December 18, 2017, 12:08:51 PM

Author Topic: EOS 7D Mark III Coming in March 2018 [CR1]  (Read 18308 times)

bhf3737

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Re: EOS 7D Mark III Coming in March 2018 [CR1]
« Reply #45 on: November 25, 2017, 02:01:50 AM »
That first time Canon DSLR sensor tech may just be IBIS. Wouldn’t that be good!

-pw

It isn't going to happen. For better or worse Canon went the lens stabilization route, and they have said many times they see IS per lens a better solution than IBIS.

A simple and interesting comparison of effectiveness of in lens stabilization compared to IBIS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgPp2D0qNWs
Side-by-side comparison at 6:12. The conclusion was that the lens IS wins, as expected.

IBIS and lens IS are not mutually exclusive. You can have both.

That’s right. Look at the Panasonic GH5 and upcoming G9. Both enable dual stabilisation when used with IS glass.

-pw

Agree, They are not supposed to be mutually exclusive. But in practice having both IBIS and in-lens stabilization in a system may bring problems like sway that has been reported repeatedly as an issue with the GH5 cameras, for example in:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKh_iTSqgng
from 10:45.
This is a common problem in any system that has multiple independent feedback control mechanisms operating on a common set of controlled variables.

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Re: EOS 7D Mark III Coming in March 2018 [CR1]
« Reply #45 on: November 25, 2017, 02:01:50 AM »

AlanF

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Re: EOS 7D Mark III Coming in March 2018 [CR1]
« Reply #46 on: November 25, 2017, 03:53:38 AM »
That youtube on the Panasonic makes one really appreciate the Canon menus system! What a mess. The facts remain, however, that Olympus use in-lens IS for its latest premier 300mm f/4 telephoto lens as does Panasonic  for its Pana-Leica 100-400mm f/6.3 showing that they believe their IBIS is inferior for telephoto lenses. As bonuses, both do combine IBIS and in-lens IS for those lenses and suitable bodies.
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jedy

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Re: EOS 7D Mark III Coming in March 2018 [CR1]
« Reply #47 on: November 25, 2017, 08:59:23 AM »
Will the 7D III have a clean HDMI output?? The main problem with Canon where video is concerned, no focus peaking, zebras etc. The opportunity to connect this to an Atomos external monitor/recorder would be truly great - especially as the aps-c sensor closely resembles the super 35 sensors of digital cine cameras. I expect, as usual, no clean output meaning, for video, people can forget about obtaining accurate exposure and access to decent focusing aids. No wonder a lot of videographers are ditching Canon for Sony and Panasonic.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2017, 09:27:24 AM by jedy »
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jedy

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Re: EOS 7D Mark III Coming in March 2018 [CR1]
« Reply #48 on: November 25, 2017, 09:23:10 AM »
At this point Canon simply can't do anything to make photogs stop switching to Sony. Can it?

Given the actual sales figures we end up seeing I'm sure Canon and it's share holders will be happy to continue the current trajectory of Sony, Nikon and Canon sales in both DSLR's and MILC's. You do know Canon sell more DSLR's and MILC's than Nikon and Sony combined?

That's what RIM said ... remember them, they practically invented the smartphone. Smug and resting on their laurels, they now are mostly dead and utterly irrelevant.

That's what everybody says when the facts are presented. Yet each year/month/week/new release/rumor/thread we are told Canon are dead, each year they post better figures when compared to their competition. I'm not saying they know everything, I am saying they seem to know their market much better than us and the never ending cries of 'they are doomed' sound more like the boy who cried wolf given the year on year in year facts.

That's exactly what everyone said about RIM for almost 10 years!

RIM/Blackberry sold phones competitively for ten odd years, 2002 to 2012 if you are generous, Canon have been making cameras competitively for 80 years. As I said, I don't know what they know, but I do know they know more than me and I expect you.

At this point Canon simply can't do anything to make photogs stop switching to Sony. Can it?

Given the actual sales figures we end up seeing I'm sure Canon and it's share holders will be happy to continue the current trajectory of Sony, Nikon and Canon sales in both DSLR's and MILC's. You do know Canon sell more DSLR's and MILC's than Nikon and Sony combined?

That's what RIM said ... remember them, they practically invented the smartphone. Smug and resting on their laurels, they now are mostly dead and utterly irrelevant.

That's what everybody says when the facts are presented. Yet each year/month/week/new release/rumor/thread we are told Canon are dead, each year they post better figures when compared to their competition. I'm not saying they know everything, I am saying they seem to know their market much better than us and the never ending cries of 'they are doomed' sound more like the boy who cried wolf given the year on year in year facts.

That's exactly what everyone said about RIM for almost 10 years!

PS ... in every industry, the future belongs to the bold and aggressive, and right now that looks like Sony.

That is simply not true, Sony have been bold and aggressive in many fields and retreated and stopped mid stride. Sony have dominated areas of tech in which they are now either gone or also rans. Bold and aggressive has led to failure on many many occasions. Sony are losing market share to Canon on MILC sales, how does that square with your comments?

We'll see. Canon may get the lead out on MILC, but I'm losing patience.
The Sony A7r III is making waves and it's at the top of my list, begging me to switch brands.
https://www.dpreview.com/news/7619939520/time-calls-sony-a7r-iii-one-of-the-best-mirrorless-cameras-ever-made
In recent years I've become fed up of autofocus inaccuracies (having to test each lens) and bored with the press-one-button-to-focus approach of autofocus. When I can afford it I'm moving to Sony as there are some great third party E mount manual lenses for the A7. Don't get me wrong, autofocus is an essential tool for jobbing photographers but the lack of decent manual focusing aids in DSLR's has prompted this need for change.
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Don Haines

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Re: EOS 7D Mark III Coming in March 2018 [CR1]
« Reply #49 on: November 25, 2017, 09:43:32 AM »
That youtube on the Panasonic makes one really appreciate the Canon menus system! What a mess. The facts remain, however, that Olympus use in-lens IS for its latest premier 300mm f/4 telephoto lens as does Panasonic  for its Pana-Leica 100-400mm f/6.3 showing that they believe their IBIS is inferior for telephoto lenses. As bonuses, both do combine IBIS and in-lens IS for those lenses and suitable bodies.
I was led to believe that IBIS was best for short focal lengths and that in lens stabilization worked best for longer focal lengths....
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IglooEater

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Re: EOS 7D Mark III Coming in March 2018 [CR1]
« Reply #50 on: November 25, 2017, 09:52:22 AM »
That first time Canon DSLR sensor tech may just be IBIS. Wouldn’t that be good!

-pw

It isn't going to happen. For better or worse Canon went the lens stabilization route, and they have said many times they see IS per lens a better solution than IBIS.

A simple and interesting comparison of effectiveness of in lens stabilization compared to IBIS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgPp2D0qNWs
Side-by-side comparison at 6:12. The conclusion was that the lens IS wins, as expected.

Of course lens IS will win all day, every day, and twice on Sunday.  That’s to be expected. However there are quite a few lenses that simply do not exist with IS, especially fast primes.  One can stick the old 50 1.0 in front of an IBIS, and get a half decently stabilized combination that simply doesn’t exist and probably never will exist in a lens IS.

unfocused

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Re: EOS 7D Mark III Coming in March 2018 [CR1]
« Reply #51 on: November 25, 2017, 10:32:19 AM »
It isn't going to happen...

Absolutely correct. And, even it it were going to happen someday on a Canon camera, it isn't going to be on the 7DIII.

Much more likely for this supposed “first time sensor technology in a Canon DSLR” would be (pick one):

  • An improved version of the pixel-shift feature of the 5DIV;
  • In-camera AFMA;
  • Some type of incremental improvement in sensor tech that improves noise at high ISOs or improves dynamic range.
  • Some other "new" innovation that is useful, but not likely to be groundbreaking

The most interesting thing about the 7DIII will not be some whiz-bang technology, but the incremental improvements it offers in sensor performance, autofocus, frames per second, etc.

For the first two generations of the 7D series Canon slotted its features above the 5D but below the 1D. (Features--not sensor). In fact, with the 7DII, they pretty much aligned it with the 1Dx. In terms of features, there simply isn't that much space between the 1D and 7D, so it will be interesting to see if they narrow the gap even further or even leapfrog the 1DXII in something like autofocus.

It will also be interesting to learn if the rumored 500mm or 600mm zoom is released at the same time -- highly likely in my opinion.

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Re: EOS 7D Mark III Coming in March 2018 [CR1]
« Reply #51 on: November 25, 2017, 10:32:19 AM »

daaningrid

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Re: EOS 7D Mark III Coming in March 2018 [CR1]
« Reply #52 on: November 25, 2017, 11:17:21 AM »
What about a Back side iluminated sensor ??? canon doesn't have that yet right? and high iso performance is very important especially for a crop sports camera...

High iso performance also has been a small issue with the 7d and 7d markII,

JoSto

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Re: EOS 7D Mark III Coming in March 2018 [CR1]
« Reply #53 on: November 25, 2017, 11:49:24 AM »
One might say I am biased because I own the 7dmk2.

I am sure the new camera is great for people moving up to better, more high end bodies but I will not upgrade this time. There ist no current Canon crop sensor that is better then the one from the 7dmk2 (DR improvements of 80D just at ISO400 or below).

What sould/could be improved over the 7dmk2 for stills only?
-more Pixles (24?)
-more AF Points?
-more FPS?

All things where the 7d is already very good. So a focus on Video feautures would make sense for Canon.
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Cthulhu

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Re: EOS 7D Mark III Coming in March 2018 [CR1]
« Reply #54 on: November 25, 2017, 11:56:55 AM »
We’ve had two people write in telling us that the EOS 7D Mark III is currently scheduled to be announced in March of 2018.</p>

<p>One of the sources also mentioned “first time sensor technology in a Canon DSLR”. We’re not sure what that is, but it sounds like some marketing speak for the moment.</p>

That first time Canon DSLR sensor tech may just be IBIS. Wouldn’t that be good!

-pw

It isn't going to happen. For better or worse Canon went the lens stabilization route, and they have said many times they see IS per lens a better solution than IBIS.

Exactly.

They are not mutually exclusive and ibis is a much better solution for video.

unfocused

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Re: EOS 7D Mark III Coming in March 2018 [CR1]
« Reply #55 on: November 25, 2017, 12:05:06 PM »
We’ve had two people write in telling us that the EOS 7D Mark III is currently scheduled to be announced in March of 2018.</p>

<p>One of the sources also mentioned “first time sensor technology in a Canon DSLR”. We’re not sure what that is, but it sounds like some marketing speak for the moment.</p>

That first time Canon DSLR sensor tech may just be IBIS. Wouldn’t that be good!

-pw

It isn't going to happen. For better or worse Canon went the lens stabilization route, and they have said many times they see IS per lens a better solution than IBIS.

Exactly.

They are not mutually exclusive and ibis is a much better solution for video.

Irrelevant. IBIS may be a great feature for video. But Canon isn't going to launch it in the 7DIII. Wrong model. The 7 series is primarily aimed at sports, birds in flight and other action stills photography. Also, the 7DIII must be bomb-proof. IBIS adds just one more thing that can go wrong with a camera meant to be abused.

bhf3737

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Re: EOS 7D Mark III Coming in March 2018 [CR1]
« Reply #56 on: November 25, 2017, 12:27:57 PM »
We’ve had two people write in telling us that the EOS 7D Mark III is currently scheduled to be announced in March of 2018.</p>

<p>One of the sources also mentioned “first time sensor technology in a Canon DSLR”. We’re not sure what that is, but it sounds like some marketing speak for the moment.</p>

That first time Canon DSLR sensor tech may just be IBIS. Wouldn’t that be good!

-pw

It isn't going to happen. For better or worse Canon went the lens stabilization route, and they have said many times they see IS per lens a better solution than IBIS.

Exactly.

They are not mutually exclusive and ibis is a much better solution for video.

IBIS and in-lens stabilization are great technologies with their own rewards and disadvantages:
1. In-lens stabilization is more effective when using long lenses.
2. In-lens stabilization is more effective in low light because the received image on the sensor is already stabilized and metering/AF can be more accurate.
3. IBIS is more effective when using wide lenses but may cause more vignetting because of sensor movement unless cropped a little bit.

If your use-case is adapting and using wide bright lenses in low-light and take advantage of IBIS you may want to think twice.

Also, combining IBIS and in-lens stabilization may not always be rewarding and may cause sway or other unwanted image movements.

Don Haines

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Re: EOS 7D Mark III Coming in March 2018 [CR1]
« Reply #57 on: November 25, 2017, 12:37:30 PM »

Irrelevant. IBIS may be a great feature for video. But Canon isn't going to launch it in the 7DIII. Wrong model. The 7 series is primarily aimed at sports, birds in flight and other action stills photography. Also, the 7DIII must be bomb-proof. IBIS adds just one more thing that can go wrong with a camera meant to be abused.

Doesn’t the 6D2 use pixel shifting to stabilize its 2K video? That’s sort of IBIS..... :)

But that is not IBIS that moves the sensor.... that is a whole other level of complexity and so far, Canon has shown no indication to go down that road. To make it even more unlikely, the 1DX and 7D series are the “make it rock solid” part of the Canon lineup, and introducing IBIS there is just about the most unlikely place in the entire Canon lineup.  Quite frankly, I would expect it to be introduced in their video camera lineup first....
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Re: EOS 7D Mark III Coming in March 2018 [CR1]
« Reply #57 on: November 25, 2017, 12:37:30 PM »

rrcphoto

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Re: EOS 7D Mark III Coming in March 2018 [CR1]
« Reply #58 on: November 25, 2017, 12:41:52 PM »
canon has zero IBIS patents.  None.  Notta. Zip.  After years of searching patent and patent applications in both USA and Japan, I have not seen one patent that even remotely discusses IBIS.  Believe me, I've looked because it would be a great patent to find if they did.

the IBIS train is with sony, olympus and panasonic - why are you here, those that continually whine for it.  It's not happening.

It would also be completely retarded for an OVF to have IBIS.

Don Haines

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Re: EOS 7D Mark III Coming in March 2018 [CR1]
« Reply #59 on: November 25, 2017, 01:32:31 PM »

It would also be completely retarded for an OVF to have IBIS.

Perhaps Canon could also invent a stabilized OVF :)

.....or they could stay with what works.....
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Re: EOS 7D Mark III Coming in March 2018 [CR1]
« Reply #59 on: November 25, 2017, 01:32:31 PM »