have enough resolving power to take advantage of the extra pixel-level sampling (theoretically, increasing the resolution of any part of the imaging chain has the potential to increase sharpness, but your lens needs to resolve enough to begin with to see the dramatic differences we're seeing here). You can't always take that for granted (see the limited increase in resolution of Pixel Shift modes on Micro Four Thirds cameras in our studio scene, for example).

even though the m43 pixel shift models show a much more dramatic increase in resolution than what Sony is showing.  They don't reach quite the same final resolution as Pentax or Sony since they're starting with a much lower resolution sensor but the increase is much more noticeable.
Bodies: X-T1, E-M1, E-M1ii, Pen-F Lenses:  µ.Z 7-14 2.8, µ.Z 12-40 2.8, µ.Z 17 1.8, µ.Z 25 1.2, X 18-55 2.8-4, µ.Z 40-150 2.8, µ.Z 60 2.8, µ.Z 75 1.8, Z 150 2.0, µ.Z 300 4.0

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Re: A7RIII from Sony: Dpreview is impressed by Pixel shift
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2017, 12:06:22 AM »

moreorless

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Re: A7RIII from Sony: Dpreview is impressed by Pixel shift
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2017, 12:59:58 AM »
I notice the "landscape" chosen was actually a cityscape with limited potential for movement, DPR generally do seem rather suspect for me when Sony products are involved these days.

Quote from: raptor3x
even though the m43 pixel shift models show a much more dramatic increase in resolution than what Sony is showing.  They don't reach quite the same final resolution as Pentax or Sony since they're starting with a much lower resolution sensor but the increase is much more noticeable.

Given that there does seem to be a lot more potential for resolution increases in m43 optics it does seem a little strange there sticking with 20 MP. I spose you could argue that the higher end sales have naturally tended to move towards action shooting with the size saving on optics it offers where lower resolution aids FPS but there seems plenty of room to up things to say 28-30 MP without getting into diminishing returns.

« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 01:06:57 AM by moreorless »

9VIII

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Re: A7RIII from Sony: Dpreview is impressed by Pixel shift
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2017, 06:25:54 AM »

Hi,
    I thought this is a common feature... just set AEB, high-speed continuous mode and press and hold the shutter button. The camera will auto stop shooting once the bracketing shots is completed. The max number of bracket shots available will be depend on the number your camera can support... M5 is 3 and 7D2 is 7.

    Have a nice day.

Yes it is, not sure why 9VII is new to it. Just that the higher burst rates of newer cameras has an advantage when using it.

Personal experience is limited to the 5D2 at best, and video reviews have never demonstrated this feature (at least not the usual “TCS/Kai/Fro/Northrup” type).
(Actually I do seem to remember seeing a demonstration, but the impressoin given was that the feature was mostly useless, thus my surprise when suddenly I hear someone say they’re reasonably satisfied with it.)
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 06:31:39 AM by 9VIII »

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Re: A7RIII from Sony: Dpreview is impressed by Pixel shift
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2017, 06:25:54 AM »