November 23, 2017, 08:30:16 AM

Author Topic: A7RIII from Sony: Dpreview is impressed by Pixel shift  (Read 4092 times)

Don Haines

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Re: A7RIII from Sony: Dpreview is impressed by Pixel shift
« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2017, 10:20:08 PM »
It really doesn't matter what the specific topic is regarding this camera or Sony in general, the people here will be negative, dismissive and critical. Are we to believe that NOTHING about this camera is good? That it does not have a single feature or capability that can be recognized as excellent?

Not everyone in the forum bashes everything.....

And on the subject of pixel shifting sensors.... Olympus does it.... Panasonic does it.... and now Sony does it.... it must work on mirrorless cameras, or why does everyone seem to have it?

Canon and Nikon are conservative companies.... They are slow to innovate, but what they have is usually rock solid. That is why a particular type of people gravitate towards those cameras..... Companies like Olympus and Panasonic (and now Sony) are more innovative and you see new features faster, but at a cost of stability. That is why the latest gadget type of people gravitate towards them.....

You can have stability, or you can innovative, but not both together.... unless you put a foot in both camps.

Personally, my ideal setup would be a 5D4 and lots of FF lenses for when quality and reliability is the answer, and an E-M1 MarkII for portability and playing around.....
The best camera is the one in your hands

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Re: A7RIII from Sony: Dpreview is impressed by Pixel shift
« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2017, 10:20:08 PM »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: A7RIII from Sony: Dpreview is impressed by Pixel shift
« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2017, 12:36:45 AM »
It really doesn't matter what the specific topic is regarding this camera or Sony in general, the people here will be negative, dismissive and critical. Are we to believe that NOTHING about this camera is good? That it does not have a single feature or capability that can be recognized as excellent?

Not everyone in the forum bashes everything.....

And on the subject of pixel shifting sensors.... Olympus does it.... Panasonic does it.... and now Sony does it.... it must work on mirrorless cameras, or why does everyone seem to have it?

Canon and Nikon are conservative companies.... They are slow to innovate, but what they have is usually rock solid. That is why a particular type of people gravitate towards those cameras..... Companies like Olympus and Panasonic (and now Sony) are more innovative and you see new features faster, but at a cost of stability. That is why the latest gadget type of people gravitate towards them.....

You can have stability, or you can innovative, but not both together.... unless you put a foot in both camps.

Personally, my ideal setup would be a 5D4 and lots of FF lenses for when quality and reliability is the answer, and an E-M1 MarkII for portability and playing around.....

Beware, just because a camera advertises a feature does not tell you if its very useful.  How useful to forum members is ALO?  Some may find it useful, but I bet most turn it off.  Dual Pixel RAW sounds good, and sells cameras, but how useful is it really?

Pixel shift works, but the circumstances are so limited that its only for specialized shooting.  I looked at the test images, and the buildings that don't move are definitely and noticeably sharper.  Even the trees looked sharper.  The clouds that are, of course moving are blurred.  So there is a benefit when you have a subject that does not move, and, of course, your camera needs to be very stable as well.  It can be a benefit in that people who are moving will be blurred and unrecognizable which you would likely want if you are selling the images. 

From the image they posted, which studiously avoids things that move, like people, automobiles, water, and the like, I get the idea that there would be very few images that would benefit, but for those who are interested in landscape photography and have subjects that don't move, You can definitely get technically sharper images.  Just how many of them would be interesting is another matter.  What would a waterfall look like?

Normalnorm

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Re: A7RIII from Sony: Dpreview is impressed by Pixel shift
« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2017, 12:56:45 AM »
I shoot architectural interiors primarily and at first this seemed to have some promise. However contemporary fashion is to include humans and other elements to show use of the space.
This will not work.

What is useful is that my clients would never see the additional res so its absence is not missed.

SecureGSM

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Re: A7RIII from Sony: Dpreview is impressed by Pixel shift
« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2017, 02:30:39 AM »
Absolutely. One can open DPRAW file in Rawdigger and then export each individual subframe (A and B) as a separate TIFF file. Then blend these two TIFF files in Lightroom or any other HDR capable editor. This option is available in Rawdigger as of late August 2016. I am unsure why Adobe and others have not utilised this feature yet. It seems only logical to me but what do I know.


yeah? how about an extra stop of DR that is hidden in the subrame B of the Canon DPRAW file? still worthless ?

https://www.rawdigger.com/howtouse/Canon-dual-pixel-technology

https://www.rawdigger.com/howtouse/canon-dual-pixel-mode-highlights-are-there





.. I would not equate this to the 5D4's dual pixel raw. Dual pixel raw is truly worthless. Pixel shift is orders of magnitude more useful and practical.

Do you know if anyone has written anything to capitalize on this yet?  The potential is there but last I had checked there was no way to realize it.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2017, 02:55:09 AM by SecureGSM »

Don Haines

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Re: A7RIII from Sony: Dpreview is impressed by Pixel shift
« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2017, 07:21:16 AM »
One problem with FF sensor stabilisation is the momentum from the size of the sensor - it will be much easier for Panasonic/Olympus to change direction of the sensor because the sensor is one quarter the size.

No fanboy-ism, no shills needed - just plain old common sense and an understanding of high school physics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nZvfSx7ZsU
Sony takes four seconds to do what Pentax does in a little over one second.

Sony's implementation is just bad, it's inferior to the competition. Anyone who doesn't point out that flaw is clearly a marketing agent for Sony.

If Rishi Sanyal isn't a shill then he's just the biggest sucker on the internet.
On the Olympus E-M1, it takes a shade under a second to take the 8 pictures, but it takes another 2 or 3 seconds to process them.... could that be what the Sony does?
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traveller

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Re: A7RIII from Sony: Dpreview is impressed by Pixel shift
« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2017, 08:34:32 AM »
One problem with FF sensor stabilisation is the momentum from the size of the sensor - it will be much easier for Panasonic/Olympus to change direction of the sensor because the sensor is one quarter the size.

No fanboy-ism, no shills needed - just plain old common sense and an understanding of high school physics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nZvfSx7ZsU
Sony takes four seconds to do what Pentax does in a little over one second.

Sony's implementation is just bad, it's inferior to the competition. Anyone who doesn't point out that flaw is clearly a marketing agent for Sony.

If Rishi Sanyal isn't a shill then he's just the biggest sucker on the internet.
On the Olympus E-M1, it takes a shade under a second to take the 8 pictures, but it takes another 2 or 3 seconds to process them.... could that be what the Sony does?

The A7RIII doesn't process the images at all, you have to import the files into Sony's "Imaging Edge" software.

Don Haines

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Re: A7RIII from Sony: Dpreview is impressed by Pixel shift
« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2017, 09:56:08 AM »
One problem with FF sensor stabilisation is the momentum from the size of the sensor - it will be much easier for Panasonic/Olympus to change direction of the sensor because the sensor is one quarter the size.

No fanboy-ism, no shills needed - just plain old common sense and an understanding of high school physics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nZvfSx7ZsU
Sony takes four seconds to do what Pentax does in a little over one second.

Sony's implementation is just bad, it's inferior to the competition. Anyone who doesn't point out that flaw is clearly a marketing agent for Sony.

If Rishi Sanyal isn't a shill then he's just the biggest sucker on the internet.
On the Olympus E-M1, it takes a shade under a second to take the 8 pictures, but it takes another 2 or 3 seconds to process them.... could that be what the Sony does?

The A7RIII doesn't process the images at all, you have to import the files into Sony's "Imaging Edge" software.

So it takes 4 times longer for the camera to take the pictures and then you have to export them and run them through special software?  "innovative"......
The best camera is the one in your hands

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Re: A7RIII from Sony: Dpreview is impressed by Pixel shift
« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2017, 09:56:08 AM »

9VIII

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Re: A7RIII from Sony: Dpreview is impressed by Pixel shift
« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2017, 11:05:08 AM »
One problem with FF sensor stabilisation is the momentum from the size of the sensor - it will be much easier for Panasonic/Olympus to change direction of the sensor because the sensor is one quarter the size.

No fanboy-ism, no shills needed - just plain old common sense and an understanding of high school physics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nZvfSx7ZsU
Sony takes four seconds to do what Pentax does in a little over one second.

Sony's implementation is just bad, it's inferior to the competition. Anyone who doesn't point out that flaw is clearly a marketing agent for Sony.

If Rishi Sanyal isn't a shill then he's just the biggest sucker on the internet.
On the Olympus E-M1, it takes a shade under a second to take the 8 pictures, but it takes another 2 or 3 seconds to process them.... could that be what the Sony does?

The A7RIII doesn't process the images at all, you have to import the files into Sony's "Imaging Edge" software.

So it takes 4 times longer for the camera to take the pictures and then you have to export them and run them through special software?  "innovative"......

It really seems like the limitation is arbitrary, why they allow people to set more time between capturing frames is beyond me. This suggests it’s a simple issue of software designers doing weird things just because they can.

Don Haines

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Re: A7RIII from Sony: Dpreview is impressed by Pixel shift
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2017, 11:36:37 AM »
One problem with FF sensor stabilisation is the momentum from the size of the sensor - it will be much easier for Panasonic/Olympus to change direction of the sensor because the sensor is one quarter the size.

No fanboy-ism, no shills needed - just plain old common sense and an understanding of high school physics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nZvfSx7ZsU
Sony takes four seconds to do what Pentax does in a little over one second.

Sony's implementation is just bad, it's inferior to the competition. Anyone who doesn't point out that flaw is clearly a marketing agent for Sony.

If Rishi Sanyal isn't a shill then he's just the biggest sucker on the internet.
On the Olympus E-M1, it takes a shade under a second to take the 8 pictures, but it takes another 2 or 3 seconds to process them.... could that be what the Sony does?

The A7RIII doesn't process the images at all, you have to import the files into Sony's "Imaging Edge" software.

So it takes 4 times longer for the camera to take the pictures and then you have to export them and run them through special software?  "innovative"......

It really seems like the limitation is arbitrary, why they allow people to set more time between capturing frames is beyond me. This suggests it’s a simple issue of software designers doing weird things just because they can.

You are probably right.....

When Nikon started into digital cameras, it seemed like their menu system was designed by programmers with little or no thought as to how a photographer would actually use them.... They got a lot better with time.... This could be the same.....
The best camera is the one in your hands

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: A7RIII from Sony: Dpreview is impressed by Pixel shift
« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2017, 12:09:44 PM »
Since no one mentioned it, how about 200 MP?  From 2011! 

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/3698399703/hasselbladms

It has now quitely vanished, I suspect that few found the feature useful in actual usage.

Tugela

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Re: A7RIII from Sony: Dpreview is impressed by Pixel shift
« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2017, 04:25:09 PM »
It is likely useful for still life photos, its my impression that any movement spoils the effect. 

That's a example of how something like the still scene at DPR could mislead less experienced photographers into believing that all their photos will benefit. 

I know that some, including me, have a camera support that's bolted down (mine is literally bolted down)  In that case I could benefit, except that most of my product photos are drastically downsized for the internet, so my support is bolted down for convenience and to prevent accidental bumps rather than ultra high resolution.

It would, because the final image is made up of multiple exposures. It would be a lot like HDR in that respect. Any element that is moving is going to blur out.

When they first mentioned this feature I was hoping that the shifts would happen a lot faster. Unfortunately it is too slow if anything moves in the frame, so I think it will only really work for some sort of still life/static subject matter.

It should be great for images that work for the technology however.

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Re: A7RIII from Sony: Dpreview is impressed by Pixel shift
« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2017, 04:25:09 PM »