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Author Topic: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]  (Read 39431 times)

unfocused

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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #75 on: February 14, 2012, 12:32:39 PM »
If your 7D ego has just been bruised then I suggest you get yourself a full frame camera and start pixel peeping and see the "full frame light" my friend

Been there, done that, didn't see the light, and neither can anyone else when put to the test. I hate pixel peepers any way. I make prints. I don't sit in a dark room all night studying images for flaws at 400%.

Exactly!


Price won't really matter.  Sure, if you priced the 7D successor at 2K and had the next closest APS-C at 800, you could stick another body in there around 1300 or 1400 but, if the feature set isn't rightly between those two bodies,  Canon would be wasting their money and would do damage to their market share. 

Ah, yes. The old problem of product differentiation and converging technology. As technology improves, the perceivable differences between products shrink. All of the camera manufacturers are facing this dilemma. It's got to be real hell for them to try find ways to meet consumer demand, while simultaneously finding the right mixture of features for each product. One mistake and you've undercut your product line.

Good news is we consumers win because the products get better. Bad news is the price tags keep going up.
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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #75 on: February 14, 2012, 12:32:39 PM »

aloper

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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #76 on: February 14, 2012, 12:48:28 PM »
Actually, not providing a follow up to the 7D does make sense if you think about a mirrorless camera coming soon...Remove the 7D from the high end and move everything up below it up one notch and now you have room at the lower to mid price range for a mirrorless camera...

So....
1Dx - $6900
5D X (?) - $3999-$4200
5D Mk3 - $2999
70D - $1999
T4i / Rebels - $1000-1500
Mirrorless - $899-1200
GX1 - Reduced to $699


AshtonNekolah

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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #77 on: February 14, 2012, 01:04:18 PM »
no surprise here, and the 7D should of bin what the 60D is, after moving from the 40D to ff I always assumed that it  would of bin the D line and since the 50D the last good quality body in its class went cheapo on the 60D its nice to welcome back the quality D line cameras, I always thought the 7D was a soft touch 5D but when i was told its the new line, that was kinda sad. why have all these names all over the place, somethings should n;t be changed especially when it works well. leave the rebel line the D line and have the Mark line. Im not sure what people call high end these days, but if a camera with a strong built body is considered one, well then the all the D up to the 50d is well built, and whats with the sd card anyway, i say leave that for PAS cameras bigger bodies need more beef inside out and for storage nothings looks as meaty as a CF Card. But its great to welcome back a new 70D if so and the 80D,90D and so on. ;D

the_limper

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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #78 on: February 14, 2012, 01:06:03 PM »
Consider me one of those oddballs but I'd be bothered by this because I like my 60Dand I'd hate to see the line get moved up in cost and in size. It's a perfect fit for me...

I like the size and I don't like the larger size of the 7D nor do I like the size of the smaller xxx line. I upgraded to the 60D for the size and features. Merging the xD line into the xxD line just won't serve people like me at all.




MacPaul

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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #79 on: February 14, 2012, 01:07:23 PM »
I received a suggestion that Canon will not be making a sequel to the 7D. In other words, no 7D Mark II. The 60D replacement (70D?) will move back up to its previous position in the lineup. Does that mean the end of the 60D “super rebel” style camera as well?

Very simple, where's the problem?
70D (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/44755254/EOS-7D-Mk.jpg) based on 7D technology, 7D AF, smaller body, rest remains the same except for Digic V and the usual improvements, please stay at 18MP and reduce noise, price tag should be less than Sony Alpha 77, because Sony puts a certain amount on pressure on the other companies via price. This would be the top of the line APS-C for serious amateurs or how they could be called.

EOS 650D takes position of 60D, getting 7D AF (without some functions like spot AF if you wish), back wheel and faster continous shooting while retaining its price tag to compete with Alpha 65.
EOS 600D will be offered parallel as Canon always does when they bring out a new Rebel.

EOS 5D gets splitted in one high res version to counter the D800 for roughly the same price tag and one version with 18MP EOS 5DX (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/44755254/EOS-5DX.jpg) to replace the 7D for 1000€/$ less; dual Digic, 7-8 fps for that camera and please no video and reduced controls, get back to photography without movie functions, at least with one model.

With that lineup Canon can counter anything from Nikon (D800) and Sonys two Alphas. If necessary, they could still make a 7D Mk. II to counter the D400. In fact, I'd prefer that because even with the 5D split and a successor to the 7D Canon would still have the same camera count as before when they had two 1Ds.

This all is no problem for Canon if they'd just move their asses and show some more innovations; they have been luggish for too long for being the market leader.

AshtonNekolah

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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #80 on: February 14, 2012, 01:11:33 PM »
I really think this is a good move. I've said it before http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,2969.msg62520.html#msg62520, and I'll say it again - Canon should never have made the 7D as good as it is functionally with a crop sensor.  It's like putting a lawn-mower engine into a BMW convertible.

I should know as I own two 5DMarkII's and a 7D. I bought the 7D thinking it would be close to the 5D in image quality, or at least in the same ballpark. I was excited by its features and thought I could live with a small drop in IQ for the sake of all those other goodies. Unfortunately it's not even close. Makes sense though - the 5D Mark II has 2.56 times the surface area for the sensor, and sensor technology improves, but rarely by that amount in a year. The crop factor at 1.6x really does make a big difference.

So the current lineup is just freaking bizarre. In fact it's horrible. Here's why:

1. You have a fantastically featured awesome little camera with great autofocus, button layout, flash trigger capabilities, weather sealing, responsiveness...yadda yadda yadda.... but with a horrible sensor (by pro standards OK - compared to 5D Mark II) that make shots look very point-n-click like in the noise department, and even in the low light color rendition. That's the current 7D.

2. You have a camera with with pretty ordinary controls and features, poor environmental sealing, and one hell of an image sensor that carries it through sales time and time again (and pretty good video too I'm told). That's the 5D Mark II. It's so good in the IQ dept I bought two :)

That lineup is just whack and they should really do a sensor swap. Canon will address this by putting crop sensors solely back into the XXD line with the 70D, and boosting the features of the 5DmarkIII so they meet or surpass the 7D - guaranteed. Well shots per second *might* be down a bit, and there will be no onboard flash but these are the only exceptions I can think of). If they did kill the 7D line and put most of it's great features into the next 5D, then look out for a 5Dx moniker.

This is not a "hater's gonna hate". This is just telling it brutally as it is. I really wanted to love the 7D. I actually feel pretty cheated as I read the DPReview review on the 7D before buying and nothing gave me the indication that it was as bad as it is compared to the 5D2 image quality. Still I've learned my lesson and will never go back to any crop sensor - it's full frame or medium format from here on in. A Lightroom crop and sharpen will probably get me just as good a results as the sensor "crop factor" of the 7D, if I don't have a lens long enough for what I'm shooting. If your 7D ego has just been bruised then I suggest you get yourself a full frame camera and start pixel peeping and see the "full frame light" my friend - especially at ISO 400 and above, but it's still readily apparent at ISO100.

I welcome this news. Bravo Canon. Now just get the 5Dx right!  (edit:fixed typos)


Im in the same boat as you 1000% no more crops for me either.

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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #81 on: February 14, 2012, 01:23:42 PM »
Actually, not providing a follow up to the 7D does make sense if you think about a mirrorless camera coming soon...Remove the 7D from the high end and move everything up below it up one notch and now you have room at the lower to mid price range for a mirrorless camera...

So....
1Dx - $6900
5D X (?) - $3999-$4200
5D Mk3 - $2999
70D - $1999
T4i / Rebels - $1000-1500
Mirrorless - $899-1200
GX1 - Reduced to $699

at those prices Canon would be pricing themselves out of the market. When you are 1K over the competition (5DX) it makes jumping ship MUCH easier as many pros that I know might have many lenses, but only use one or 2 regularly. so a D800 with one lens makes it for all intents and purposes the same price as just the body of the 5DX. At 2K the 70D would have to be revolutionary, not just evolutionary. and the 650D at 1k means that the competition will eat them alive on new sales which are critical because that is when new customers buy into a system, and let's face it, most of the market that is at the xxxD level typically doesn't have the camera budget to switch back and forth between systems that much.

While I honestly want a 7DII, I don't care what they call it so long as the pricing stays below 1800-2K and they retain the body style and features.
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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #81 on: February 14, 2012, 01:23:42 PM »

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #82 on: February 14, 2012, 01:26:54 PM »
....and I'll say it again - Canon should never have made the 7D as good as it is functionally with a crop sensor.  It's like putting a lawn-mower engine into a BMW convertible.

I should know as I own two 5DMarkII's and a 7D. I bought the 7D thinking it would be close to the 5D in image quality, or at least in the same ballpark. I was excited by its features and thought I could live with a small drop in IQ for the sake of all those other goodies. Unfortunately it's not even close. Makes sense though - the 5D Mark II has 2.56 times the surface area for the sensor, and sensor technology improves, but rarely by that amount in a year. The crop factor at 1.6x really does make a big difference.

So the current lineup is just freaking bizarre. In fact it's horrible. Here's why:

1. You have a fantastically featured awesome little camera with great autofocus, button layout, flash trigger capabilities, weather sealing, responsiveness...yadda yadda yadda.... but with a horrible sensor (by pro standards OK - compared to 5D Mark II) that make shots look very point-n-click like in the noise department, and even in the low light color rendition. That's the current 7D.


If you are distance limited, the 7D sensor delivers a touch better than the 5D2, so what was so wrong with a little aps-c camera with better performance? Lots of people liked it.

And APS-C is less expensive and it's not like it performs that badly even when not distance limited, sure not as well as FF, although if you adjust aperture to make up for DOF the performance becomes much closer.



Quote
That lineup is just whack and they should really do a sensor swap. Canon will address this by putting crop sensors solely back into the XXD line with the 70D, and boosting the features of the 5DmarkIII so they meet or surpass the 7D - guaranteed. Well shots per second *might* be down a bit, and there will be no onboard flash but these are the only exceptions I can think of). If they did kill the 7D line and put most of it's great features into the next 5D, then look out for a 5Dx moniker.

certainly nothing wrong with boosting small body FF specs, I've been asking for that for ages but I don't think it has to kill off the 7D, at least unless it has at least 30-36MP sensor density and APS-C crop mode.


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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #83 on: February 14, 2012, 01:32:17 PM »
It just doesn't make any sense. Why would they do that?

That would be the 70D...

The 7D is a real oddity - a decidedly "pro" body with glaringly non-pro features (sensor, pop-up flash anyone?). Put a 22MP new-gen FF sensor in a 7D body, add the new 1Dx-derived AF tech, and you have the 5Dx. Every 7D/5D2 owner will buy one, probably two. Pump up the 60D with some 7D tech and bring back the xxD line to it's rightful place at the top of the APS-C heap. Wham-bam, Canon sells a gazillion cameras and Nikon fanboys gloat about their 36MP that no-one really wanted anyway ;)

Don't knock the pop-up flash, you never know.

Out of the blue we once got a call that the stanley cup was in town and that we needed to run and get some shots instantly, pop up flash sure provided some nice little fill flash for the first location they had it in and some pros there were in the same situation and going "gotta love the pop up!"

And it's nice for the occasional little snap shot or a sudden unexpected thing like a tree frog appearing at night when that was the last thing you were expecting to shoot, etc. Not everyone want to always drag an external flash along every single time they are out.

Don't knock it.


awinphoto

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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #84 on: February 14, 2012, 01:39:18 PM »
It just doesn't make any sense. Why would they do that?

That would be the 70D...

The 7D is a real oddity - a decidedly "pro" body with glaringly non-pro features (sensor, pop-up flash anyone?). Put a 22MP new-gen FF sensor in a 7D body, add the new 1Dx-derived AF tech, and you have the 5Dx. Every 7D/5D2 owner will buy one, probably two. Pump up the 60D with some 7D tech and bring back the xxD line to it's rightful place at the top of the APS-C heap. Wham-bam, Canon sells a gazillion cameras and Nikon fanboys gloat about their 36MP that no-one really wanted anyway ;)

Don't knock the pop-up flash, you never know.

Out of the blue we once got a call that the stanley cup was in town and that we needed to run and get some shots instantly, pop up flash sure provided some nice little fill flash for the first location they had it in and some pros there were in the same situation and going "gotta love the pop up!"

And it's nice for the occasional little snap shot or a sudden unexpected thing like a tree frog appearing at night when that was the last thing you were expecting to shoot, etc. Not everyone want to always drag an external flash along every single time they are out.

Don't knock it.

Also dont forget the D300, D300s, D700 AND the D800 all have pop up flashes.  All them, in the nikon lineup, are considered pro bodies.  Plus you got the wireless commander... It serves it's purpose for the Oh Crap moments.  Also dont forget the 7D was aimed squarely at the D300 and the D300s.  The 7D2 will likely be aimed squarely at the D400 or whatever it gets called when the time comes. 
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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #85 on: February 14, 2012, 01:57:17 PM »
It just doesn't make any sense. Why would they do that?

That would be the 70D...

The 7D is a real oddity - a decidedly "pro" body with glaringly non-pro features (sensor, pop-up flash anyone?). Put a 22MP new-gen FF sensor in a 7D body, add the new 1Dx-derived AF tech, and you have the 5Dx. Every 7D/5D2 owner will buy one, probably two. Pump up the 60D with some 7D tech and bring back the xxD line to it's rightful place at the top of the APS-C heap. Wham-bam, Canon sells a gazillion cameras and Nikon fanboys gloat about their 36MP that no-one really wanted anyway ;)

Don't knock the pop-up flash, you never know.

Out of the blue we once got a call that the stanley cup was in town and that we needed to run and get some shots instantly, pop up flash sure provided some nice little fill flash for the first location they had it in and some pros there were in the same situation and going "gotta love the pop up!"

And it's nice for the occasional little snap shot or a sudden unexpected thing like a tree frog appearing at night when that was the last thing you were expecting to shoot, etc. Not everyone want to always drag an external flash along every single time they are out.

Don't knock it.

Also dont forget the D300, D300s, D700 AND the D800 all have pop up flashes.  All them, in the nikon lineup, are considered pro bodies.  Plus you got the wireless commander... It serves it's purpose for the Oh Crap moments.  Also dont forget the 7D was aimed squarely at the D300 and the D300s.  The 7D2 will likely be aimed squarely at the D400 or whatever it gets called when the time comes.

The crop sensor is the big attraction of the 7D. Pop in a 22mp FF and you have a gelded wildlife camera. It's usefulness would be sorely degraded.

The 1.6 crop is the best teleconverter there is. My 300 2.8 would suddenly have the field of view of the 200 side of my 70-200 f2.8,

It would be folly and mischievous madness for Canon to adulterate the 7D. By the way, what do you think the D400 is going to be like? If Canon drops the ball on the 7D MK II, and Nikon gets the D400 right, a lot of people are going to be looking long and hard at the other side of the fence. 
What is truth?

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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #86 on: February 14, 2012, 02:03:09 PM »
If this rumor is true I want to know who was the bird/sport/wildlife shooter that really pis anoyed the Canon execs? Kill the 1D4 and now kill the 7D?

If you merge the 7D into the 70D what will it cost for a xxxD shooter to move up to the 70D? Will they pay that much? Well, if they just move the present 7D into the smaller body they could save the development cost of a 7D2 but then what will 7D users do for an upgrade?

A question for the FF shooters that keep telling us to move up to FF. Do you shoot a supertelephoto + an extender? If I shot weddings and events there is no way I would have bought a second 7D rather than a 5D2 but I don't. At times I really need a 1120mm FOV (500mm x 1.4 x 1.6).

Perhaps I should buy a 1D4 before they are all gone, that way I would have f/8 AF with the lower crop.
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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #87 on: February 14, 2012, 02:06:56 PM »
If this rumor is true I want to know who was the bird/sport/wildlife shooter that really pis anoyed the Canon execs? Kill the 1D4 and now kill the 7D?

If you merge the 7D into the 70D what will it cost for a xxxD shooter to move up to the 70D? Will they pay that much? Well, if they just move the present 7D into the smaller body they could save the development cost of a 7D2 but then what will 7D users do for an upgrade?

A question for the FF shooters that keep telling us to move up to FF. Do you shoot a supertelephoto + an extender? If I shot weddings and events there is no way I would have bought a second 7D rather than a 5D2 but I don't. At times I really need a 1120mm FOV (500mm x 1.4 x 1.6).

Perhaps I should buy a 1D4 before they are all gone, that way I would have f/8 AF with the lower crop. With what I have invested in white lenses and the nearly 2X increase in the prices of the Mark II superteles there is no way I could switch to the dark side.
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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #87 on: February 14, 2012, 02:06:56 PM »

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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #88 on: February 14, 2012, 02:10:25 PM »
If this rumor is true I want to know who was the bird/sport/wildlife shooter that really pis anoyed the Canon execs? Kill the 1D4 and now kill the 7D?

If you merge the 7D into the 70D what will it cost for a xxxD shooter to move up to the 70D? Will they pay that much? Well, if they just move the present 7D into the smaller body they could save the development cost of a 7D2 but then what will 7D users do for an upgrade?

A question for the FF shooters that keep telling us to move up to FF. Do you shoot a supertelephoto + an extender? If I shot weddings and events there is no way I would have bought a second 7D rather than a 5D2 but I don't. At times I really need a 1120mm FOV (500mm x 1.4 x 1.6).

Perhaps I should buy a 1D4 before they are all gone, that way I would have f/8 AF with the lower crop. With what I have invested in white lenses and the nearly 2X increase in the prices of the Mark II superteles there is no way I could switch to the dark side.
Why are you quoting your own post? :o
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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #89 on: February 14, 2012, 02:11:08 PM »
It would be folly and mischievous madness for Canon to adulterate the 7D. By the way, what do you think the D400 is going to be like? If Canon drops the ball on the 7D MK II, and Nikon gets the D400 right, a lot of people are going to be looking long and hard at the other side of the fence.

I feel the same way.  As i said before, I really cannot see Canon pumping out a canon 7d2 until A) the market demands of such a camera and B) when competition demands of such a camera.  Few times has canon went ahead of nikon in announcement dates... mainly because they are playing chicken with nikon.  In 09 they released the 50D, then nikon released the D90 which had video which made Canon shooters go up in arms that the 50D didn't have video, and then Canon responded with the 5d2. 

I think, like the 5d3 and the D800, canon is really looking at market surveys, and looking at their customers demands are before announcing/releasing the 5d3, and I think they will do the same with the 7d2 and the D400.  It's a big chess match and they aren't going to make their move unless a move is to be made or their hand if forced into doing so. 
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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #89 on: February 14, 2012, 02:11:08 PM »