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Author Topic: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]  (Read 38321 times)

AvTvM

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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #45 on: February 14, 2012, 09:38:30 AM »
To me this rumor is not credible at all.

Canon has every reason to follow up on the enormously successful 7D with another top-level APS-C camera.

There are so many enthusiasts who own or are willing to buy "the good" EF-S lenses (17-55, 15-85, 10-22,  60 Macro). Majority of them are not willing/financially able to step up to big $ fullframe. The 5D II successor(s) will most likely be more expensive than the 5D II launch - probably around 3k $ for the body. Plus immediate  major upgrade cost for expensive, FF-capable wide-angle lenses ... 24-70 II, 16-35 II, 24 II, 14 II, 35/1.4 or the new 24/2.8, 28/2.8.

At the same time anybody who has used a 7D for a while will most likely not want to step down to the consumer-style bodies 60D or rebels with poor AF.

From my perspective it would make most sense to continue with the 2-tiered rebel series with a cheap end (currently 1100D) and a mid-level offering (currently 600D) plus a top-tier 7D II and discontinue the former xxD line altogether. 

I will upgrade to a 7D II if it can fully match an upcoming Nikon D400. In terms of sensor/IQ, electronics, performance/responsiveness, and especially AF ... most likely that would mean the 7D II should "inherit" the current 1D IV AF system (45 pt). In addition I would like it to get a tilt-swivel display (like the 60D). If they offer such a camera at $ 1800 launch price it will sell extremely well again and will leave hardly ny room or need for a  70D.

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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #45 on: February 14, 2012, 09:38:30 AM »

adebrophy

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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #46 on: February 14, 2012, 09:47:21 AM »
I'm one of those in line for a 7Dmk 2 so initially a bit put out by this rumour. I have a 40D but want to go up a level on AF and build. Having had the later XXD series models made more consumery, it was clear that as a crop user with money invested in EF-S the 7D was the way forward being offered buy Canon to users like me.

However, I'd agree that if a 70D reverses the downgrade of the XXD line then I'd probably be perfectly happy with it if it delivered like the 7D.

BUT.

My worry is that this could be a move to split the users more cleanly between EF-S consumer users on the one hand - who get lower featured, weaker constructed bodies and people going FF who buy L glass.

From a revenue/marketing perspective this could make a lot of sense for Canon, who probably find users like me frustrating. Today I have a mid-tier body, and use this with a mix of EF-S, EF and the one cherished L lens I could afford. The biggest reason for not going FF is my Sigma 10-22, which I love and don't need/want to replace just because I have a new body. With a 7D line I can forever hedge my bets on lenses even as I get more demanding of my body. Now to build on the personal example, if Canon encourage a whole segment of users like this then they risk undermining the market for the 5D. Maybe that's the biggest problem presented by the 7D and the biggest reason to lose it.

Flaw in this argument is all the shooters who do need the crop for pro reasons. Guess they need to be catered for...
5D mk ii, 40D, Canon 24-105 L, Canon 100 f2.8 L, Canon 135 f2 L, Canon 40mm f2.8, Canon 70-200 f4L,  Canon 50 f1.8, Canon 600 EX RT, 2x Canon 430ii

BXL

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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #47 on: February 14, 2012, 09:49:47 AM »
From my perspective it would make most sense to continue with the 2-tiered rebel series with a cheap end (currently 1100D) and a mid-level offering (currently 600D) plus a top-tier 7D II and discontinue the former xxD line altogether.
I am just an amateur photographer with some other hobbies as well... the 7D (or an more expensive upgrade) lies not within my budget, however I want a better AF-system than that of xxxD/rebel line. The xxD line is at the moment the next logical (and financial) upgrade for many people who own a xxxD/rebel and I don't see a reason why canon should drop this camera line/price range. I like the 60D and most likely will get it or its successor this autumn.
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docsmith

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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #48 on: February 14, 2012, 09:59:57 AM »
If true, I hope the 70D is essentially the 7DII.  I am less concerned about the name than the performance.  I currently own the 7D and have very little interest to go FF as I love the reach with my 100-400L.  But I do want some improvements in ISO, DR and color performance.  Package that into a weather sealed, metal body with similar to improved AF and you can call it whatever you would like, I'll buy it.

To quickly judge this rumor, it does make some sense.  The xxD and xxxD is a jumbled mess and moving the xxD to take the place of the 7D would help clear that up.  Also, Canon likes to differentiate things in odd ways, sometimes symbolically (no "L" EFS lenses).  It would not completely surprise me if they wanted the next generation of xD bodies to be exclusively FF.

That said, I hope to keep the 7D line as the top end, semi-pro APS-C body.

DJL329

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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #49 on: February 14, 2012, 10:02:26 AM »
I will probably get dinged hard for this, but if there is no pro level crop sensor camera coming out in the next year, I will almost certainly get a Nikon 800D when it comes out. You can shoot a 1.5 crop on that at 16MP at 6fps gripped. Not too shabby.

The 7D came out as a counter to the 300D and has been a huge success. I can't see Canon just surrendering this market to Nikon. It just doesn't make any sense. Why would they do that?

And what if the "5DX" has 61pt AF and 6.9fps, as the rumors suggest?
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liberace

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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #50 on: February 14, 2012, 10:11:02 AM »
Now 5D2 focus, shutter lag, shutter noise, these are other issue altogether... the 7D is a real upgrade in each of these, which is why a FF 5D/7D merge makes so much sense!

I can't say I really understand this at all. Why does the 7D line need to be deleted in order to improve the next 5D? Surely it would make more sense to just... improve the next 5D. I don't see how certain features in the 7D line precludes them from being in any future 5D. Most of these features are simply because the camera is newer.

unfocused

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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #51 on: February 14, 2012, 10:14:34 AM »
While I fully understand that naming conventions are arbitrary (doesn't really matter what the camera is called, as long as it has the features), this doesn't make sense for at least two simple reasons:

1) Companies don't usually re-brand their higher end products with the name of a lower-end product.

2) The XX-D naming convention has the practical problem of running out of numbers: it gets you through 90D, but after that, then what? Nikon made this mistake with its naming convention. Canon has avoided it with its "Mark X" naming convention. It's a small thing, but I don't see Canon dropping the 7D Mk X convention for a straight numerical system that requires them to re-brand the model again in a few years.

I do agree that there has never been enough separation between the 60D and the Rebel line, but that's an argument for dropping the XXD line, not the XD line.

I'm also a little amused by the suggestion that adding more autofocus points to the 5D would make the 7D unnecessary. Seems to me to just be a fantasy of the full-frame fetishists who can't accept that some of us actually prefer our 7Ds.

It appears to me that with the new 5D Canon is going to "fix" the one thing users didn't like – autofocus – and then play around the margins with minor improvements to ISO, noise, dynamic range, etc.

I expect that for the 7D, Canon will concentrate on the things that 7D users would like to see improved – ISO, noise and dynamic range – and then play around the margins on autofocus improvements.
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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #51 on: February 14, 2012, 10:14:34 AM »

awinphoto

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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #52 on: February 14, 2012, 10:16:11 AM »
I think there is no immediate need for a mark II right now and it is still sitting pretty compared to competition, so unless there is a need or they find themselves behind the gun to make a new one, they could probably hold fire.  Just because they can doesn't mean they should pump out a new one, especially in such a volatile economy.  I think they should pump out a 70D or whatever the heck they want to call it and let that run, maybe have a few FPS slower than the 7D, maybe the 9 AF, maybe 13 or 19 AF... Maybe the 19 AF points but no zones, just all or 1 point... stuff like that so there is differentiation but not as much before so it keeps it somewhat relevant and then when the time comes, then upgrade it. 
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Birdshooter

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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #53 on: February 14, 2012, 10:21:04 AM »

And what if the "5DX" has 61pt AF and 6.9fps, as the rumors suggest?

It would mean a drop of 10 MP as a 22MP FF is 8.5 MP cropped.

What concerns me more is if the 7D line will be adopted by the xxD line again, what will happen to the micro adjustment? The only body in the xxD that had it was the 50D, to be dropped again with the 60D.

dilbert

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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #54 on: February 14, 2012, 10:24:36 AM »

And what if the "5DX" has 61pt AF and 6.9fps, as the rumors suggest?

It would mean a drop of 10 MP as a 22MP FF is 8.5 MP cropped.

What concerns me more is if the 7D line will be adopted by the xxD line again, what will happen to the micro adjustment? The only body in the xxD that had it was the 50D, to be dropped again with the 60D.

If the xxD becomes a higher end camera then features such as micro-adjustment can be reintroduced.

liberace

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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #55 on: February 14, 2012, 10:26:58 AM »
I also think that the floods/earth quake has played its part in the lack of xxD / xxxD line differences. The higher end cameras are now outside of Canon's historical upgrade timeframes, which has allowed the lower end cameras to slowly suffer congestion. The consumer market upgrades more frequenty, slowly taking up features higher models previously had, only there haven't been any higher models. This has meant that frequently refreshed models have no room to improve, causing their feature overlap to increase, and differences to decrease.

DzPhotography

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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #56 on: February 14, 2012, 10:27:47 AM »
The only thing I want is the best pro body for my 17-55 2.8 IS. Right now, its still the 7D, right?



The difference in IQ between 600D, 60D en 7D is not big. Same sensor. Maybe very small difference in terms of ISO noise though I am not sure.


A new camera with new APS-C sensor will for sure give better IQ with your 17-55 2.8.
Not likely this lens wil be updated soon
but right now, as Dbleznak asked, it's still the 7D... ::)



I would say so.
DxOMark does not have a comparison of the Canon 17-55 2.8 with a Canon 60D or 600D
It only tested with the 7D (and older APS-C Canon camera's)
Here is the link: http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Lenses/Camera-Lens-Database/Canon/EF-S-17-55-f-2.8-IS-USM/(camera)/619/(cameraname)/CANON-EOS-7D
To my knowledge, 60D and 600D have the same sensor as the 7D, but only one Digic-CPU and not so good AF
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awinphoto

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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #57 on: February 14, 2012, 10:33:25 AM »

And what if the "5DX" has 61pt AF and 6.9fps, as the rumors suggest?

It would mean a drop of 10 MP as a 22MP FF is 8.5 MP cropped.

What concerns me more is if the 7D line will be adopted by the xxD line again, what will happen to the micro adjustment? The only body in the xxD that had it was the 50D, to be dropped again with the 60D.

I am failing to see the panic about the 7D line if the 5d2 line comes out higher spec'd to the 7d?  It would likely be over $1000 difference in price, if not more given the 7D current price point... The 5d is supposed to be higher spec than the 7D... why on earth would 7D owners in their right mind jump down to the 5D2 for any other reason than the full frame sensor?  Really?  Seriously?  The 5d3 needs to be higher spec in order keep canon shooters evolving upwards through the canon line.  This is why I said the 7D doesn't need an upgrade per se... it debuted as the king of the APS-C line above nikons D300(s) and sony and recently had stiff competition from sony, but really, the 7D still holds well.  Plus, for some shooters, they wouldn't buy the 5d3 anyways because of price restrictions and other issues and 5d3 target audience may not be willing to go to an APS-C sensor, so the line is still in the sand... I know we are all prisoners of the moment, but stop fretting over nothing.  And oh yeah... the king of the line will still get the extra features so dont fret about the micro adjust... it will still be there. 
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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #57 on: February 14, 2012, 10:33:25 AM »

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #58 on: February 14, 2012, 10:37:45 AM »
Because the true succession was 40D -> 50D -> 7D

The 60D is closer to a "slightly improved" 600D. Is Canon allowing Nikon to be alone? Hardly.

I don't agree... true, the 60D lost some minor features of the 50D but the gap between those two cameras is very small compared to the 7D.

The xxD line has 9 cross-type AF points, compared to the 7D with it's 19 cross-type AF points. So, if a 70D would be the successor of the 7D, what type of AF will it get? An improved version of the 40/50/60D or an improved version of the 19 cross-type AF of the 7D?

And if this would be the case and the 70D would replace both 60D and 7D, which means also that the 70D will be priced similar to the 7D (~1500 US$), than there is a hugh gab between the 60D/7D successor and the xxx/rebel product line. I don't believe that the xxx/rebel line (1 cross-type AF point) will receive the AF of the xxD product line and I don't believe that canon will leave such a gab in its product portfolio.

So if those rumors are true, then something has to fill the gap. And don't forget, the rebel name is only used in the US/Canada. In other markets the rebel name is unknown.


Ugggg, reading this, if its true and this is the plan, it does make it very hard on emerging pros without big pockets.  The 7D line commanded at least a bit of respect, so its really hard to not see it as a downgrade to move to a XXd from a Xd.  Plus,at least given the old price structure - the 7d filled a niche in both capabilities and price (fitting nicely between the 5D and the 50/60D. 

If this is true then we'll have a huge gap -
 
$1500 70D
and oh, if you want anything better:
$3000 5dmkiii

I guess the only real hope for those in my shoes is that it becomes a buyers market once the 5dmkiii is out on 5dmkii's (which mkii users probably don't want to hear).

I am truly hoping that canon doesn't force the issue like that and leave such a big gap in price and quality.  There's gotta be room for a 1.6 crop semi-pro body, something that can have its price point land at $1900-2300????

a merged line, 60D/7D  falling in at $1500???  I'm just having a hard time seeing that as being an actual upgrade on the 7D.  If your on the 60D, then yes a 70D would be a nice thing to look forward too.  But damn you canon, thanks for forcing my hand - if there's no viable upgrade to the 7D in the 1.6 crop world - its timeto go FF and incur all the other costs of doing that (replacing my 10-22 with a 16-35, then adding something in the 300mm range, while putting filter upgrades on hold due to the new 82mm filter thread size needed for the newer L series lenses......)

Its a move i need to make anyways, but damn you canon if this rumor is true cause that really forces my hand...

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well_dunno

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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #59 on: February 14, 2012, 10:44:35 AM »
I think they might remerge 60D and 7D into one line, may that be 7D mk2 or 70D. Whatever it is, it would be better than 7D I imagine... Also, probably XXXD line would get better specs if this happens.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2012, 10:52:40 AM by well_dunno »

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Re: No 7D Mark II? [CR1]
« Reply #59 on: February 14, 2012, 10:44:35 AM »