December 16, 2017, 05:56:19 AM

Author Topic: DPReview reviews the A7R3  (Read 5362 times)

Woody

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2017, 08:59:44 PM »
IMHO, the withdrawal of support for PlayMemories in the latest Sony releases (A9, A7RIII etc) is a lousy decision. They've just lost another positive to counter the weaknesses (poor ergonomics, hopeless menu organization etc) of the system.
Seems like a list picked from internet by someone who never used that cameras - usual story.
Otherwise one would know that a7r2 and especially  a9 are  much more customizable cameras even  than 1dxm2.

My company owns 3 copies of A7S, 1 copy of A7SII, 1 copy of A7R and 1 copy of A9 with Sony FE 24-70 f/4 and multiple copies of FE 70-200 f/2.8 GM OSS.

I have used them all. I know what I am talking about.

The A9 is an improvement, but the ergonomics still s***s.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2017, 09:02:18 PM by Woody »

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2017, 08:59:44 PM »

Dylan777

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2017, 09:02:26 PM »

If you spent 30 mins to customize camera for your needs you do not ned to go to menu system in 99.9% of you time.

Agreed. I access the menu for exactly 4 reasons:
Toggle Setting Effect on or off depending on ambient light conditions
Format memory card
Toggle RAW quality
Toggle airplane mode and wirelessly transfer photos

When my Riii gets here, I plan to map them all to the new custom menu. I'm also hoping setting effect is mappable to a custom button (I'd use the video button which is finally mappable), and alternately use the 1,2,3 settings memory selections to record that change, as well as uncompressed RAW (it's still annoying that they don't offer lossless compression).

If it works the way I'm planning, I'd only go to the menus to format and initiate wireless transfer, both from the custom menu.

Look forward to hear from you on a7r III. Crossing my fingers on A7s III to have similar specs as 7r III.

New grip on A9 is much more friendly, especially with f1.4 primes and f2.8 GM lenses. The new battery is awesome. If you can get one extra, shooting all day is no longer an issue. I dont know what A9 II has to offer in near future, current A9 is more than what I can dream for  ;)




Dylan777

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2017, 09:10:42 PM »
IMHO, the withdrawal of support for PlayMemories in the latest Sony releases (A9, A7RIII etc) is a lousy decision. They've just lost another positive to counter the weaknesses (poor ergonomics, hopeless menu organization etc) of the system.
Seems like a list picked from internet by someone who never used that cameras - usual story.
Otherwise one would know that a7r2 and especially  a9 are  much more customizable cameras even  than 1dxm2.

My company owns 3 copies of A7S, 1 copy of A7SII, 1 copy of A7R and 1 copy of A9 with Sony FE 24-70 f/4 and multiple copies of FE 70-200 f/2.8 GM OSS.

I have used them all. I know what I am talking about.

The A9 is an improvement, but the ergonomics still s***s.

Same feeling when I hold 1dx ii plus 70200f2.8 II L at local Samys  ;D
« Last Edit: November 24, 2017, 09:12:45 PM by Dylan777 »

bwud

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2017, 10:21:47 PM »

If you spent 30 mins to customize camera for your needs you do not ned to go to menu system in 99.9% of you time.

Agreed. I access the menu for exactly 4 reasons:
Toggle Setting Effect on or off depending on ambient light conditions
Format memory card
Toggle RAW quality
Toggle airplane mode and wirelessly transfer photos

When my Riii gets here, I plan to map them all to the new custom menu. I'm also hoping setting effect is mappable to a custom button (I'd use the video button which is finally mappable), and alternately use the 1,2,3 settings memory selections to record that change, as well as uncompressed RAW (it's still annoying that they don't offer lossless compression).

If it works the way I'm planning, I'd only go to the menus to format and initiate wireless transfer, both from the custom menu.

Look forward to hear from you on a7r III. Crossing my fingers on A7s III to have similar specs as 7r III.

New grip on A9 is much more friendly, especially with f1.4 primes and f2.8 GM lenses. The new battery is awesome. If you can get one extra, shooting all day is no longer an issue. I dont know what A9 II has to offer in near future, current A9 is more than what I can dream for  ;)

I’ll let you know how it goes. Didn’t pay for expedited shipping but hope to have it early December. Maybe I’ll add a grip to the order.

Neutral

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2017, 03:30:04 AM »
I dont know what A9 II has to offer in near future, current A9 is more than what I can dream for  ;)
It is very difficult to predict , bayer sensor technology almost reached theoretical/technological limit for image quality. Possibly  we could expect advances in sensor data processing , maybe global shutter as well.
There is still a lot of things on the way.
I would be interested to see following with the next a9, a9r, a9s.
1.  Increase in well capacity so that more photons could be accumilated  - for any brand, not only for Sony
This is easier with BSI technology.
2. Implementation of old Sony patent for electronically switched pixel color filters - with that no need for pixel shift to get full  sensor resolution, no moire, ability to shoot ful res. monochrome images at any selected light spectrum range. This also could slightly  increase sensitivity for red and blue channels.
3. Higher analog DR range  - possibly using dual pixel or combining dual shots . There is interesting piece of information regarding new HDR mode on recently announced new  Sony medium format sensors, somehow nobody noticed and mentioned that so far. Though no information how this is implemented. The only thing that they compress it into 14 bit possibly using kind of HLG. Not using yet 16bit ADC.  This what we will see soon on next deneration of medium format camaras. Hopefully we will see the same on Sony a9r.
4. Have 16 bit ADC if #3 is implemented. Posibly have option to switch between 14 and 16 bit modes.
5. Have losless RAW compression using latest compression technologies, e.g. based on wavelets transforms or methods used in h.265 for video.
6. Have HLG is standard option not only for video but also for still - seems that a7r3 already have that.
7. Have 10bit 4:2:2 internal video recording.
8. Have option for DNG output.
9. Internal timelapse.
10. Internal image focus stacking as on Phase One camera.
11. High ISO improvements, at least 0.5 stops , though seems that it could be difficult to acheive.
12. Night mode - low light sensitivity increase one or two stops using photons multiplication technologies as used in some science sensors, possibly never happen but it is nice to dream about that.
13. Super fast super high resolution GM prime - I would like to see 35mm F1.0 GM AF prime. This would be perfect for night street photography, maybe for astrography as well.
14. And last but not the least - further improvements in AF capabilities , especially fo "Lock on AF mode",  which requires icrease in processing power and some pieces  of AI technology implementation.


« Last Edit: November 25, 2017, 04:12:37 AM by Neutral »

Neutral

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2017, 04:04:14 AM »
Also I would like to see firmware upgrade from Canon for my 1DXm2 with some additional features to make it more competitive with my Sony a9.
Possible feature additions coul be:
1. Provide HDR mode using dual pixel technology or dual shots with different ISO settings . 3d parties did  that for 5Dm III long time back , why Canon refuses to do it directly for their customers?
2. Provide function for reducing image noise using multiexposure functionslity. Something that I described here many years back for 1DX , but done with a single button press insteead of doing some manual manipulations.
3. Internal lens AFMA calibration - to make getting full lens resolution as user friendly as on mirrorles cameras. Even using automated FoCal for that is kind of headache.
4. Improve video functionality - better codecs, 10bit 4:2:2 internal recording at least for HD and 4k 10bit 4:2:2 for external HDMI recorder.
Not too much.
To continue to be loyal to Canon  need to see that they provide what customers need and be highly competitive.
Now with Sony a9 I get much more from it for much less money than what I get  from  Canon 1DXm2.
Though there is no doubt that I still have much more confidence in using 1DXm2 and Canon L lens in harsh conditions than for any of the Sony camera.
So I still need my 1DXm2 ,  just want featurs update to be more happy with that.
So that regardless of which brand I use I can get maximum from any of them and do not need to use two cameras at the same time to complement missing functionality.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2017, 04:07:47 AM by Neutral »

3kramd5

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2017, 11:25:46 AM »
I think the holy grail might be global shutter without a negative impact on DR. Stacked sensor tech may eventually facilitate that advance.

Additionally, perhaps some sort of counting camera which drains when saturation is reached and starts over (mathematically working around physical well capacity) for practically limitless dynamic range.
Some Canon, some Nikon, some Sony, some Olympus

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2017, 11:25:46 AM »

bwud

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2017, 08:25:46 PM »
I don't get the 'grip has gotten deeper' statement.  It looks just like an A9 to me (see pic vs. A7R2), which seems to be more of a thicker body than a bigger/deeper grip.  Am I missing something?

Proximity to lens barrel can be a problem. I have actually gotten a finger stuck once. It was both hilarious and annoying.

That being said the A7R iii grip seems far more comfortable. And when I say grip, I mean grip. I don't have the camera yet. But if it's like the V-grip, it's way more comfortable. I basically have to squeeze the R2 like a raptor on its prey. The V-grip (yes, unweighted as of yet so it's not a true comparison) fills my hands better. It's night and day.

ahsanford

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2017, 11:25:05 PM »
Proximity to lens barrel can be a problem. I have actually gotten a finger stuck once. It was both hilarious and annoying.

That being said the A7R iii grip seems far more comfortable. And when I say grip, I mean grip. I don't have the camera yet. But if it's like the V-grip, it's way more comfortable. I basically have to squeeze the R2 like a raptor on its prey. The V-grip (yes, unweighted as of yet so it's not a true comparison) fills my hands better. It's night and day.

Thanks for posting!  Those are... A7R2 shots then?

Nope, I'm not referring to the vertical grip, I'm talking about your first picture in your post -- which describes how I'm holding things almost all the time (I rarely use my vertical grip).  In that pic, your hand is turned clockwise too much for me -- it's reminiscent of how I had to hold my heavier L lenses on my old T1i (which has grip not far off from the A7 bodies). I'm not saying you're holding it wrong, I'm saying that's how the camera is making you hold it.

When I got my 5D3, it was night and day different for the better.  I could fully open my hand, and the middle of my hand became a participant in the gripping process -- I wasn't just iron-claw holding it between the butt of my thumb and my fingertips.  So my comfort was much higher and I could stably hold heavier things longer with it.

As for lens mount to grip spacing, I think Sony values small much more than Canon, and they wanted to use as much common body componentry as possible between generations.  I just can't believe they thought they could step up to huge GM lenses with the same spacing as a super-tiny enthusiast camera.  But the A9 and 'III' gen have no excuse for this to still be so close, IMHO.

- A

P.S.  Pinky under the bottom is a (small) 5D3 problem as well, I have slightly small to average hand size I'd say but I like a wide spread of fingers and I've actually considered building a Sugru little pinky extension for it.

bwud

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2017, 11:43:43 PM »
^^ correct, I’m holding an A7R ii in the first few (with an L-bracket which adds a bit of depth even), while the v-grip is for A9 / A7R iii. My hope is that the grip is representative of the feel of A7R iii, but I haven’t taken delivery of the camera yet and have not had hands on an A9.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 11:48:32 PM by bwud »

Hflm

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2017, 02:16:03 AM »
IMHO, the withdrawal of support for PlayMemories in the latest Sony releases (A9, A7RIII etc) is a lousy decision. They've just lost another positive to counter the weaknesses (poor ergonomics, hopeless menu organization etc) of the system.
Seems like a list picked from internet by someone who never used that cameras - usual story.
Otherwise one would know that a7r2 and especially  a9 are  much more customizable cameras even  than 1dxm2.

My company owns 3 copies of A7S, 1 copy of A7SII, 1 copy of A7R and 1 copy of A9 with Sony FE 24-70 f/4 and multiple copies of FE 70-200 f/2.8 GM OSS.

I have used them all. I know what I am talking about.

The A9 is an improvement, but the ergonomics still s***s.
I use the A9 with grip at weddings and find it very comfortable to use for long stretches of time. I have large hands and don't have any problems. The grip extension is nice, too. Without grip it is too small for me personally. I like the 5div ergonomics best in that case. My wife, however, doesn't mind.

In the meanwhile there is no issue with the menu either, from my side. Lots of customisable buttons and a quick access menu via button press rarely make the need to open the menu at all. And having a personalised menu item now, too, makes every complaint about the menu moot, in my opinion.


bwud

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2017, 09:34:47 PM »
Some bad news, I can’t feel any difference between the grips of the a7r II and A7r III.

And the good news:

It’s more customizable than I expected. If there is a function you can’t map somewhere I haven’t found it and probably wouldn’t want to map it. The controls feel good, not gimmicky.

It’s responsive. It doesn’t turn on right quick, but once it’s on it goes.

The EVF is beautiful.

I initially intended to have AF-ON stay default and AEL be for EyeAF. However I discovered that you can map the center press of the joystick (what resets the AF point to center on canons), so I instead put the AF-ON function there (meaning I need not move my thumb after selecting an AF point), and put the EyeAF function on the AF-ON button as well as lens button.

That freed up AEL, which I have toggling between exposure preview and not, a function I had to tediously find in the A7R II menus. Combined with the custom menu, I can’t think of any reason I’d have to navigate the main menu with any regularity.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 09:39:33 PM by bwud »

Dylan777

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2017, 11:55:20 PM »
Some bad news, I can’t feel any difference between the grips of the a7r II and A7r III.

And the good news:

It’s more customizable than I expected. If there is a function you can’t map somewhere I haven’t found it and probably wouldn’t want to map it. The controls feel good, not gimmicky.

It’s responsive. It doesn’t turn on right quick, but once it’s on it goes.

The EVF is beautiful.

I initially intended to have AF-ON stay default and AEL be for EyeAF. However I discovered that you can map the center press of the joystick (what resets the AF point to center on canons), so I instead put the AF-ON function there (meaning I need not move my thumb after selecting an AF point), and put the EyeAF function on the AF-ON button as well as lens button.

That freed up AEL, which I have toggling between exposure preview and not, a function I had to tediously find in the A7R II menus. Combined with the custom menu, I can’t think of any reason I’d have to navigate the main menu with any regularity.

Congrats!!!  :)

Compared to mrk II, how is 6400ISO & 12800ISO? Thanks in advance.

A9 is the only body I have as FF. I'm kinda want 2nd FF body, too lazy swapping 2470 &70200 ;D , but want to see what a7s III has to offer. The a7r III looks very good.

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2017, 11:55:20 PM »

bwud

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2017, 12:00:07 AM »
Some bad news, I can’t feel any difference between the grips of the a7r II and A7r III.

And the good news:

It’s more customizable than I expected. If there is a function you can’t map somewhere I haven’t found it and probably wouldn’t want to map it. The controls feel good, not gimmicky.

It’s responsive. It doesn’t turn on right quick, but once it’s on it goes.

The EVF is beautiful.

I initially intended to have AF-ON stay default and AEL be for EyeAF. However I discovered that you can map the center press of the joystick (what resets the AF point to center on canons), so I instead put the AF-ON function there (meaning I need not move my thumb after selecting an AF point), and put the EyeAF function on the AF-ON button as well as lens button.

That freed up AEL, which I have toggling between exposure preview and not, a function I had to tediously find in the A7R II menus. Combined with the custom menu, I can’t think of any reason I’d have to navigate the main menu with any regularity.

Congrats!!!  :)

Compared to mrk II, how is 6400ISO & 12800ISO? Thanks in advance.

A9 is the only body I have as FF. I'm kinda want 2nd FF body, too lazy swapping 2470 &70200 ;D , but want to see what a7s III has to offer. The a7r III looks very good.

I haven’t done much yet beyond set it up and tweak the controls. I’ll shoot some stuff at those ISOs this weekend and shoot you the ARWs

jolyonralph

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2017, 04:44:31 AM »
I use both the A7RII and the 5DSR almost equally now.   Some comments:

I never have a problem adapting to the grip on either camera.

The menus on the Sony are different, not worse, not better, but different. If you've been using Canon all your life of course you'll hate it the first moment you use it. But if you use the camera for a short period of time everything makes sense.

The ergonomics for the buttons on the A7RII are better than those on the Canon mirrorless offerings (and I use the M5/M6 extensively too)

I generally don't use long lenses with the Sony, mostly it's the 35mm and 55mm sony-zeiss primes. But when I have (Canon 70-200 IS II and metabones adaptor) it didn't feel a problem. The center of gravity is below the lens, not the camera, so the grip size is really inconsequential as long as you're comfortable and can keep the camera steady, which is easy with the A7RII.

The A7RII isn't perfect, neither is the 5DSR. The great thing about having both is being able to use the right tool for the right job.


Having a chunkier body means it won't fit in my coat pocket with the 35mm f/2.8 Zeiss lens.
Jolyon Ralph

Cameras: 5DSR, A7RII, 5D III, EOS M6/M5/M3, Mavic Pro, DXO One.  Oh, and more lenses than I care to count.

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2017, 04:44:31 AM »