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Author Topic: Pano question for 24TSE  (Read 3338 times)

MARKOE PHOTOE

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Pano question for 24TSE
« on: May 29, 2012, 01:46:09 PM »
I'm using a Really Right Stuff pano head assembly with the BH55 head and 5D3 and Canon 24TSE lens. 

Has anyone used a similar combination in the field by shifting the lens in both directions and then rotating the camera on the pano head to create a wider field of view?
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Pano question for 24TSE
« on: May 29, 2012, 01:46:09 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Pano question for 24TSE
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2012, 01:50:55 PM »
You'll still get parallax, if that's your question.  The way to avoid that is equal and opposite shifting of the lens and camera - in effect, it means moving the camera not the lens.  There are actually lens collar mounts for the TS-E lenses that facilitate that, such as this one
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Re: Pano question for 24TSE
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2012, 03:29:53 PM »
You can always do it manually, mounting the camera on a rail. Not as accurate as neuro's suggestion obviously, but good enough for a lot of situations.

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Re: Pano question for 24TSE
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2012, 04:10:42 PM »
I was thinking of the hartblei collar alot (Let me add that I learned its existence through this site a few months ago :)  )
but I think it is very expensive considering that it costs as a top panoramic head.

So I would like opinions. I guess that as always the answer to the question if it is worth the cost is depends on what you use it for!

But I was wondering if it would be possible to not only produce a composite image by shifting  the lens but also
by rotating the collar. Which raises the question: Have the collar creators taken into account the nodal point?

Since it supports 2 TS-E lenses I somehow doubt it. But I am not an expert on that hence this question.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2012, 05:35:44 PM by tron »

paul13walnut5

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Re: Pano question for 24TSE
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2012, 06:13:52 PM »
When I had my 24 TS-E I used it for a couple of parralax free panoramas, but only on the basis of a static body and shots the the shifted and rotated lens.

I had a couple of issues:

As you shift you gradually lose sharpness and increase vignetting, which is easy to correct on a single image from one lens, but is very difficult to counteract on a composite image with lots of sweet spots and lots of zones of fall-off.

Using filters became impossible for the same reason.

The process was pretty slow, so there was often cloud, people, tide movement etc.

I enjoyed far more success using a 28mm lens (on APS-C format - so a 42mm for FF) and a basic pano markedhead.

I have a video tripod with a levelling bowl, which makes also makes these images work a lot better.

I wouldn't use a TS-E lens if you have any thought at all about moving the camera.  The TS-E lenses were designed specifically so you wouldn't have to move the camera (i.e. keeping the image plane level)

I would opt for a Voigtlander 40mm f2.  Or a zoom that you trust at approx 42mm.

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Re: Pano question for 24TSE
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2012, 06:55:25 PM »
Shifting lenses takes a bit of getting your head around, until you have the realisation that I had a while ago.

Think of a large-format or medium-format lens, projecting an image circle 8cm diameter or wider.
Now get your camera sensor of 15x24 or 24x36 inside that 8cm-circle, it's tiny (comparatively).
When you shift, you want to shift the sensor within that circle, you want the image circle to be exactly the same every time, if you shift the lens then the image in the projected-circle is changing.
Basically, a TS-E (or PC- or PA- lens, depending what brand you're looking at) is a medium format lens with an image circle of 8cm or so, and you should be shifting the sensor within that 8cm.

So that's what the Hartblei ring does, it holds the lens still so the image-circle is always the same, and lets you easily shift the sensor within that projection.
The only other ways around it are to find a different off-brand tripod-ring that can hold your TS-E by the front part (basically that's what the hartblei does), or to use a nodal rail, shift 12mm one way take a photo, rotate the lens so that it's shifting 12mm the other way and slide the camera 24mm (so that the lens is effectively in the same spot as before), shift the lens back to the centre and slide the camera 12mm along the rail so that the lens is where it was before. It's not the best and sometimes you can be 1mm out or so, but unless your objects are *really* close you won't notice.
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Re: Pano question for 24TSE
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2012, 12:45:07 AM »
When I had my 24 TS-E I used it for a couple of parralax free panoramas, but only on the basis of a static body and shots the the shifted and rotated lens.

I had a couple of issues:

As you shift you gradually lose sharpness and increase vignetting, which is easy to correct on a single image from one lens, but is very difficult to counteract on a composite image with lots of sweet spots and lots of zones of fall-off.

Using filters became impossible for the same reason.

The process was pretty slow, so there was often cloud, people, tide movement etc.

I enjoyed far more success using a 28mm lens (on APS-C format - so a 42mm for FF) and a basic pano markedhead.

I have a video tripod with a levelling bowl, which makes also makes these images work a lot better.

I wouldn't use a TS-E lens if you have any thought at all about moving the camera.  The TS-E lenses were designed specifically so you wouldn't have to move the camera (i.e. keeping the image plane level)

I would opt for a Voigtlander 40mm f2.  Or a zoom that you trust at approx 42mm.

Thanks Paul for sharing your experiences on this topic.  I've just recently been consumed by panoramic images and their possibilities for large prints.  I've used my 50L for some pano's to prevent distortion with satisfactory results. The 24TSE is extremely sharp corner/corner without the introduction of shift, so rotating this lens on the nodal point has worked well.  I'm renting a Zeiss 35 f1.4  tomorrow to check that out for pano's. 
The Voigtlander lenses are what I've always known as Leica's biggest competitor.  Best value for a small, extremely well-built lens. Used these with M43 bodies but never have used them on DSLR.
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Re: Pano question for 24TSE
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2012, 12:45:07 AM »

NWPhil

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Re: Pano question for 24TSE
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2012, 11:02:18 AM »
You can always do it manually, mounting the camera on a rail. Not as accurate as neuro's suggestion obviously, but good enough for a lot of situations.

Indeed - I still have to try this one, but did read about it on the web.
The setup consisted of an X and Y rails, along with a rotating head. Then one have to locate the lens nodal point, and attach a string aroung with a small weigth in the leftover string - it should almost reach the ground.
Once established the center point of the whole panno, the guy was using the corresponding ground point to position the camera and lens, while keeping that string vertical with the ground reference point.
I am not describing the whole setup, but just giving an idea of from the pictures and notes - the webpage did a way better job ::)
So, it's possible to do it without spending over 600 bucks....butyou have to work a bit more
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JEAraman

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Re: Pano question for 24TSE
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2012, 02:42:15 PM »
You'll still get parallax, if that's your question.  The way to avoid that is equal and opposite shifting of the lens and camera - in effect, it means moving the camera not the lens.  There are actually lens collar mounts for the TS-E lenses that facilitate that, such as this one.

Anyone find a cheaper alternative? I mean it's a piece of metal shaped like an overgrown U ...... 500 Euros... what the hell were they thinking?

paul13walnut5

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Re: Pano question for 24TSE
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2012, 05:24:50 PM »
The TSE- lenses are pretty robustly constructed.  You thought of modifying a superclamp with softer pads?

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Re: Pano question for 24TSE
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2012, 05:59:30 PM »
The TSE- lenses are pretty robustly constructed.  You thought of modifying a superclamp with softer pads?

good idea... will give it a try sometime....

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Re: Pano question for 24TSE
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2012, 05:59:30 PM »