December 18, 2017, 08:05:44 AM

Poll

will be?

dead on arrival. less dynamic range, worse low light than comp. handicapped video feautures
too little too late. equal to competition but released in late 2018
blow away comp. 4k 60p(FF and crop), IBIS, 10fps, super fast buffer, 14 stops DR
canons first mirrorless camera
already preordered my a7riii or d850

Author Topic: The 5DsR mk2  (Read 16617 times)

Mancubus

  • EOS Rebel T7i
  • ****
  • Posts: 132
Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #75 on: December 03, 2017, 01:32:38 PM »
Here is how to make a successful 5DSR2:

- Take a Canon 5D4
- Get rid of the damn AA filter
- Bump the resolution to 50+ MP
- Give it a medium (~30MP) and a small (~20MP) RAW file option that uses the sensor in a clever way getting more light on each pixel instead of just resizing a 50MP file
- Update anything that is over 10 years old (like the 4K codec and the SD card)
- Don't f**k up anything that you're not supposed to (such as giving it a s**t DR like the 6D2)

Do this and I'd gladly pay 4000usd for it.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #75 on: December 03, 2017, 01:32:38 PM »

3kramd5

  • EOS-1D X Mark II
  • *******
  • Posts: 1850
Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #76 on: December 03, 2017, 02:47:42 PM »
Here is how to make a successful 5DSR2:


- Give it a medium (~30MP) and a small (~20MP) RAW file option that uses the sensor in a clever way getting more light on each pixel instead of just resizing a 50MP file

Do this and I'd gladly pay 4000usd for it.

You might as well have said you’d pay 40,000USD for it.
Some Canon, some Nikon, some Sony, some Olympus

Sporgon

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *********
  • Posts: 3473
  • 5% of gear used 95% of the time
    • www.buildingpanoramics.com
Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #77 on: December 03, 2017, 03:21:24 PM »
Here is how to make a successful 5DSR2:

- Get rid of the damn AA filter...

 I thought that in time the "r" would have a disproportionately higher used value to the plain "s", in a similar way to what happened with the Nikon D800, and so the extra £200 spent on a new "r" would be money well spent in the long term. However here in the U.K. it seems that on the used market the "s" is making the same or even more money. Certainly there are a lot less "s" ones for sale.

So I guess that there are many out there who would disagree about leaving the "damn" AA filter out  ;)

Certainly for myself I went for the 5Ds and had to go to more lengths to get one. My local pro dealer has them on back order........

Mancubus

  • EOS Rebel T7i
  • ****
  • Posts: 132
Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #78 on: December 05, 2017, 04:35:47 AM »
Here is how to make a successful 5DSR2:


- Give it a medium (~30MP) and a small (~20MP) RAW file option that uses the sensor in a clever way getting more light on each pixel instead of just resizing a 50MP file

Do this and I'd gladly pay 4000usd for it.


You might as well have said you’d pay 40,000USD for it.


Why is that? It doesn't seem impossible, just a way of getting more light (using more sensor area) per pixel when not using the camera in the maximum megapixel setting.

To my understanding, that would allow some noise level similar to a 1DX Mark II (even less noise if technology improves). Much better than having the camera just resizing what would be a regular 50+ MP file.


midluk

  • EOS 80D
  • ****
  • Posts: 283
Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #79 on: December 05, 2017, 11:46:47 AM »
Why is that? It doesn't seem impossible, just a way of getting more light (using more sensor area) per pixel when not using the camera in the maximum megapixel setting.

To my understanding, that would allow some noise level similar to a 1DX Mark II (even less noise if technology improves). Much better than having the camera just resizing what would be a regular 50+ MP file.
Can you specify what you mean by "resizing"?
5D4+BG-E20, 70D+BG-E14, EF 24-70 f/4L IS, EF 16-35 f/4L IS, EF 100 f/2.8L IS macro, EF 70-200 f/2.8L IS II, EF 100-400 L IS II, 2x 600EX-RT, 430EX III-RT, MT-26EX-RT

3kramd5

  • EOS-1D X Mark II
  • *******
  • Posts: 1850
Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #80 on: December 05, 2017, 10:52:53 PM »
Here is how to make a successful 5DSR2:


- Give it a medium (~30MP) and a small (~20MP) RAW file option that uses the sensor in a clever way getting more light on each pixel instead of just resizing a 50MP file

Do this and I'd gladly pay 4000usd for it.


You might as well have said you’d pay 40,000USD for it.


Why is that? It doesn't seem impossible, just a way of getting more light (using more sensor area) per pixel when not using the camera in the maximum megapixel setting.

But it is impossible. Sensor area is a fixed quantity and you can’t get more of it by using fewer pixels. You can bin pixels, but they don’t benefit from additional light.
Some Canon, some Nikon, some Sony, some Olympus

Sporgon

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *********
  • Posts: 3473
  • 5% of gear used 95% of the time
    • www.buildingpanoramics.com
Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #81 on: December 06, 2017, 12:10:02 AM »
The current 5Ds (sr) will take a remarkable amount of over-exposure at low ISO without loss of saturation / colour accuracy. If less noise is your goal just over-expose and reduce in post.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #81 on: December 06, 2017, 12:10:02 AM »

Mancubus

  • EOS Rebel T7i
  • ****
  • Posts: 132
Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #82 on: December 06, 2017, 03:06:23 AM »
Can you specify what you mean by "resizing"?

Taking a photo normally (full resolution), and then the camera processes it to create a smaller file with just less pixels.



But it is impossible. Sensor area is a fixed quantity and you can’t get more of it by using fewer pixels. You can bin pixels, but they don’t benefit from additional light.

The total sensor area is constant, but when you reduce the number of pixels on the raw file, each pixel will have more area to obtain information from.

traveller

  • EOS 5DS R
  • ******
  • Posts: 808
Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #83 on: December 06, 2017, 04:50:14 AM »
The current 5Ds (sr) will take a remarkable amount of over-exposure at low ISO without loss of saturation / colour accuracy. If less noise is your goal just over-expose and reduce in post.

Doesn’t this just mean that the histogram is very inaccurate in RAW and the meter underexposes? I’m not criticising Canon alone, just about every camera (other than the Phase One XF with the latest IQ3 backs) does the same.

On my 5D3, I set the “Neutral” picture style, then customise it by lowering the contrast to minimum and bumping up the sharpness a little (4, -4, 0, 0). I find this makes the histogram closer to the RAW file, while still allowing focus evaluation on the rear screen. It has zero effect on the file imported into Lightroom/ACR (I can’t speak for other RAW converters).

sanj

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • ********
  • Posts: 2918
Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #84 on: December 06, 2017, 10:13:16 AM »
The current 5Ds (sr) will take a remarkable amount of over-exposure at low ISO without loss of saturation / colour accuracy. If less noise is your goal just over-expose and reduce in post.

This, to ME sounds like the old film days mentality. I used to 1/4 over expose 400 plus ISO film regularly. I doubt if this is good idea today.

tron

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *********
  • Posts: 3254
Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #85 on: December 06, 2017, 10:18:25 AM »
If you must overexpose you have to do it within reason because blown highlights cannot be recovered and since the histogram can be made approximate but not exact to raw histogram I would suggest to not only overexpose (a little) but to bracket as well to be on the safe side.

3kramd5

  • EOS-1D X Mark II
  • *******
  • Posts: 1850
Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #86 on: December 06, 2017, 10:20:55 AM »
Can you specify what you mean by "resizing"?

Taking a photo normally (full resolution), and then the camera processes it to create a smaller file with just less pixels.



But it is impossible. Sensor area is a fixed quantity and you can’t get more of it by using fewer pixels. You can bin pixels, but they don’t benefit from additional light.

The total sensor area is constant, but when you reduce the number of pixels on the raw file, each pixel will have more area to obtain information from.

A raw file doesn’t have pixels, it just has data. Since you started off by saying to use “the sensor in a clever way getting more light on each pixel,” I thought you were discussing physical pixels.

It sounds like what you are describing is binning: https://web.stanford.edu/group/vista/cgi-bin/wiki/index.php/Pixel_Binning
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 10:44:56 AM by 3kramd5 »
Some Canon, some Nikon, some Sony, some Olympus

Mancubus

  • EOS Rebel T7i
  • ****
  • Posts: 132
Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #87 on: December 06, 2017, 11:03:21 AM »

It sounds like what you are describing is binning: https://web.stanford.edu/group/vista/cgi-bin/wiki/index.php/Pixel_Binning

Exactly! I didn't know the word but that's what I meant. This is what I want the 5DSR2 to do and get small/medium raw files that are better than simply resizing a full sized one.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #87 on: December 06, 2017, 11:03:21 AM »

stevelee

  • EOS M5
  • ****
  • Posts: 226
Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #88 on: December 06, 2017, 03:20:10 PM »
This, to ME sounds like the old film days mentality. I used to 1/4 over expose 400 plus ISO film regularly. I doubt if this is good idea today.

As I recall, it was better to overexpose negative film a bit, and to underexpose slide film a bit. One might argue that just meant giving each a proper exposure.

Sporgon

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *********
  • Posts: 3473
  • 5% of gear used 95% of the time
    • www.buildingpanoramics.com
Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #89 on: December 06, 2017, 03:56:12 PM »
The current 5Ds (sr) will take a remarkable amount of over-exposure at low ISO without loss of saturation / colour accuracy. If less noise is your goal just over-expose and reduce in post.

Doesn’t this just mean that the histogram is very inaccurate in RAW and the meter underexposes? I’m not criticising Canon alone, just about every camera (other than the Phase One XF with the latest IQ3 backs) does the same.

On my 5D3, I set the “Neutral” picture style, then customise it by lowering the contrast to minimum and bumping up the sharpness a little (4, -4, 0, 0). I find this makes the histogram closer to the RAW file, while still allowing focus evaluation on the rear screen. It has zero effect on the file imported into Lightroom/ACR (I can’t speak for other RAW converters).

Not that the meter is inaccurate. Histogram yes, and I too set “ neutral” , very flat for preview. Slight over exposure just floods the pixels a little more, and as long as you don’t overdo it then reduction in post reduces noise. So you’re not actually using the “correct” exposure. Same with negative film in the old days, in fact even now with modern emulsions like Portra it’s virtually impossible to over expose it. Transparencies over exposed where awful and thin though I’m not sure if after scanning you’d pull the colours back - all my transparencies are under exposed if anything !

canon rumors FORUM

Re: The 5DsR mk2
« Reply #89 on: December 06, 2017, 03:56:12 PM »