December 10, 2017, 07:44:08 PM

Author Topic: Phase One Releases Capture One 11  (Read 3503 times)

GammyKnee

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Re: Phase One Releases Capture One 11
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2017, 07:00:55 AM »
Downloaded the CP1 v11 trial today and had a quick look at it. It's clear I am going to need to learn a bit about it before I can give it any sort of real test. Will see if I can find time to do that over the next weeks.

I recall reading an article a year or two ago which claimed you could get pretty much identical results from CP1 and LR, it's just that the two programs take a different approach to getting there.  The claim was LR is consistent with how it approaches each photo and aims to give a similar starting point for subsequent editing, while CP1 attempts to guess what would work for each photo so sometimes it gets you closer to your end point (or even to your end point) straight away, although sometimes it's not at all what you are looking for.  I have never tried to investigate further though.

I'm not a fan off instructional videos - I much prefer well written text articles - but the C1 tutorial vids are the fastest way to get up to speed:

https://www.phaseone.com/en/Products/Software/Capture-One-Pro/Tutorials.aspx

Regarding LR vs. C1, my take is that with the default setup C1 goes for more initial punch (more aggressive tone curve, more sharpening, more NR, more saturated color, more everything really) but you can tame that if it's not to your taste. Despite that I find that C1 produces a more "refined" result than I could usually get in LR without a lot of painstaking work; LR was convenient but somewhat crude (at least with me behind the controls!) and I was always aware that I could do better by dumping an intermediate result to TIFF and going to work with 3rd party filters in PS. C1's tools seem to deliver more finesse with less effort and retouching skill.

I experienced the same thing with Alien Skin Exposure 3 (vs LR) when I tried it, but unfortunately that software is still lacking some pretty essential stuff (CA & geometry correction, limited color controls especially compared to C1).
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 07:05:27 AM by GammyKnee »
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Re: Phase One Releases Capture One 11
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2017, 07:00:55 AM »

GammyKnee

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Re: Phase One Releases Capture One 11
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2017, 07:04:27 AM »
Do files coming out of Capture One look better than photoshop? Been struggling to get a reply....

I would expect that in the right hands PS will always beat C1, LR etc.
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IglooEater

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Re: Phase One Releases Capture One 11
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2017, 10:08:56 AM »
Do files coming out of Capture One look better than photoshop? Been struggling to get a reply....

It really depends on what kind of work you’re doing.  They’re very different tools.  One is not better than the other, they’re simply not designed for the same purpose.
    Also, “look better” is not very objective.  While their are certain objective criteria, (such as noise reduction,  colour accuracy, sharpness, etc) the perceived goodness of a image can’t be reduced to only those. That makes it next to impossible to say whether one is ‘better’ than the other. There’s a lot of preference involved in that kind ne of decision.  I would suggest downloading the free trial version to try it out for yourself. 

sanj

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Re: Phase One Releases Capture One 11
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2017, 10:17:58 AM »
Do files coming out of Capture One look better than photoshop? Been struggling to get a reply....

I would expect that in the right hands PS will always beat C1, LR etc.

Reassuring.

sanj

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Re: Phase One Releases Capture One 11
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2017, 10:20:35 AM »
Do files coming out of Capture One look better than photoshop? Been struggling to get a reply....

It really depends on what kind of work you’re doing.  They’re very different tools.  One is not better than the other, they’re simply not designed for the same purpose.
    Also, “look better” is not very objective.  While their are certain objective criteria, (such as noise reduction,  colour accuracy, sharpness, etc) the perceived goodness of a image can’t be reduced to only those. That makes it next to impossible to say whether one is ‘better’ than the other. There’s a lot of preference involved in that kind ne of decision.  I would suggest downloading the free trial version to try it out for yourself.

Thank you! I have met people who say Capture One has 'far superior' IQ. So always wondered. But if there is no such that C1 has better IQ then I need not worry. I have spent considerable time practicing PS and if it is not inferior, I am content.

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Phase One Releases Capture One 11
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2017, 12:09:13 PM »
I spent more time this morning, trying difficult cr2 images with detail in deep shadows.  I had to learn the various controls by trial and error, but found that they correlate pretty well to the Lightroom controls.  I thought at first that they were doing a better job, but then took the same image into Lightroom and got identical results.

For a person like me who has little dexterity in my hands, I quickly noticed the lost time moving the cursor all over the screen to select a tool, rather than being able to use the scroll wheel to move thru the various editing panels.  I did not like the way one panel sometimes closed when I selected another.  So, while its very powerful, I don't think my hands are up to it, even though I did quickly remember the location of the commonly used tools.

The export process was particularly confusing, and the print dialog was very lacking, watermarks were vertical only, unless there is another setting to change that.

Aaron D

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Re: Phase One Releases Capture One 11
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2017, 10:33:18 AM »
This is probably a dumb question but with Capture One do you HAVE to put your photos in libraries or collections (or whatever) like you do LR?  I use Bridge because I really dislike the whole "libraries" idea--I put things in folders.  And the filters in Bridge work about perfectly.  But I use DPP for conversion from CR2 to TIF because it yeilds an almost magical 3-dimensional quality that I can't get from Adobe RAW.  OK magical is overstating, maybe.

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Re: Phase One Releases Capture One 11
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2017, 10:33:18 AM »

GammyKnee

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Re: Phase One Releases Capture One 11
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2017, 10:57:35 AM »
This is probably a dumb question but with Capture One do you HAVE to put your photos in libraries or collections (or whatever) like you do LR?  I use Bridge because I really dislike the whole "libraries" idea--I put things in folders.  And the filters in Bridge work about perfectly.  But I use DPP for conversion from CR2 to TIF because it yeilds an almost magical 3-dimensional quality that I can't get from Adobe RAW.  OK magical is overstating, maybe.

You can avoid the whole import process as follows (going from memory):
  • During installation, choose the "session" option instead of the collection option
  • Create a single "master" session somewhere; when you delete images from within C1, they'll end up in here

After that, just browse to any folder containing images and get straight to work. A "CaptureOne" subfolder will be created inside there, holding the sidecar files that record your changes. You're free to move image folders anywhere you want, so long as the contents stay intact.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2017, 11:04:46 AM by GammyKnee »
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privatebydesign

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Re: Phase One Releases Capture One 11
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2017, 11:38:47 AM »
This is probably a dumb question but with Capture One do you HAVE to put your photos in libraries or collections (or whatever) like you do LR?  I use Bridge because I really dislike the whole "libraries" idea--I put things in folders.  And the filters in Bridge work about perfectly.  But I use DPP for conversion from CR2 to TIF because it yeilds an almost magical 3-dimensional quality that I can't get from Adobe RAW.  OK magical is overstating, maybe.

You don’t have to put images anywhere to work in Lightroom. It is just like bridge in that if you point it somewhere it will ‘see’ what’s there.

The “”libraries”” idea” is misunderstood, the library does not contain your images, it just reminds LR what you want the images in your folders to look like when it opens them.

So you import a RAW file to a custom folder on your desktop, open LR and point it to the image. In LR change it to B&W. If you open that RAW file in Photoshop or via your finder or any photo viewer via that folder the image is still color, open it in LR and the library file tells LR to show you the image in B&W, the library file doesn’t contain the RAW file, just your editing preferences along with a preview, the location of the file etc.
Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

ecqns

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Re: Phase One Releases Capture One 11
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2017, 04:17:45 PM »
while CP1 attempts to guess what would work for each photo so sometimes it gets you closer to your end point (or even to your end point) straight away, although sometimes it's not at all what you are looking for.  I have never tried to investigate further though.

Capture One has default camera profiles for each camera, maybe this is what you mean? You can use it to start with or use something totally different or nothing at all. I have to say (as a C1P user since v3) its color profiles are what sets it apart from anything else. Once in awhile I load up Lightroom (when it gets updated) and I can't believe people want to use that program to convert their files. I don't use the C1P catalogs, masking, brushes, whatever - just tethering in sessions and its raw profile conversion.

jd7

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Re: Phase One Releases Capture One 11
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2017, 07:04:54 PM »
while CP1 attempts to guess what would work for each photo so sometimes it gets you closer to your end point (or even to your end point) straight away, although sometimes it's not at all what you are looking for.  I have never tried to investigate further though.

Capture One has default camera profiles for each camera, maybe this is what you mean? You can use it to start with or use something totally different or nothing at all. I have to say (as a C1P user since v3) its color profiles are what sets it apart from anything else. Once in awhile I load up Lightroom (when it gets updated) and I can't believe people want to use that program to convert their files. I don't use the C1P catalogs, masking, brushes, whatever - just tethering in sessions and its raw profile conversion.

I'm not sure if that is exactly what the article was saying or not. I have found the article though - it is the Martin
Evening article you can find on this webpage
https://lightroomkillertips.com/brilliant-article-martin-evening-lightroom-vs-capture-one-pro/

I would be interested to hear from those who are familiar with both programs whether you agree with the article.
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ecqns

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Re: Phase One Releases Capture One 11
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2017, 09:31:55 AM »
while CP1 attempts to guess what would work for each photo so sometimes it gets you closer to your end point (or even to your end point) straight away, although sometimes it's not at all what you are looking for.  I have never tried to investigate further though.

Capture One has default camera profiles for each camera, maybe this is what you mean? You can use it to start with or use something totally different or nothing at all. I have to say (as a C1P user since v3) its color profiles are what sets it apart from anything else. Once in awhile I load up Lightroom (when it gets updated) and I can't believe people want to use that program to convert their files. I don't use the C1P catalogs, masking, brushes, whatever - just tethering in sessions and its raw profile conversion.

I'm not sure if that is exactly what the article was saying or not. I have found the article though - it is the Martin
Evening article you can find on this webpage
https://lightroomkillertips.com/brilliant-article-martin-evening-lightroom-vs-capture-one-pro/

I would be interested to hear from those who are familiar with both programs whether you agree with the article.

Without reading it yet I can say that Martin Evening is a full on Adobe guy, he writes books on Photoshop and Lightroom so I'm not sure his view is unbiased. His big Photoshop book is one of the best overall sources for learning Photoshop.

privatebydesign

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Re: Phase One Releases Capture One 11
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2017, 10:29:18 AM »
while CP1 attempts to guess what would work for each photo so sometimes it gets you closer to your end point (or even to your end point) straight away, although sometimes it's not at all what you are looking for.  I have never tried to investigate further though.

Capture One has default camera profiles for each camera, maybe this is what you mean? You can use it to start with or use something totally different or nothing at all. I have to say (as a C1P user since v3) its color profiles are what sets it apart from anything else. Once in awhile I load up Lightroom (when it gets updated) and I can't believe people want to use that program to convert their files. I don't use the C1P catalogs, masking, brushes, whatever - just tethering in sessions and its raw profile conversion.

I'm not sure if that is exactly what the article was saying or not. I have found the article though - it is the Martin
Evening article you can find on this webpage
https://lightroomkillertips.com/brilliant-article-martin-evening-lightroom-vs-capture-one-pro/

I would be interested to hear from those who are familiar with both programs whether you agree with the article.

Without reading it yet I can say that Martin Evening is a full on Adobe guy, he writes books on Photoshop and Lightroom so I'm not sure his view is unbiased. His big Photoshop book is one of the best overall sources for learning Photoshop.

Nevertheless it is a results driven point and when you look at his results, and follow the easy to create develop and or import presets, it is very easy to get C1 and LR default ‘looks’ within a hairs breath of each other. Which kinda puts comments like ‘the differences are night and day’ into context, they are a limitation of the user not the software. He also rounds out with a few pros and cons of each software, some things C1 does slightly better, some things LR has more control, but after reading the article and seeing the results I lost all interest in a trial of C1 and have lost respect for those with the opinion that C1 does a markedly ‘better’ job of working our RAW files.

I can understand people preferring one over the other, but they are not radically different in capabilities.
Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

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Re: Phase One Releases Capture One 11
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2017, 10:29:18 AM »

ecqns

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Re: Phase One Releases Capture One 11
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2017, 11:13:31 AM »
have lost respect for those with the opinion that C1 does a markedly ‘better’ job of working our RAW files.

That's a funny statement.

Anyway I come from a professional photography background - started working with fashion photographers in NYC. 99% of that world is shooting tethered C1P and Canon or a Phase back, LR doesn't exist.
Again I wouldn't say that Martin Evening is an unbiased source, trust your own eyes and try out both applications. That's what I do whether its Sony/Canon or C1P/LR.

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Phase One Releases Capture One 11
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2017, 01:30:28 PM »
This is probably a dumb question but with Capture One do you HAVE to put your photos in libraries or collections (or whatever) like you do LR?  I use Bridge because I really dislike the whole "libraries" idea--I put things in folders.  And the filters in Bridge work about perfectly.  But I use DPP for conversion from CR2 to TIF because it yeilds an almost magical 3-dimensional quality that I can't get from Adobe RAW.  OK magical is overstating, maybe.

The advantage of using a library is that the edit control settings are saved for each image along with a reduced size image that goes away after the time you set.  The library contains the key words and data about a image, so you can search by subject, faces, camera, lens, many different parameters.  When you get 100K images, it becomes very important.

Capture one gives you the choice, use a library, or a sidecar.  If you want to find a image, you will have to search by name.

Most editing software now uses libraries, or is heading in that direction.  It makes editing speed much faster, and provides photo management tools.

If you don't need a library, check out some of the other software that uses sidecars instead, or DPP which can update the original file.

The library is there in Lightroom because it was a elegant solution for professional photographers who need to track and find hundreds of thousands of images. 

For the first year, I was puzzled about the library and finally bought a book on how to use Lightroom 2.  After I read thru it and understood why the library was there, I realized what I'd been missing and now use it extensively.

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Re: Phase One Releases Capture One 11
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2017, 01:30:28 PM »