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Author Topic: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]  (Read 40065 times)

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #90 on: February 14, 2012, 02:12:29 PM »
It just doesn't make any sense. Why would they do that?

That would be the 70D...

The 7D is a real oddity - a decidedly "pro" body with glaringly non-pro features (sensor, pop-up flash anyone?). Put a 22MP new-gen FF sensor in a 7D body, add the new 1Dx-derived AF tech, and you have the 5Dx. Every 7D/5D2 owner will buy one, probably two. Pump up the 60D with some 7D tech and bring back the xxD line to it's rightful place at the top of the APS-C heap. Wham-bam, Canon sells a gazillion cameras and Nikon fanboys gloat about their 36MP that no-one really wanted anyway ;)

Don't knock the pop-up flash, you never know.

Out of the blue we once got a call that the stanley cup was in town and that we needed to run and get some shots instantly, pop up flash sure provided some nice little fill flash for the first location they had it in and some pros there were in the same situation and going "gotta love the pop up!"

And it's nice for the occasional little snap shot or a sudden unexpected thing like a tree frog appearing at night when that was the last thing you were expecting to shoot, etc. Not everyone want to always drag an external flash along every single time they are out.

Don't knock it.

Also dont forget the D300, D300s, D700 AND the D800 all have pop up flashes.  All them, in the nikon lineup, are considered pro bodies.  Plus you got the wireless commander... It serves it's purpose for the Oh Crap moments.  Also dont forget the 7D was aimed squarely at the D300 and the D300s.  The 7D2 will likely be aimed squarely at the D400 or whatever it gets called when the time comes.

The crop sensor is the big attraction of the 7D. Pop in a 22mp FF and you have a gelded wildlife camera. It's usefulness would be sorely degraded.

The 1.6 crop is the best teleconverter there is. My 300 2.8 would suddenly have the field of view of the 200 side of my 70-200 f2.8,

It would be folly and mischievous madness for Canon to adulterate the 7D. By the way, what do you think the D400 is going to be like? If Canon drops the ball on the 7D MK II, and Nikon gets the D400 right, a lot of people are going to be looking long and hard at the other side of the fence.

If its true that they're ending the 7D line, then nikon execs must be licking their chops, if canon does not even offer a pro/semi-pro crop, then nikon doesn't even have to get it right as it were. 
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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #90 on: February 14, 2012, 02:12:29 PM »

DzPhotography

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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #91 on: February 14, 2012, 02:14:04 PM »
Any of you guys come to think of it there might not be a 7DMkII RIGHT NOW or ANYTIME SOON? Nikon and Canon are currently occupied in upgrading their FF products, and may not have sufficient funds to also develop new APS-C sensors?
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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #92 on: February 14, 2012, 02:14:44 PM »
If this rumor is true I want to know who was the bird/sport/wildlife shooter that really pis anoyed the Canon execs? Kill the 1D4 and now kill the 7D?

If you merge the 7D into the 70D what will it cost for a xxxD shooter to move up to the 70D? Will they pay that much? Well, if they just move the present 7D into the smaller body they could save the development cost of a 7D2 but then what will 7D users do for an upgrade?

A question for the FF shooters that keep telling us to move up to FF. Do you shoot a supertelephoto + an extender? If I shot weddings and events there is no way I would have bought a second 7D rather than a 5D2 but I don't. At times I really need a 1120mm FOV (500mm x 1.4 x 1.6).

Perhaps I should buy a 1D4 before they are all gone, that way I would have f/8 AF with the lower crop.

Canon is crazy. It's almost like they want the wildlife people to jump ship. Arthur Morris has been pretty tight-lipped on his blog about his opinion on the 1DX, but a few complaints have slipped through from time to time, especially about the no F8 AF.

To get the same FOV as my 7D with a 300 2.8, I would need a 500 F4. Bigger, heavier, expensiver, less hand-held. To get the same FOV as my 300 2.8 + 2x TC, I would need either to slap on a 2x TC and get a 1000 f8 with no AF, or go for a 800 5.6 with a 1.4x TC and... ...wait a minute, still NO AF!!!

Plus, that little bit of extra depth of field HELPS. Ever shot herons? On my 7D, I usually need to stop down to F8. If I were using FF, I would be stopping my 500 F4 down to f11. More diffraction, more high ISO to get a shutterspeed >1000...

A crop body just plain makes sense.
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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #93 on: February 14, 2012, 02:25:51 PM »
Why are you quoting your own post? :o

He meant to click Modify, but clicked Quote instead.  I do that from time to time.
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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #94 on: February 14, 2012, 02:28:36 PM »
Any of you guys come to think of it there might not be a 7DMkII RIGHT NOW or ANYTIME SOON? Nikon and Canon are currently occupied in upgrading their FF products, and may not have sufficient funds to also develop new APS-C sensors?

Thats my POV
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DzPhotography

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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #95 on: February 14, 2012, 02:28:59 PM »
Why are you quoting your own post? :o

He meant to click Modify, but clicked Quote instead.  I do that from time to time.
Ok, now i understand  ;)
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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #96 on: February 14, 2012, 02:31:34 PM »
If this rumor is true I want to know who was the bird/sport/wildlife shooter that really pis anoyed the Canon execs? Kill the 1D4 and now kill the 7D?

If you merge the 7D into the 70D what will it cost for a xxxD shooter to move up to the 70D? Will they pay that much? Well, if they just move the present 7D into the smaller body they could save the development cost of a 7D2 but then what will 7D users do for an upgrade?

A question for the FF shooters that keep telling us to move up to FF. Do you shoot a supertelephoto + an extender? If I shot weddings and events there is no way I would have bought a second 7D rather than a 5D2 but I don't. At times I really need a 1120mm FOV (500mm x 1.4 x 1.6).

Perhaps I should buy a 1D4 before they are all gone, that way I would have f/8 AF with the lower crop.

Canon is crazy. It's almost like they want the wildlife people to jump ship. Arthur Morris has been pretty tight-lipped on his blog about his opinion on the 1DX, but a few complaints have slipped through from time to time, especially about the no F8 AF.

To get the same FOV as my 7D with a 300 2.8, I would need a 500 F4. Bigger, heavier, expensiver, less hand-held. To get the same FOV as my 300 2.8 + 2x TC, I would need either to slap on a 2x TC and get a 1000 f8 with no AF, or go for a 800 5.6 with a 1.4x TC and... ...wait a minute, still NO AF!!!

Plus, that little bit of extra depth of field HELPS. Ever shot herons? On my 7D, I usually need to stop down to F8. If I were using FF, I would be stopping my 500 F4 down to f11. More diffraction, more high ISO to get a shutterspeed >1000...

A crop body just plain makes sense.

Once again this is all hypothetical and no one knows for sure until it is for sure.  So i think we should cool down on the reaction of killing off any camera until it is confirmed or denied by having the 7d2 announced.  We are all prisoners of the moment.
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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #96 on: February 14, 2012, 02:31:34 PM »

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #97 on: February 14, 2012, 02:42:43 PM »
Any of you guys come to think of it there might not be a 7DMkII RIGHT NOW or ANYTIME SOON? Nikon and Canon are currently occupied in upgrading their FF products, and may not have sufficient funds to also develop new APS-C sensors?

I'd say this makes a whole lot more sense, and what I hope to be true.  The one flaw here is the sufficient funds part, if there is a 7d mkii (and the nikon equivilant) in the works, I doubt they're holding out on it due to finances.  What I think may make more sense is that they don't want to distract people from the high end products right now.  So they started at the top, 1dx.  The next thing that came was lenses, and from the looks of there there are quite a few new ones and upgrades on older ones.  A ton of lenses, and 2 maybe 3 FF bodies, there's definitely some logic in making sure all eyes are on those products...

And following that logic, its probably within the realm of possibility that they may want us to also believe there is no 7d mkII, why?  same logic as above, those of us on the 7D may leap to a 5D mkiii because for the time being, there is no upgrade to be had other than that, and, if the 7D is 'rumored' to be discontinued, well then, it really becomes the only upgrade path...

With all that said - (even if it isn't true!) as long as the perception is that the xD line is better than the xxD line, and the xxD line is better than the xxxD line - how many of us will honestly believe they're upgrading if they move to from xD to xxD? 

And ya never know, if this is how it is and will go, many of us will save for a 5dmkii, but end up buying a 7dmkii, because come next year we would still not have enough saved for the 5d, but, that $2000 in the account might very well be enough for a 7dmkii...

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DzPhotography

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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #98 on: February 14, 2012, 02:45:52 PM »
Any of you guys come to think of it there might not be a 7DMkII RIGHT NOW or ANYTIME SOON? Nikon and Canon are currently occupied in upgrading their FF products, and may not have sufficient funds to also develop new APS-C sensors?

I'd say this makes a whole lot more sense, and what I hope to be true.  The one flaw here is the sufficient funds part, if there is a 7d mkii (and the nikon equivilant) in the works, I doubt they're holding out on it due to finances.  What I think may make more sense is that they don't want to distract people from the high end products right now.  So they started at the top, 1dx.  The next thing that came was lenses, and from the looks of there there are quite a few new ones and upgrades on older ones.  A ton of lenses, and 2 maybe 3 FF bodies, there's definitely some logic in making sure all eyes are on those products...

And following that logic, its probably within the realm of possibility that they may want us to also believe there is no 7d mkII, why?  same logic as above, those of us on the 7D may leap to a 5D mkiii because for the time being, there is no upgrade to be had other than that, and, if the 7D is 'rumored' to be discontinued, well then, it really becomes the only upgrade path...

With all that said - (even if it isn't true!) as long as the perception is that the xD line is better than the xxD line, and the xxD line is better than the xxxD line - how many of us will honestly believe they're upgrading if they move to from xD to xxD? 

And ya never know, if this is how it is and will go, many of us will save for a 5dmkii, but end up buying a 7dmkii, because come next year we would still not have enough saved for the 5d, but, that $2000 in the account might very well be enough for a 7dmkii...

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Exactly my point ;) I agree that it maybe has to do with marketing strategy
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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #99 on: February 14, 2012, 02:56:26 PM »
To get the same FOV as my 7D with a 300 2.8, I would need a 500 F4. Bigger, heavier, expensiver, less hand-held. To get the same FOV as my 300 2.8 + 2x TC, I would need either to slap on a 2x TC and get a 1000 f8 with no AF, or go for a 800 5.6 with a 1.4x TC and... ...wait a minute, still NO AF!!!

Plus, that little bit of extra depth of field HELPS. Ever shot herons? On my 7D, I usually need to stop down to F8. If I were using FF, I would be stopping my 500 F4 down to f11. More diffraction, more high ISO to get a shutterspeed >1000...

A crop body just plain makes sense.
There is one other alternative: high MP full frame so you can crop. I want the 45MP rumour to be true just for that, as you can recover crop reach at no cost by cropping, plus the side benefit of your zooms being extended on the wide end by having the bigger sensor. The only small hindrance to all that is shifting high MP at high fps is going to be killer, unless they perhaps offer crop modes with overlay guide lines in the viewfinder.

Just as a numerical example, assuming a 4fps 45MP full frame sensor that was processing limited not mirror limited, you could have 1.3x crop at almost 7fps and 26MP, and 1.6 crop at almost 18MP and 10fps.
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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #100 on: February 14, 2012, 03:14:30 PM »
Excuse me? I should stop taking pictures and start pixel peeping to justify the weight and the cost of full frame?
Ignore him - another bad workman, blaming his tools.


You may believe the 7D is better than the pro camera, he may believe that the pro cameras are better than the 7D.

Agree to disagree but please dont be rude about it

awinphoto

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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #101 on: February 14, 2012, 03:21:23 PM »
To get the same FOV as my 7D with a 300 2.8, I would need a 500 F4. Bigger, heavier, expensiver, less hand-held. To get the same FOV as my 300 2.8 + 2x TC, I would need either to slap on a 2x TC and get a 1000 f8 with no AF, or go for a 800 5.6 with a 1.4x TC and... ...wait a minute, still NO AF!!!

Plus, that little bit of extra depth of field HELPS. Ever shot herons? On my 7D, I usually need to stop down to F8. If I were using FF, I would be stopping my 500 F4 down to f11. More diffraction, more high ISO to get a shutterspeed >1000...

A crop body just plain makes sense.
There is one other alternative: high MP full frame so you can crop. I want the 45MP rumour to be true just for that, as you can recover crop reach at no cost by cropping, plus the side benefit of your zooms being extended on the wide end by having the bigger sensor. The only small hindrance to all that is shifting high MP at high fps is going to be killer, unless they perhaps offer crop modes with overlay guide lines in the viewfinder.

Just as a numerical example, assuming a 4fps 45MP full frame sensor that was processing limited not mirror limited, you could have 1.3x crop at almost 7fps and 26MP, and 1.6 crop at almost 18MP and 10fps.

You know, i have a very mixed feeling about this attitude of just cropping in post... when I was much younger, I used to shoot some kids baseball games, and because my grandpa gave me one, I shot with a medium format kowa.  I had the 80mm (normal lens) and the 150mm (telephoto, like a 100mm on 35mm).  It wasn't as telephoto as some of the kids 35mm PAS pocket cameras, but in the end, i knew in the back of my mind, i could take that medium format film and crop in the enlarger to get as good of photos as they could get with the PAS cameras, but when parents wanted to see contact sheets to see if they wanted to have me print out any, even though I explained I could crop and get a great composition, they just couldn't visualize it in their minds eye.  In the professional arena now, it's much easier and quicker to show a client on the fly a crop, but still to many, the idea of cropping still boggles peoples minds if the image isn't cropped perfect in the camera.  while you and I and every other artistic minded person knows better, it's hard to convince a client... hey, I have this shot perfect, all I need to do is crop it.  There's just something, at times, to have a crop camera do it for you automatically to remove any doubt from clients minds. 
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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #102 on: February 14, 2012, 03:29:40 PM »
There's just something, at times, to have a crop camera do it for you automatically to remove any doubt from clients minds.
I don't have to worry about this simply by not having "clients", but how often do you get clients looking at a DSLR output before processing? I just can't imagine that being a major problem. Might also be a "type of photography" difference too?
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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #102 on: February 14, 2012, 03:29:40 PM »

awinphoto

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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #103 on: February 14, 2012, 03:40:50 PM »
There's just something, at times, to have a crop camera do it for you automatically to remove any doubt from clients minds.
I don't have to worry about this simply by not having "clients", but how often do you get clients looking at a DSLR output before processing? I just can't imagine that being a major problem. Might also be a "type of photography" difference too?

Sometimes I get the oddball that will want to, sometimes not.  Sometimes, when shooting as a second shooter, you dont even get the chance to look at your own images after your done with the shoot, you just handoff the card to the primary shooter and they do what they want.  Sometimes when I shoot with a model, I'll show them a file or two when I get a few great shots to boost their confidence a bit.  Sometimes if they client really wants to have a "say" as to how the shoot is going...  I shot for my clients, even if it isn't exactly what I would like for my portfolio per se, if they are happy, then i'm good.  Some clients are trusting that you are the professional and you can get them a good final product, some clients, while they trust you, will want to have their art director at the shoot and you almost have to shoot tethered so they can proof every shot.  Sometimes they are just nosey and want to make sure, while i take care of the actual photograph, they want to make sure thee isn't anything extra they could do to aid me with their product to get the best result, like chefs for example. This is why I try to get everything as perfect as I can in camera and then do minor post production, cropping, color balance if needed, etc. 

It's all about having the right tool for the job... sometimes its a crop camera, sometimes full frame, but if i know a file is going to need extensive cropping, I'll shoot a crop camera over a full frame anyday if I dont have access to a lens that can compensate for me. 
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 03:42:47 PM by awinphoto »
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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #104 on: February 14, 2012, 04:03:57 PM »
Why are you quoting your own post? :o

He meant to click Modify, but clicked Quote instead.  I do that from time to time.
Ok, now i understand  ;)

I now understand too.

Thanks Neuroanatomist. I just got back on and couldn't figure how I got the second post three minutes after the first. Didn't bother to read the second either. Thought I might have double clicked and it reposted but wondered why did it take three minutes.
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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #104 on: February 14, 2012, 04:03:57 PM »