December 17, 2017, 03:01:43 PM

Author Topic: DPReview reviews the A7R3  (Read 5434 times)

ahsanford

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DPReview reviews the A7R3
« on: November 22, 2017, 03:48:02 PM »
Spoiler alert:  they love it.   ::)

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-a7r-mark-iii-review

I don't get the 'grip has gotten deeper' statement.  It looks just like an A9 to me (see pic vs. A7R2), which seems to be more of a thicker body than a bigger/deeper grip.  Am I missing something?

I still contend the grip size/depth + grip proximity to the mount simply do not play with big glass, and a vertical grip does nothing to solve that.  In that light, I see the A7R3 grip design remaining the #1 problem with the brand -- even above that of the disappointments of the controls / interface / expensive FBW lenses, etc.

- A

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DPReview reviews the A7R3
« on: November 22, 2017, 03:48:02 PM »

ahsanford

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2017, 04:07:04 PM »
But meanwhile, from the very same publication, apparently eating stars is still an issue:

https://www.dpreview.com/news/3195011528/analysis-the-sony-a7r-iii-is-still-a-star-eater

I'm not an astro person, but FYI if you are.

- A

bwud

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2017, 11:43:41 AM »
But meanwhile, from the very same publication, apparently eating stars is still an issue:

https://www.dpreview.com/news/3195011528/analysis-the-sony-a7r-iii-is-still-a-star-eater

I'm not an astro person, but FYI if you are.

- A

 
I am not either, but I am somewhat befuddled that they don’t make the spatial filtering a menu option. I suspect leadership is so sensitive to noise that they don’t want any possibility of people disabling it and then publishing “look how noisy the A7Rii and A7Riii are.”

Note that while the filtering still occurs, by their real world test it’s less impactful than with A7Rii. Perhaps Sony tweaked its aggressiveness due to better overall noise performance.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2017, 12:38:50 PM by bwud »

Neutral

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2017, 01:33:07 PM »
Spoiler alert:  they love it.   ::)

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-a7r-mark-iii-review

I don't get the 'grip has gotten deeper' statement.  It looks just like an A9 to me (see pic vs. A7R2), which seems to be more of a thicker body than a bigger/deeper grip.  Am I missing something?

I still contend the grip size/depth + grip proximity to the mount simply do not play with big glass, and a vertical grip does nothing to solve that.  In that light, I see the A7R3 grip design remaining the #1 problem with the brand -- even above that of the disappointments of the controls / interface / expensive FBW lenses, etc.

- A

Marked red is very exaggerated statement.
Maybe this is problem #1 for you,  but not for a lot of others.
I do not have any issues  or inconveniences with the grip on my A9 using big lenses - not with Canon 70-200 or Canon 100-400  with Metabones adaptor  and not now with native 100-400 GM lens .
The same will be for a7rIII which I also planning for my a7r2 replacement.
All the advantages for a9 and a7r3 overweight any possible inconveniences.
 And as  I mentioned earlier the only advantage of my 1DXm2 over Sony a9 is AF-C  for single AF point where 1DXm2 is much better and much more reliable  than A9.  And also that it is solid heavy brick which could be easily used for self defense if required.  For the rest a9 is superior to 1DXm2.  Also video quality from a9 is amazing and especially when fast AF tracking combined with face recognition. Works extremely well for shooting video of dances especially in very low light at night. So now I am using 1DXm2 only in cases where I need reliable tracking using single AF point for the rest a9 works better for me.
Only people who use both brands  (like me) could tell real experience with them.
Comparing specs and pictures do not replace real experience ))
For me I am neutral to any brand - I just use what is more convenient now  for me and give better results.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2017, 01:36:39 PM by Neutral »

ahsanford

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2017, 01:57:11 PM »
In that light, I see the A7R3 grip design remaining the #1 problem with the brand -- even above that of the disappointments of the controls / interface / expensive FBW lenses, etc.

- A

Marked red is very exaggerated statement.
Maybe this is problem #1 for you,  but not for a lot of others.

Not exaggerated, just how I feel.  I walked into B&H in Manhattan and played around with an A7R2 with some stout f/2.8 zoom on it.  It felt like wielding my old 24-70 f/2.8L I on my Canon T1i -- doable but not comfortable or sustainable for long periods.  Yes, you don't solely hold your kit with your right hand, but when you do it should be more comfortable and stable.

And the proximity of that smaller grip to the mount is problematic for the GM lenses, which dives out diametrically and leaves little real estate for fingers.  (From TDP, below)

But I recognize others are fine with the A7/A9 grips.  I'd honestly be fine with it if a 35 f/2 or (tiny double gauss) fast 50 was permanently affixed to it.  But people are going to put big f/1.4 primes and f/2.8 zooms on it, and the grip should reflect that need.

So, yeah.  I stand by the grip size / proximity to the mount as that platform's #1 drawback.

- A


neuroanatomist

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2017, 04:54:47 PM »
Spoiler alert:  they love it.   ::)

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sony-a7r-mark-iii-review

I don't get the 'grip has gotten deeper' statement.  It looks just like an A9 to me (see pic vs. A7R2), which seems to be more of a thicker body than a bigger/deeper grip.  Am I missing something?

I still contend the grip size/depth + grip proximity to the mount simply do not play with big glass, and a vertical grip does nothing to solve that.  In that light, I see the A7R3 grip design remaining the #1 problem with the brand -- even above that of the disappointments of the controls / interface / expensive FBW lenses, etc.

- A

Marked red is very exaggerated statement.
Maybe this is problem #1 for you,  but not for a lot of others.

Marked in blue very clearly indicated that's his personal perception, regardless of others.
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ahsanford

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2017, 05:08:09 PM »
And I still don't get why the grip isn't chunkier for other reasons than comfort with big glass -- there's little reason for it not to be bigger except for the tiny lens travel crowd. 

See the attached.  Unless folks are packing a mirrorless rig with no lens attached, adding a bigger might mean a larger volume of camera, but it will still take up the same amount of space in your bag with a lens attached, and that chunkier grip will net you a larger battery and unlock the top of the grip for an LCD.

- A

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2017, 05:08:09 PM »

Woody

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2017, 06:00:11 PM »
IMHO, the withdrawal of support for PlayMemories in the latest Sony releases (A9, A7RIII etc) is a lousy decision. They've just lost another positive to counter the weaknesses (poor ergonomics, hopeless menu organization etc) of the system.

9VIII

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2017, 08:08:12 PM »
In that light, I see the A7R3 grip design remaining the #1 problem with the brand -- even above that of the disappointments of the controls / interface / expensive FBW lenses, etc.

- A

Marked red is very exaggerated statement.
Maybe this is problem #1 for you,  but not for a lot of others.

Not exaggerated, just how I feel.  I walked into B&H in Manhattan and played around with an A7R2 with some stout f/2.8 zoom on it.  It felt like wielding my old 24-70 f/2.8L I on my Canon T1i -- doable but not comfortable or sustainable for long periods.  Yes, you don't solely hold your kit with your right hand, but when you do it should be more comfortable and stable.

And the proximity of that smaller grip to the mount is problematic for the GM lenses, which dives out diametrically and leaves little real estate for fingers.  (From TDP, below)

But I recognize others are fine with the A7/A9 grips.  I'd honestly be fine with it if a 35 f/2 or (tiny double gauss) fast 50 was permanently affixed to it.  But people are going to put big f/1.4 primes and f/2.8 zooms on it, and the grip should reflect that need.

So, yeah.  I stand by the grip size / proximity to the mount as that platform's #1 drawback.

- A

Seriously, Ahsanford, you should look into changing your grip style. At least sometimes.
If you have pain from using one grip over many years it would probably do you good to change it up.

If I wanted to I could shoot BIF all day using my 400f5.6+1100D firing it with a remote release in my right pocket.
My arm would be tired, but I wouldn't have joint pain.
Granted, I also have a set of big dumbbells sitting beside my chair, but it sounds like I'm using an entirely different muscle set to support my camera, using much larger joints (indicating potential for more longevity).

I definitely agree that the grip size is still virtually irrelevant though. I mean, ideally my next Canon body wouldn't have a grip, I would take a tubular body in a heartbeat (the battery is probably the biggest reason for cameras still having a grip), but as long as the camera has a grip at all the amount that it sticks out forward is far less than the length of almost any lens you would use.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2017, 08:10:24 PM by 9VIII »

bwud

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2017, 08:44:52 PM »
And I still don't get why the grip isn't chunkier for other reasons than comfort with big glass -- there's little reason for it not to be bigger except for the tiny lens travel crowd. 

Business strategy.

Sony leadership cites the ability to be small not as a, but as the number one advantage to the system. So they go all in on small even if to some users, myself included, comfort is negatively impacted. The thickness of the grip I don't find irksome, but I wish it were another 1/2" taller.


Neutral

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2017, 05:32:32 AM »
IMHO, the withdrawal of support for PlayMemories in the latest Sony releases (A9, A7RIII etc) is a lousy decision. They've just lost another positive to counter the weaknesses (poor ergonomics, hopeless menu organization etc) of the system.
Seems like a list picked from internet by someone who never used that cameras - usual story.
Otherwise one would know that a7r2 and especially  a9 are  much more customizable cameras even  than 1dxm2.
If you spent 30 mins to customize camera for your needs you do not ned to go to menu system in 99.9% of you time. And a9 menu is very good - same level of convinience as on 1DXm2.
I've been using both systems for years already and for me such statements are  just full nonsence.
 Biggest inconvinience and irritation for me is completely different area - no sensor protection from dust during lens replacement. Sensor immidiately gets dust like vaccume cleaner especially if you need to replace lense outdoor. This is generic problem for any mirrorless camera.  DSLR is much better in this respect as sensor is behind mirror when you changing lens.
 Lense replacemet mode would be great  - have protection curtain closing sensor while this mode is activated for lense replacement. And in addition self cleaning method for this protection curtain.
But this requires additional space in camera and some additional mechanical parts that would increase size and cost of the camera.

« Last Edit: November 24, 2017, 05:36:10 AM by Neutral »

bwud

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2017, 11:34:40 AM »

If you spent 30 mins to customize camera for your needs you do not ned to go to menu system in 99.9% of you time.

Agreed. I access the menu for exactly 4 reasons:
Toggle Setting Effect on or off depending on ambient light conditions
Format memory card
Toggle RAW quality
Toggle airplane mode and wirelessly transfer photos

When my Riii gets here, I plan to map them all to the new custom menu. I'm also hoping setting effect is mappable to a custom button (I'd use the video button which is finally mappable), and alternately use the 1,2,3 settings memory selections to record that change, as well as uncompressed RAW (it's still annoying that they don't offer lossless compression).

If it works the way I'm planning, I'd only go to the menus to format and initiate wireless transfer, both from the custom menu.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2017, 11:37:43 AM by bwud »

neuroanatomist

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2017, 04:24:35 PM »
IMHO, the withdrawal of support for PlayMemories in the latest Sony releases (A9, A7RIII etc) is a lousy decision. They've just lost another positive to counter the weaknesses (poor ergonomics, hopeless menu organization etc) of the system.
Seems like a list picked from internet by someone who never used that cameras - usual story.
Otherwise one would know that a7r2 and especially  a9 are  much more customizable cameras even  than 1dxm2.

I have tried the a7R and the a7RII, and the menus are poorly organized.  I'm sure if I adopted the system, I could get used to it.

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2017, 04:24:35 PM »

privatebydesign

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2017, 06:58:46 PM »
IMHO, the withdrawal of support for PlayMemories in the latest Sony releases (A9, A7RIII etc) is a lousy decision. They've just lost another positive to counter the weaknesses (poor ergonomics, hopeless menu organization etc) of the system.
Seems like a list picked from internet by someone who never used that cameras - usual story.
Otherwise one would know that a7r2 and especially  a9 are  much more customizable cameras even  than 1dxm2.

I have tried the a7R and the a7RII, and the menus are poorly organized.  I'm sure if I adopted the system, I could get used to it.



I was watching a video review on the D850 earlier, good god is that a convoluted drill down menu, I couldn't believe how complex and unintuitive it was.
Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

bwud

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2017, 08:03:40 PM »
IMHO, the withdrawal of support for PlayMemories in the latest Sony releases (A9, A7RIII etc) is a lousy decision. They've just lost another positive to counter the weaknesses (poor ergonomics, hopeless menu organization etc) of the system.
Seems like a list picked from internet by someone who never used that cameras - usual story.
Otherwise one would know that a7r2 and especially  a9 are  much more customizable cameras even  than 1dxm2.

I have tried the a7R and the a7RII, and the menus are poorly organized.  I'm sure if I adopted the system, I could get used to it.



I was watching a video review on the D850 earlier, good god is that a convoluted drill down menu, I couldn't believe how complex and unintuitive it was.

I can navigate the A7Rii menu now, but have never been able to comprehend Nikon’s menus. Regardless, when considering menu functions and overall intuitiveness, I prefer a camera whose menu I have to navigate infrequently more than one whose menu is easily navigable. With my 5Diii, I have previously set up AF settings and assigned them to C modes on the dial so rarely do anything besides format. Similar menu access with my A7Rii, with the additional functions above as well (hopefully made irrelevant with A7Riii).
« Last Edit: November 24, 2017, 08:09:53 PM by bwud »

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Re: DPReview reviews the A7R3
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2017, 08:03:40 PM »