December 12, 2017, 05:04:57 PM

Author Topic: The Canon EOS Kiss M / EOS M50 Shows Up for Certification  (Read 10215 times)

jolyonralph

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Re: The Canon EOS Kiss M / EOS M50 Shows Up for Certification
« Reply #30 on: November 15, 2017, 09:23:25 AM »
You mean this?! Get lost! ;D For stills it seems impractical in almost every way.

I think someone is having a laugh :) The Hasselblad 500 is a huge mirror in a box. Making a mirrorless camera in that format is just ridiculous!

Mirrorless allows new mounts with far greater design flexibility. I want to see innovation, I want to see new designs, new ergonomics. Some things won't work, some things will.  But this is the only way to compete.

But sticking to the current layout (and lens mount) just because people are afraid of change isn't the way to innovate.

Jolyon

ps. people are afraid of losing their investment in lenses.  Don't you realise that a lifetime lens is a thing of the past? New sensors, new lens releases, how many of you have traded in your 24-70 mark 1 for a mark 2? How many will trade in the mark 2 to get the IS version when that arrives?







Jolyon Ralph

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Re: The Canon EOS Kiss M / EOS M50 Shows Up for Certification
« Reply #30 on: November 15, 2017, 09:23:25 AM »

Foxdude

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Re: The Canon EOS Kiss M / EOS M50 Shows Up for Certification
« Reply #31 on: November 15, 2017, 10:05:11 AM »

[/quote]



Mirrorless allows new mounts with far greater design flexibility. I want to see innovation, I want to see new designs, new ergonomics. Some things won't work, some things will.  But this is the only way to compete.

But sticking to the current layout (and lens mount) just because people are afraid of change isn't the way to innovate.

Jolyon

ps. people are afraid of losing their investment in lenses.  Don't you realise that a lifetime lens is a thing of the past? New sensors, new lens releases, how many of you have traded in your 24-70 mark 1 for a mark 2? How many will trade in the mark 2 to get the IS version when that arrives?
[/quote]

My thoughts exactly. I'm thinking to slowly replace my dslr gear with mirrorless ecosystem, and I'm interested to see what Canon has to offer in feature. I'd like to see new innovations, and high-end mirrorless design lenses, like Fuji have, and full support to system.

I really like, and love my EF glass, but they can all be replaced with new, even more attractive options.

bf

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Re: The Canon EOS Kiss M / EOS M50 Shows Up for Certification
« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2017, 02:26:02 PM »
Kiss also says it should not be full-frame. Is it a mirror-less APSC with EF mount? Does not sound well to me however there are several DSLR shooters that always use a mount adapter for their M bodies. It may be for them and a prologue to the full-frame mirror-less.
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rrcphoto

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Re: The Canon EOS Kiss M / EOS M50 Shows Up for Certification
« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2017, 02:55:26 PM »
Kiss also says it should not be full-frame.

it does?
Rebel Kiss were originally film based cameras - full frame.

jolyonralph

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Re: The Canon EOS Kiss M / EOS M50 Shows Up for Certification
« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2017, 05:53:39 PM »
Kiss also says it should not be full-frame.

it does?
Rebel Kiss were originally film based cameras - full frame.

Kiss has always been the 'low end', and I don't think we're at the stage yet where low-end full-frame cameras are likely.
Jolyon Ralph

Cameras: 5DSR, A7RII, 5D III, EOS M6/M5/M3, Mavic Pro, DXO One.  Oh, and more lenses than I care to count.

bf

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Re: The Canon EOS Kiss M / EOS M50 Shows Up for Certification
« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2017, 02:14:22 PM »
Kiss also says it should not be full-frame.

it does?
Rebel Kiss were originally film based cameras - full frame.

Kiss has always been the 'low end', and I don't think we're at the stage yet where low-end full-frame cameras are likely.

I don't even recall Canon offering a full-frame DSLR on the rebel line. The most prosumer attempt for M system has been M5 so far. It's very unlikely to call anything with a full-frame sensor rebel or kiss.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 08:13:53 PM by bf »
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Adelino

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Re: The Canon EOS Kiss M / EOS M50 Shows Up for Certification
« Reply #36 on: November 16, 2017, 02:43:44 PM »
Kiss also says it should not be full-frame.

it does?
Rebel Kiss were originally film based cameras - full frame.

Kiss has always been the 'low end', and I don't think we're at the stage yet where low-end full-frame cameras are likely.

I don't even recall Canon offering a DSLR on the rebel line. The most prosumer attempt for M system has been M5 so far. It's very unlikely to call anything with a full-frame sensor rebel or kiss.

You don't recall Canon offering DSLR Rebels? There are a whole bunch still offered. I doubt the Rebel line of DSLRs will go away ver soon they sell like hotcakes!

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Re: The Canon EOS Kiss M / EOS M50 Shows Up for Certification
« Reply #36 on: November 16, 2017, 02:43:44 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: The Canon EOS Kiss M / EOS M50 Shows Up for Certification
« Reply #37 on: November 16, 2017, 02:50:43 PM »
I don't even recall Canon offering a DSLR on the rebel line.

Did you mean SLR (not digital).  Yes, there were like 10 Rebel film cameras (Rebel, Rebel II, Rebel X, G, K2, Ti, more I can't remember) before the first Rebel dSLR.  That first Rebel dSLR was the EOS 300D in most of the world, but in the US it was the Digital Rebel. 
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rrcphoto

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Re: The Canon EOS Kiss M / EOS M50 Shows Up for Certification
« Reply #38 on: November 16, 2017, 06:15:26 PM »
Kiss also says it should not be full-frame.

it does?
Rebel Kiss were originally film based cameras - full frame.

Kiss has always been the 'low end', and I don't think we're at the stage yet where low-end full-frame cameras are likely.

I don't even recall Canon offering a DSLR on the rebel line. The most prosumer attempt for M system has been M5 so far. It's very unlikely to call anything with a full-frame sensor rebel or kiss.

Rebel / Kiss has to do with the pentamirror, ergonomics and general quality of the camera body.  sensor size has squat to do with it really.  Canon had 35mm cameras in the film days that were called Rebel/Kiss and certainly could again in digital.

bf

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Re: The Canon EOS Kiss M / EOS M50 Shows Up for Certification
« Reply #39 on: November 16, 2017, 08:14:36 PM »
Kiss also says it should not be full-frame.

it does?
Rebel Kiss were originally film based cameras - full frame.

Kiss has always been the 'low end', and I don't think we're at the stage yet where low-end full-frame cameras are likely.

I don't even recall Canon offering a DSLR on the rebel line. The most prosumer attempt for M system has been M5 so far. It's very unlikely to call anything with a full-frame sensor rebel or kiss.

You don't recall Canon offering DSLR Rebels? There are a whole bunch still offered. I doubt the Rebel line of DSLRs will go away ver soon they sell like hotcakes!

I meant a "full-frame" DSLR rebel ...
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bf

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Re: The Canon EOS Kiss M / EOS M50 Shows Up for Certification
« Reply #40 on: November 16, 2017, 08:18:47 PM »
Kiss also says it should not be full-frame.

it does?
Rebel Kiss were originally film based cameras - full frame.

Kiss has always been the 'low end', and I don't think we're at the stage yet where low-end full-frame cameras are likely.

I don't even recall Canon offering a DSLR on the rebel line. The most prosumer attempt for M system has been M5 so far. It's very unlikely to call anything with a full-frame sensor rebel or kiss.

Rebel / Kiss has to do with the pentamirror, ergonomics and general quality of the camera body.  sensor size has squat to do with it really.  Canon had 35mm cameras in the film days that were called Rebel/Kiss and certainly could again in digital.

Is it technically possible? Yes! Is it practical at 2018?
Unlike SLRs, where you had to buy and process film on your own, sensor is a part of the DSLRs. Our argument is a full-frame sensor is too expensive for the rebel line.
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rrcphoto

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Re: The Canon EOS Kiss M / EOS M50 Shows Up for Certification
« Reply #41 on: November 16, 2017, 08:39:24 PM »
Kiss also says it should not be full-frame.

it does?
Rebel Kiss were originally film based cameras - full frame.

Kiss has always been the 'low end', and I don't think we're at the stage yet where low-end full-frame cameras are likely.

I don't even recall Canon offering a DSLR on the rebel line. The most prosumer attempt for M system has been M5 so far. It's very unlikely to call anything with a full-frame sensor rebel or kiss.

Rebel / Kiss has to do with the pentamirror, ergonomics and general quality of the camera body.  sensor size has squat to do with it really.  Canon had 35mm cameras in the film days that were called Rebel/Kiss and certainly could again in digital.

Is it technically possible? Yes! Is it practical at 2018?
Unlike SLRs, where you had to buy and process film on your own, sensor is a part of the DSLRs. Our argument is a full-frame sensor is too expensive for the rebel line.

hard to say it still is when canon managed to sell the 6D for 1400 MSRP at the end of it's lifespan, meanwhile a super-rebel floats in at around 900.

it's also hard to say that a full frame sensor would cost that much more, considering it would have a higher volume, and overtime a lower price than canon's more expensive camera sensors.

the parts in a rebel, shutter, viewfinder, etc are atypically cheaper than what you'd see on the current full frame cameras.

it's most likely an EOS-M camera anyways, so this is moot.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 08:42:39 PM by rrcphoto »

ahsanford

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Re: The Canon EOS Kiss M / EOS M50 Shows Up for Certification
« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2017, 08:54:10 PM »
hard to say it still is when canon managed to sell the 6D for 1400 MSRP at the end of it's lifespan, meanwhile a super-rebel floats in at around 900.

it's also hard to say that a full frame sensor would cost that much more, considering it would have a higher volume, and overtime a lower price than canon's more expensive camera sensors.

the parts in a rebel, shutter, viewfinder, etc are atypically cheaper than what you'd see on the current full frame cameras.

As I'm sure a knowledgeable poster like you knows, it's not just the sensor that costs more when you step up to FF.  The OVF, mirror, mirror box and shutter have to do more / cover more / endure more physically over that larger real estate.

But sure, if Canon severed both of its own legs and made all of its future cameras full frame, full frame cameras would come down in cost.  Canon would also bleed out from abandoning their cash cow ~$700-800 crop + kit lens business.

And then there's that whole thing about...

  • ...the excess and obsolescence of the entire EF-S portfolio now that there aren't any EF-S cameras anymore

  • ...the added burden of developing super cheap FF lenses for entry-level FF buyers who no longer can use EF-S 18-55s and aren't going to pony up $599 for a non-L 24-105 STM.

  • ...Sony and Nikon would swoop in with crop cameras that are $200-300 cheaper than a $999 and (critically) not nearly as physically large as the FF equivalent.

So, yeah, Canon could go all in at FF, but I think they'd lose their shirt unless they wait until APS-C dries up from cell phone competition (which one thinks will be a while).

- A
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 09:03:17 PM by ahsanford »

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Re: The Canon EOS Kiss M / EOS M50 Shows Up for Certification
« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2017, 08:54:10 PM »

Adelino

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Re: The Canon EOS Kiss M / EOS M50 Shows Up for Certification
« Reply #43 on: November 17, 2017, 01:14:58 AM »
Kiss also says it should not be full-frame.

it does?
Rebel Kiss were originally film based cameras - full frame.

Kiss has always been the 'low end', and I don't think we're at the stage yet where low-end full-frame cameras are likely.

I don't even recall Canon offering a DSLR on the rebel line. The most prosumer attempt for M system has been M5 so far. It's very unlikely to call anything with a full-frame sensor rebel or kiss.

You don't recall Canon offering DSLR Rebels? There are a whole bunch still offered. I doubt the Rebel line of DSLRs will go away ver soon they sell like hotcakes!

I meant a "full-frame" DSLR rebel ...

 In that case, yes you are right. The Rebel film cameras were FF, of course, but that is an entirely different era. The Kiss/Rebel line would have to be cropped sensor to make sense. Kiss/Rebel would be reassuring to soccer parents and tempting for beginners. There would be no marketing advantage to naming a FF Kiss/Rebel.

AvTvM

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Re: The Canon EOS Kiss M / EOS M50 Shows Up for Certification
« Reply #44 on: November 17, 2017, 04:14:06 AM »
So, yeah, Canon could go all in at FF, but I think they'd lose their shirt unless they wait until APS-C dries up from cell phone competition (which one thinks will be a while).

nobody in their right mind would expect Canon to move to FF sensored gear ONLY. APS-C sensors will remain volume seller for a good number of years. Phone cameras will eventually catch up with APS-C IQ-wise but only when computational photography [multi-sensor-lens module cameras long the lines of Light L16] really delivers. It is not there yet and sure looks like we are still a number of generation jumps away ... 5+ years even in my generally optimistic views on tech innovation [outside of Canon].

But it is high time for Canon to finally launch a *FIRST* FF-sensored mirrorless camera and lens series. Far from an "all-in" proposition. In addition to selling mirrorslappers to n00bs and old skoolers who believe only a mirrorslapper to be "a real camera". :-)

And just to be sure: no, EOS M50 will NOT have an FF sensor. It will be the lowest entry point into APS-C sensored EOS M line-up. Basically a further nerfed EOS M100. 

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Re: The Canon EOS Kiss M / EOS M50 Shows Up for Certification
« Reply #44 on: November 17, 2017, 04:14:06 AM »