December 12, 2017, 12:06:18 AM

Poll

will be?

dead on arrival. less dynamic range, worse low light than comp. handicapped video feautures
too little too late. equal to competition but released in late 2018
blow away comp. 4k 60p(FF and crop), IBIS, 10fps, super fast buffer, 14 stops DR
canons first mirrorless camera
already preordered my a7riii or d850

Author Topic: The 5DsR mk2  (Read 15555 times)

scyrene

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Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #45 on: November 22, 2017, 01:04:08 PM »
I was never blown away by its detail as I didn't think it ever showed any more detail than a 5D III.

You may not think it does, but it does.

What is everyone's experience using the 5Ds/r for landscape or wildlife photography?  Can you use it hand-held?  Any reason to be concerned if you are using only L glass?   

I have found the 5Ds essentially the same as the 5D3 in terms of what it can do (the slightly lower fps has never been an issue for *me*, although it's not ideal for BIF) - by which I mean it is not worse in any noticeable regard. It does require much more hard disk space, however. You can use it handheld, although for best pixel-level sharpness you need rather faster shutter speeds for the same conditions - it's not prohibitive by any means though. I have no complaints regarding image quality.
Current equipment: 5Ds, 5D mark III, 50D, 24-105L, MP-E, 100L macro, 500L IS II; 1.4xIII + 2x III extenders; 600EX-RT.
Former equipment includes: 300D; EOS-M, EF-M 18-55, Samyang 14mm f/2.8, EF 35 f/2 IS, 70-200L f/4 non-IS and f/2.8L IS II, 85L II, Sigma 180 macro, 200L 2.8, 400L 5.6

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Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #45 on: November 22, 2017, 01:04:08 PM »

tron

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Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #46 on: November 22, 2017, 01:31:43 PM »
If only there were a leak to give me a reason not to buy the a7Riii

What a ridiculous poll. Three negative choices, one pretty irrelevant and the only positive choice so distorted in unlikely features that it is difficult to expect them and check that box.
+1000  Not a reasonable choice like what Neuro said: incremental update to a functional camera. And since the current camera is a very good camera I can only be sure what its successor will be.

Talys

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Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #47 on: November 22, 2017, 01:34:01 PM »
It's threads like this that make me wish this forum had a downvote/vote to hide feature, because the poll options are ridiculous and make assumptions, like:

1) The poll voter cares about 4k video, or video at all
2) The person thinks that A7RIII is a usable camera
3) The reader believes that the D850's sensor sophistication outweighs other Nikon system disadvantages

How about option #6 and #7?

[ ] "I have no idea what the 5DsR Mk2's features will be, and although I like reading about these things, I'm unlikely to buy a camera at this price point made by any manufacturer."

[ ] "I have no idea what the 5DSR Mk2's features will be, but I'm excited about a refreshed high-resolution Canon body and will seriously consider it as the specifics become published."


tron

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Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #48 on: November 22, 2017, 03:04:17 PM »
We basically need another option:  "This is a stupid poll"  ;D

ahsanford

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Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #49 on: November 22, 2017, 03:40:45 PM »
Personally, I think the 5DS/R2 as a product asks a fundamental question of Canon:  should they double down on detail or step towards more general purpose applications.  They could go all in on resolution or they could walk towards the 'supercamera' concept of high res *and* higher fps, like the A7R3 and D850 have recently done.

Crudely:  they could go 80 MP x 5 fps or they could go 50 MP x 8 fps.  (Don't torture the numbers, I'm just painting a picture.)  The former is 5D4 complimentary, while the latter could lower 5D4 sales unless a much higher price point is established.

Whichever way they go on the 5DS/R2, I'm presuming either model will have all the 5D4 improvements -- on-chip ADC, touch, DPAF, DPRAW, WiFi, NFC, etc.

But I'm not positive it will get a tilty-flippy.  I presume the 5D5 will finally get one, but perhaps the 5DS/R2 has had shared 5D4 frame / component assumptions baked into its business plan for some time.

- A

unfocused

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Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #50 on: November 22, 2017, 05:00:07 PM »
Personally, I think the 5DS/R2 as a product asks a fundamental question of Canon:  should they double down on detail or step towards more general purpose applications.  They could go all in on resolution or they could walk towards the 'supercamera' concept of high res *and* higher fps, like the A7R3 and D850 have recently done.

Crudely:  they could go 80 MP x 5 fps or they could go 50 MP x 8 fps.  (Don't torture the numbers, I'm just painting a picture.)  The former is 5D4 complimentary, while the latter could lower 5D4 sales unless a much higher price point is established.

Whichever way they go on the 5DS/R2, I'm presuming either model will have all the 5D4 improvements -- on-chip ADC, touch, DPAF, DPRAW, WiFi, NFC, etc.

But I'm not positive it will get a tilty-flippy.  I presume the 5D5 will finally get one, but perhaps the 5DS/R2 has had shared 5D4 frame / component assumptions baked into its business plan for some time.

- A

Sorry, but I don't see the 5Ds series asking or answering any fundamental questions. The 5Ds series was created as a niche camera focused on the highest reasonable resolution at the time. Canon saw a market and filled it.

To make it affordable, Canon created a Franken-camera using the 5DIII body and an apparently upscaled 70D sensor.

I don't see the basic formula changing. 5DIV body with a sensor likely comparable to an upscaled 7DIII sensor -- which I expect will be different and better than the 80D, but will likely have a marginal increase in megapixel count.

If their market research shows that customers want to drop the AA filter (highly likely in my opinion) they may release just one version.

Frame rate will be driven by the limits of the electronics-- it's at most a secondary consideration and not a driver of specs or purchases. Those who want a higher frame rate have plenty of other choices.

In short, the 5Ds II will be a very solid upgrade with (as you said) "on-chip ADC, touch, DPAF, DPRAW, WiFi, NFC, etc." But, as far as answering any fundamental questions about the future emphasis of Canon's R&D, this is not the camera you are looking for.

ahsanford

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Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #51 on: November 22, 2017, 05:04:32 PM »
I don't see the basic formula changing. 5DIV body with a sensor likely comparable to an upscaled 7DIII sensor -- which I expect will be different and better than the 80D, but will likely have a marginal increase in megapixel count.

If their market research shows that customers want to drop the AA filter (highly likely in my opinion) they may release just one version.

Frame rate will be driven by the limits of the electronics-- it's at most a secondary consideration and not a driver of specs or purchases. Those who want a higher frame rate have plenty of other choices.

In short, the 5Ds II will be a very solid upgrade with (as you said) "on-chip ADC, touch, DPAF, DPRAW, WiFi, NFC, etc." But, as far as answering any fundamental questions about the future emphasis of Canon's R&D, this is not the camera you are looking for.

Perhaps I'm not being clear. 

Will Canon re-segment their FF portfolio to go from:

          Enthusiast / All-Around Pro / Niche High Detail

To:

          Good / Better / Best

...like what the competition is doing?  Will two competitive supercameras with bonkers throughput levels push Canon to follow suit?

- A

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Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #51 on: November 22, 2017, 05:04:32 PM »

bholliman

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Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #52 on: November 22, 2017, 08:24:30 PM »
I can't answer the poll since none of the choices are close to my opinion, which is:

The 5Ds(R) II will be a nice upgrade to its excellent predecessor. 
« Last Edit: November 23, 2017, 10:32:10 AM by bholliman »
5DsR, EF Lenses: 35mm f/2IS, 300mm f/2.8L II IS, 16-35mm f/4L IS, 24-70mm f/2.8LII, 70-200mm f/2.8LIS II, 100-400mm II
M5, M series lenses: Rokinon 12mm f/2, EF-M 22mm f/2, 18-150mm
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unfocused

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Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #53 on: November 22, 2017, 08:31:24 PM »
I can't answer the poll since none of the choices are close to my opinion, which is:

The 5Ds(R) will be a nice upgrade to its excellent predecessor.

Correct answer. +1

unfocused

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Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #54 on: November 22, 2017, 08:52:16 PM »
I don't see the basic formula changing. ...

Perhaps I'm not being clear. 

Will Canon re-segment their FF portfolio to go from:

          Enthusiast / All-Around Pro / Niche High Detail

To:

          Good / Better / Best

...like what the competition is doing?  Will two competitive supercameras with bonkers throughput levels push Canon to follow suit?

- A

I think you are being clear. It's just that I don't see what you are seeing. Canon already offers Good (6DII), Better (5DIV) and Best (1DxII). In addition, Canon has taken the "better" camera and made two different versions. One as a all-around version for pros, enthusiasts, semi-pros, etc., and one a specialized version for those who need or want the highest resolution possible.

I think you are splitting hairs, by lumping Nikon and Sony into one type of market differentiation and Canon into another.

If you are suggesting that there is room in Canon's lineup for something between either the 6D and 5D or between the 5D and 1Dx, that may be true. Although it seems to me that the space is pretty narrow.

I see far more space below the 6DII than between any models. Yet, at the same time, while there may be space below the 6D, based on specifications, I'm not sure there is any space based on price -- especially as the 6DII settles in at $1,600 or below. Canon has cut the price by $300 (through a very generous instant rebate) which is consistent with the way Canon marketed the original 6D -- which was also considered overpriced at introduction, but quickly dropped in price.

I think both Canon and Canon's customers may be perfectly happy to have a feature-rich full-frame camera that will soon go from being a disappointment to forum dwellers to an incredible bargain for people who actually buy cameras.

tomscott

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Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #55 on: November 23, 2017, 04:28:17 AM »
I for one am very excited about a MKII version full stop.

When it came out I was very skeptical, didn't need the MP, seemed too niche etc etc

In reality its a very usable camera in all applications and I dont think its that niche. I think add the MKIV body and features and the sensor tech with 50mp make it 6FPS and a little more responsive and it could be very close to a full all rounder. Great for landscape and studio work but very capable as a second camera for wedding events and portraiture. It could be a beast for wildlife, add a GPS it would be a great travel companion.

The issue for me for all the above but landscape and wildlife is the mp count is still a little prohibitive. I shoot around 2k of images at weddings and that on its own is around 50-70gb depending on the cameras I own. That would double then output too. If they could make an M raw around the 5DMKIV or 6DMKII file size with no compromises that would be awesome. Another cool idea is a crop mode to get more out of your lenses without cropping in post.

Asking far too much as that camera would make most of the range seem really niche.

Im not that interested in video but if they could add 1080 at 60 with DPAF that would be nice.
6D MKII, 5D MKIII STOLEN, 7D MKII 70D 17-55mm F2.8 16-35mm F2.8 II L 24-70mm F2.8 L 24-105mm F4 L 70-200mm F2.8 II L 100-400mm F4.5-5.6 II L 2x II 1.4X III 580EX

tron

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Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #56 on: November 23, 2017, 07:31:05 AM »
I just voted Dead on Arrival to help you move on to Sony :D

However, I will gladly upgrade my 5DsR to Mk II  when that is released  :D

jeffa4444

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Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #57 on: November 23, 2017, 09:59:01 AM »
The 5DSR Mark I hasn't really impressed me as a camera.
Maybe its my version but the 5D III and 5D IV that I have are better in terms of image quality.
It doesn't perform well as the ISO goes up.
I was never blown away by its detail as I didn't think it ever showed any more detail than a 5D III.
I'd find the image quality in the 5D IV much better than it.
You know the file size when you are buying it but 50mp tends to be a waste.
I think they crammed too many MP's in the sensor to get to fifty and overstretched it.
I've felt the same with the 7DII (similar if not same MP density).
It wasn't a great buy.
It is slow, there is a second or two delay between taking the photo and it displaying which I find annoying.
It performs best on a tripod at ISO100.
If they bring out a 5DSR Mark II it would need to be really excellent to convince me to upgrade.
The detail it would bring out would have to be a step above the 5D IV.
It's performance at ISO 1600 onwards would need to be alot better

Of course it could be mirrorless which would be a different take.
I think if Canon go mirrorless the first camera has to be very good.
I could not disagree more.
Ive taken thousands of shots with my 5DS mainly in the studio shooting portraits but also landscapes and even on a safari. One area it could do with improvement is low ISO no question but making a statement you cannot see differences between the 5D MKIII or even the 5D IV in details etc. so factually incorrect. The camera has consistently impressed in this area and as I shoot predominately at ISO 100 with a 160 shutter speed using strobes both the level of keepers, detail & sharpness have been a notch above the 5D MKIV not to say that camera is bad but to point out 50MP really does give great results when you nail exposure & focusing.

Would I buy a MKII if it improved over the MK1? In a heartbeat.
Canon 5DS, Canon 6D, Canon 6D MKII,16-35 f4L IS USM, 17-40 f4L USM, 28 f2.8, 24-70mm f4L IS USM, 24-105 f4L IS USM, 100mm f2.8L IS USM, 70-200 f2.8L IS USM II, 70-300 f4-5.6 IS USM, 50 f1.8 STM, 100-400mm f4.5-5.6L IS USM II, 1.4EX III, EOS 760D, EF-S 10-18mm f4.5-5.6 IS STM & others.

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Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #57 on: November 23, 2017, 09:59:01 AM »

Hector1970

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Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #58 on: November 26, 2017, 04:16:09 PM »
The 5DSR Mark I hasn't really impressed me as a camera.
Maybe its my version but the 5D III and 5D IV that I have are better in terms of image quality.
It doesn't perform well as the ISO goes up.
I was never blown away by its detail as I didn't think it ever showed any more detail than a 5D III.
I'd find the image quality in the 5D IV much better than it.
You know the file size when you are buying it but 50mp tends to be a waste.
I think they crammed too many MP's in the sensor to get to fifty and overstretched it.
I've felt the same with the 7DII (similar if not same MP density).
It wasn't a great buy.
It is slow, there is a second or two delay between taking the photo and it displaying which I find annoying.
It performs best on a tripod at ISO100.
If they bring out a 5DSR Mark II it would need to be really excellent to convince me to upgrade.
The detail it would bring out would have to be a step above the 5D IV.
It's performance at ISO 1600 onwards would need to be alot better

Of course it could be mirrorless which would be a different take.
I think if Canon go mirrorless the first camera has to be very good.
I could not disagree more.
Ive taken thousands of shots with my 5DS mainly in the studio shooting portraits but also landscapes and even on a safari. One area it could do with improvement is low ISO no question but making a statement you cannot see differences between the 5D MKIII or even the 5D IV in details etc. so factually incorrect. The camera has consistently impressed in this area and as I shoot predominately at ISO 100 with a 160 shutter speed using strobes both the level of keepers, detail & sharpness have been a notch above the 5D MKIV not to say that camera is bad but to point out 50MP really does give great results when you nail exposure & focusing.

Would I buy a MKII if it improved over the MK1? In a heartbeat.
I've taken 10's of thousands of photographs with a 5DSR and other than perfect conditions eg ISO 100 it doesn't perform nearly as well as a 5DIII or a 5DIV. It performs best in a studio but then most gear does. It's not a bad camera but not worth the file size afterwards. As always I may have a bad copy but I'm not the first to be not fully supportive of it as a camera. If I had no camera and was buying a full frame I'd get the 5DIV first in a heartbeat.

Frodo

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Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #59 on: November 26, 2017, 07:46:09 PM »
Hi Hector

I am surprised about your comments that the 5DsR has poorer image quality than the 5DIII and 5DIV.  I've never owned one of those cameras but I had a 5DII and now have a 6D (and the 6D is similar to the 5DIII).  Image quality has a range of dimensions.  Most commonly discussed is resolution.  You say "I was never blown away by its detail as I didn't think it ever showed any more detail than a 5D III.".  I've compared my 6D to my 5DsR.  The increase in resolution is stunning.  At my first comparison I thought (incorrectly) I had misfocused the 6D!  The increase in resolution with good lenses is about in proportion to the increase in linear dimensions.  Even with my 24-105/4, the differences are dramatic. 

The next aspect is DR.  In initial testing, the DR seems similar to the 6D when downsampled to similar size files.  I do like the soft noise that the 5DsR produces in shadows - no blotches or banding so far, but this is with limited testing. Hi ISO noise? I use the 6D for landscape astrophotography and will soon see how well the 5DsR performs. 

I agree that at the pixel level, the other cameras might be better, but when downsampled to similar sizes, the 5DsR is better than the 6D and I assume the 5DIII. 

In terms of color tonality, I've shot one wedding and one event with the 5DsR and the images are fabulous.

I agree a little more DR would be nice.  My biggest issue is that LR conversion of mRaw files is poor, because you usually don't need all 50MP.  But when you do, its nice to have.
If gear matters: 5DsR, 6D, M3, Samyang 14/2.8, EF 24-105/4, EF 35/2.0IS, EF 50/2.5 macro, EF 85/1.8, EF 200/2.8II, EF 400/5.6, EF-M 11-22/4-5.6, EF-M 18-55/3.5-5.6, EF-M 55-200/4.5-6.3, Ext 1.4x, Lifesize conv, Ext tube EF25, 430EXII, 270EX, Yongnuo 603C

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Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #59 on: November 26, 2017, 07:46:09 PM »