December 16, 2017, 05:50:19 AM

Author Topic: Why I Switched from Sony to Canon by Armando Ferreira  (Read 9541 times)

Talys

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Re: Why I Switched from Sony to Canon by Armando Ferreira
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2017, 09:47:04 PM »
Cool video!
Interesting what he said about 4k video and clog, not that I'll ever care about video.
Everything he said is about video, if you don't care about video then what he said should not mean anything to you.

I would be more careful when someone says this is why I moved from this to this, whether it is from Canon to Sony, or Sony to Nikon or whatever. They say it because of what they use the gear for. If you take that as a guidance of which camera is better then you may end up eating false info, unless you shoot exactly what they do.
He wouldn't praise the Canon codec if he needs 60fps 4K.
I praise it because I use JPG frame grab, while my friend hates it because he has to buy expensive CFAST; you cannot even export the damn thing through HDMI.

It's simply untrue that everything "Everything he said is about video, if you don't care about video then what he said should not mean anything to you."

1. Preference for Canon colors science applies to photography as it does for video.
2. LPE6 batteries and battery life apply to photography equally
3. Native EF Mount preference
4. Menu system
5. Dual Pixel AF is awesome for video, but it is ALSO great in live view photography.

For me, #1-4 are very important reasons to prefer Canon.  #5 is not a huge deal, only because I tend to AF through the viewfinder, mostly; however, DPAF is a superior live view autofocus system to competitors' implementations, in my opinion.

Personally, I would also add build quality, ergonomics, and unparalleled availability of third party accessories, that range from very cheap to super-premium.  The last one is actually pretty important to me - it's like, one reason to buy a Samsung Galaxy or Apple iPhone is an ecosystem of accessories that aren't available if you buy a Huawei or Acer.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 09:50:49 PM by Talys »

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Re: Why I Switched from Sony to Canon by Armando Ferreira
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2017, 09:47:04 PM »

transpo1

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Re: Why I Switched from Sony to Canon by Armando Ferreira
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2017, 01:27:09 AM »
No question Canon makes great products. That’s why we push for them to have better video. Canon 5DIVs are suitable for his level of production and workflow but the video features don’t measure up for most professionals. 4K crop, no 4K out, no 4K/60p or 1080/120p etc. We can only hope that the Canon FF mirrorless and next generation of DSLRs can improve upon this so they can once again hold the torch for hybrid hybrid video / photo shooters.

docsmith

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Re: Why I Switched from Sony to Canon by Armando Ferreira
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2017, 02:06:08 AM »
Good video. Thanks for sharing.  I also thought this comparison of the 5D4 to A7R2 was fair.
https://youtu.be/_8SouvgDqJ0

Mikehit

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Re: Why I Switched from Sony to Canon by Armando Ferreira
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2017, 07:30:03 AM »
If you need 4k,

That is my biggest question in these discussions - how many need 4K and how many want it because it is the new cool tech?
From what I see customers don't give a damn if something is 4k or high-res 1080. And watching in youtube who can see the difference? Given most pros use 1080 for things like films and documentaries and no-one watches those and whines about lack of detail. This looks to me like a guy who knows what is good enough and what customers will accept.
Yes, some people need it but 'most'......m'eh.

transpo1

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Re: Why I Switched from Sony to Canon by Armando Ferreira
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2017, 08:50:10 AM »
If you need 4k,

That is my biggest question in these discussions - how many need 4K and how many want it because it is the new cool tech?
From what I see customers don't give a damn if something is 4k or high-res 1080. And watching in youtube who can see the difference? Given most pros use 1080 for things like films and documentaries and no-one watches those and whines about lack of detail. This looks to me like a guy who knows what is good enough and what customers will accept.
Yes, some people need it but 'most'......m'eh.

Sigh...it’s the same old argument. Name brand OEM 4K TV’s are down to $400 or less this holiday season. We’re just talking about image quality and future proofing at this point with so many 4K TVs being sold. It’s embarrassing for Canon that so few of their cameras have this technology.

Not to mention you fundamentally don’t understand how 4K is used in web video. Much of 4K is used to recrop / reframe and for extra resolution for a 1080p finish. That nice, crisp 1080p video you like? Shot in 4K.

Thankfully, now with the vlog-crowd starting to use 4K on the GH5 and assorted Sonys, it will only be a matter of time before Canon is forced to include more competitive 4K in its stills lineup. And then we can put this to bed.

Besisika

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Re: Why I Switched from Sony to Canon by Armando Ferreira
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2017, 09:00:05 AM »
If you need 4k,

That is my biggest question in these discussions - how many need 4K and how many want it because it is the new cool tech?
From what I see customers don't give a damn if something is 4k or high-res 1080. And watching in youtube who can see the difference? Given most pros use 1080 for things like films and documentaries and no-one watches those and whines about lack of detail. This looks to me like a guy who knows what is good enough and what customers will accept.
Yes, some people need it but 'most'......m'eh.
The answer is simple, you need a 4K camera and not necessarily 4K footage. Two totally different things.
Look at behind the scene of your favorite directors for the past year or two and tell me any that doesn't use an external recorder, unless using a big camera?
Canon 1080P footage are soft (don't get me wrong - I am a Canon fan), while 1080P on an Atomos via HDMI is really fantastic. C100 and C100 II are built that way; these are 4K camera but record in 1080P, bypassing the need for an external recorder. That's why they are so popular; you have everything you need in one body.
On the other hand a 5D III output to the same Atomos delivers the same poor result as internal recording.
When I first got my 1DX II, I did enough test under different conditions to convince myself for the need to rig a Ninja plus 2-3 big Sony batteries around.

Additionally, sometimes you record in 4K so that you can stabilize, zoom in or pan/tilt in post, but your result is still 1080P.

It is not exactly, but similar to shooting photos in raw but publishing in JPG. Why don't you shoot straight in JPG? Why not buy a camera that shoot only in JPG and no raw? You know the answer.

privatebydesign

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Re: Why I Switched from Sony to Canon by Armando Ferreira
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2017, 09:11:41 AM »
If you need 4k,

That is my biggest question in these discussions - how many need 4K and how many want it because it is the new cool tech?
From what I see customers don't give a damn if something is 4k or high-res 1080. And watching in youtube who can see the difference? Given most pros use 1080 for things like films and documentaries and no-one watches those and whines about lack of detail. This looks to me like a guy who knows what is good enough and what customers will accept.
Yes, some people need it but 'most'......m'eh.

Sigh...it’s the same old argument. Name brand OEM 4K TV’s are down to $400 or less this holiday season. We’re just talking about image quality and future proofing at this point with so many 4K TVs being sold. It’s embarrassing for Canon that so few of their cameras have this technology.

Not to mention you fundamentally don’t understand how 4K is used in web video. Much of 4K is used to recrop / reframe and for extra resolution for a 1080p finish. That nice, crisp 1080p video you like? Shot in 4K.

Thankfully, now with the vlog-crowd starting to use 4K on the GH5 and assorted Sonys, it will only be a matter of time before Canon is forced to include more competitive 4K in its stills lineup. And then we can put this to bed.

Sigh, that’s the same old come back. It doesn’t matter how cheap the TV set or proliferation of capable cameras, what matters is the capacity to deliver to a wide enough audience to finance the billions of dolars needed for delivery infrastructure mprovements.

Very few people, a tiny percentage of the population, have internet service capable of delivering reliable 4K, because of that there is still very little 4K content available. Anybody can make 4K content, of varying qualities, but doing anything with it is still far from easy.

So bloggers make 4K, who can watch it?
So shoot 4K to crop, correct, downsample, why not shoot 2.5 or 3k to do that?
A cropped FF sensor at 4K is still giving a larger sensor area than most crop sensor 4K capable cameras, why do people miss this?
On a vertical based system, video, why did we go from vertical measurements (720, 1080) to horizontal ones (4K, 8k)?
Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

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Re: Why I Switched from Sony to Canon by Armando Ferreira
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2017, 09:11:41 AM »

Etienne

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Re: Why I Switched from Sony to Canon by Armando Ferreira
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2017, 09:13:25 AM »
The video makes excellent points, and great points in the comments here as well.

I sold my 5D3 two months ago and decided not to get the 5D4. The 5D4 is expensive but I would have bought it if it had a swivel screen and an additional more compressed 4K codec. They may seem like small things to some people, but they are huge to me. I am often operating 2 or 3 cameras at the same time and need to see the screens quickly.

I also love the DPAF, so I bought three new Canons: T7i, 77D, and M6 ... mostly because of DPAF and my Canon glass. For 1080p to Youtube these cameras do a good job, they are easy to use, DPAF eliminates most of my focus anxiety, and the footage needs very little color correcting.

But I'll probably still go with the Sony A7s III when it comes out, or A7rIII if it takes too long, because they are lighter than the 5D4, at least have a flip screen, and offer decent 4K options. But a Canon 5D with a full swivel screen would probably have won out for me ... the swivel IS that important.

Mikehit

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Re: Why I Switched from Sony to Canon by Armando Ferreira
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2017, 09:24:26 AM »

Sigh...it’s the same old argument. Name brand OEM 4K TV’s are down to $400 or less this holiday season. We’re just talking about image quality and future proofing at this point with so many 4K TVs being sold. It’s embarrassing for Canon that so few of their cameras have this technology.

Not to mention you fundamentally don’t understand how 4K is used in web video. Much of 4K is used to recrop / reframe and for extra resolution for a 1080p finish. That nice, crisp 1080p video you like? Shot in 4K.

Thankfully, now with the vlog-crowd starting to use 4K on the GH5 and assorted Sonys, it will only be a matter of time before Canon is forced to include more competitive 4K in its stills lineup. And then we can put this to bed.

Maybe if they used their cameras like proper professionals they would not need to rely on cropping and such like. ;D ;D ;D


Quote
...before Canon is forced to include more competitive 4K in its stills lineup.

My 5D4 already shoots 4k stills  ;D  ::)

Woody

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Re: Why I Switched from Sony to Canon by Armando Ferreira
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2017, 09:41:51 AM »
But a Canon 5D with a full swivel screen would probably have won out for me ... the swivel IS that important.

The 6D Mark II has a fully articulate screen.  ::)

horshack

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Re: Why I Switched from Sony to Canon by Armando Ferreira
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2017, 09:42:02 AM »
Very few people, a tiny percentage of the population, have internet service capable of delivering reliable 4K, because of that there is still very little 4K content available. Anybody can make 4K content, of varying qualities, but doing anything with it is still far from easy.

4K streaming requires 15-25 Mbps/sec. According to the FCC's most recent Broadband Progress Report, 37% of Americans have active broadband internet connections of 25Mbps or more. Here's the breakdown by state - states with an asterisk do not report the information:

Alabama 25%
Alaska 3%
Arizona 45%
Arkansas 24%
California 43%
Colorado 52%
Connecticut 43%
Delaware *
District of Columbia *
Florida 37%
Georgia 35%
Hawaii *
Idaho 25%
Illinois 40%
Indiana 30%
Iowa 6%
Kansas 26%
Kentucky 8%
Louisiana 36%
Maine 13%
Maryland 59%
Massachusetts 68%
Michigan 40%
Minnesota 42%
Mississippi 26%
Missouri 27%
Montana *
Nebraska 34%
Nevada *
New Hampshire 56%
New Jersey 58%
New Mexico 30%
New York 39%
North Carolina 16%
North Dakota 45%
Ohio 11%
Oklahoma 34%
Oregon 49%
Pennsylvania 46%
Rhode Island *
South Carolina 23%
South Dakota 40%
Tennessee 40%
Texas 26%
Utah 41%
Vermont 51%
Virginia 53%
Washington 52%
West Virginia 46%
Wisconsin 24%
Wyoming 46%

Source: https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-16-6A1.pdf

transpo1

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Re: Why I Switched from Sony to Canon by Armando Ferreira
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2017, 09:49:13 AM »
If you need 4k,

That is my biggest question in these discussions - how many need 4K and how many want it because it is the new cool tech?
From what I see customers don't give a damn if something is 4k or high-res 1080. And watching in youtube who can see the difference? Given most pros use 1080 for things like films and documentaries and no-one watches those and whines about lack of detail. This looks to me like a guy who knows what is good enough and what customers will accept.
Yes, some people need it but 'most'......m'eh.

Sigh...it’s the same old argument. Name brand OEM 4K TV’s are down to $400 or less this holiday season. We’re just talking about image quality and future proofing at this point with so many 4K TVs being sold. It’s embarrassing for Canon that so few of their cameras have this technology.

Not to mention you fundamentally don’t understand how 4K is used in web video. Much of 4K is used to recrop / reframe and for extra resolution for a 1080p finish. That nice, crisp 1080p video you like? Shot in 4K.

Thankfully, now with the vlog-crowd starting to use 4K on the GH5 and assorted Sonys, it will only be a matter of time before Canon is forced to include more competitive 4K in its stills lineup. And then we can put this to bed.

Sigh, that’s the same old come back. It doesn’t matter how cheap the TV set or proliferation of capable cameras, what matters is the capacity to deliver to a wide enough audience to finance the billions of dolars needed for delivery infrastructure mprovements.

Very few people, a tiny percentage of the population, have internet service capable of delivering reliable 4K, because of that there is still very little 4K content available. Anybody can make 4K content, of varying qualities, but doing anything with it is still far from easy.

So bloggers make 4K, who can watch it?
So shoot 4K to crop, correct, downsample, why not shoot 2.5 or 3k to do that?
A cropped FF sensor at 4K is still giving a larger sensor area than most crop sensor 4K capable cameras, why do people miss this?
On a vertical based system, video, why did we go from vertical measurements (720, 1080) to horizontal ones (4K, 8k)?

Anybody can shoot 5K or 6K stills but really- who needs them? Most web images do not need to be of that quality. A tiny percentage of the population have internet service capable of delivering those stills or have the 5K displays capable of delivering them. Do you see how this works? :)

Why not shoot 2.5K or 3K stills since you will only export it in 2K res and then view it on your non-4K or 5K display? It really doesn’t matter. Again- see how this works?

And we didn’t change- vertical measurements are still used for 4K and UHD- such as 2160p, etc. Your anti-4K bias is showing.

transpo1

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Re: Why I Switched from Sony to Canon by Armando Ferreira
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2017, 09:51:00 AM »

Sigh...it’s the same old argument. Name brand OEM 4K TV’s are down to $400 or less this holiday season. We’re just talking about image quality and future proofing at this point with so many 4K TVs being sold. It’s embarrassing for Canon that so few of their cameras have this technology.

Not to mention you fundamentally don’t understand how 4K is used in web video. Much of 4K is used to recrop / reframe and for extra resolution for a 1080p finish. That nice, crisp 1080p video you like? Shot in 4K.

Thankfully, now with the vlog-crowd starting to use 4K on the GH5 and assorted Sonys, it will only be a matter of time before Canon is forced to include more competitive 4K in its stills lineup. And then we can put this to bed.

Maybe if they used their cameras like proper professionals they would not need to rely on cropping and such like. ;D ;D ;D


Quote
...before Canon is forced to include more competitive 4K in its stills lineup.

My 5D4 already shoots 4k stills  ;D  ::)

Funny stuff! Not that I agree, but funny 😄

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Re: Why I Switched from Sony to Canon by Armando Ferreira
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2017, 09:51:00 AM »

privatebydesign

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Re: Why I Switched from Sony to Canon by Armando Ferreira
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2017, 09:56:23 AM »
Very few people, a tiny percentage of the population, have internet service capable of delivering reliable 4K, because of that there is still very little 4K content available. Anybody can make 4K content, of varying qualities, but doing anything with it is still far from easy.

4K streaming requires 15-25 Mbps/sec. According to the FCC's most recent Broadband Progress Report, 37% of Americans have active broadband internet connections of 25Mbps or more. Here's the breakdown by state - states with an asterisk do not report the information:

Alabama 25%
Alaska 3%
Arizona 45%
Arkansas 24%
California 43%
Colorado 52%
Connecticut 43%
Delaware *
District of Columbia *
Florida 37%
Georgia 35%
Hawaii *
Idaho 25%
Illinois 40%
Indiana 30%
Iowa 6%
Kansas 26%
Kentucky 8%
Louisiana 36%
Maine 13%
Maryland 59%
Massachusetts 68%
Michigan 40%
Minnesota 42%
Mississippi 26%
Missouri 27%
Montana *
Nebraska 34%
Nevada *
New Hampshire 56%
New Jersey 58%
New Mexico 30%
New York 39%
North Carolina 16%
North Dakota 45%
Ohio 11%
Oklahoma 34%
Oregon 49%
Pennsylvania 46%
Rhode Island *
South Carolina 23%
South Dakota 40%
Tennessee 40%
Texas 26%
Utah 41%
Vermont 51%
Virginia 53%
Washington 52%
West Virginia 46%
Wisconsin 24%
Wyoming 46%

Source: https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-16-6A1.pdf

Those figures are utter bullsh!t. I have 100Mbps service, which pans out with speed testing software, I can’t stream 4K reliably from YouTube or Netflix, indeed auto play on YouTube normally defaults to 720 even when 1080, 1440 and 4K are available, I can play 4k sometimes, but not regularly or reliably, indeed I went back to non 4K Netflix subscription because of the limited programs available and the fact that I couldn’t watch them when I wanted to.

Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

privatebydesign

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Re: Why I Switched from Sony to Canon by Armando Ferreira
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2017, 10:04:02 AM »
If you need 4k,

That is my biggest question in these discussions - how many need 4K and how many want it because it is the new cool tech?
From what I see customers don't give a damn if something is 4k or high-res 1080. And watching in youtube who can see the difference? Given most pros use 1080 for things like films and documentaries and no-one watches those and whines about lack of detail. This looks to me like a guy who knows what is good enough and what customers will accept.
Yes, some people need it but 'most'......m'eh.

Sigh...it’s the same old argument. Name brand OEM 4K TV’s are down to $400 or less this holiday season. We’re just talking about image quality and future proofing at this point with so many 4K TVs being sold. It’s embarrassing for Canon that so few of their cameras have this technology.

Not to mention you fundamentally don’t understand how 4K is used in web video. Much of 4K is used to recrop / reframe and for extra resolution for a 1080p finish. That nice, crisp 1080p video you like? Shot in 4K.

Thankfully, now with the vlog-crowd starting to use 4K on the GH5 and assorted Sonys, it will only be a matter of time before Canon is forced to include more competitive 4K in its stills lineup. And then we can put this to bed.

Sigh, that’s the same old come back. It doesn’t matter how cheap the TV set or proliferation of capable cameras, what matters is the capacity to deliver to a wide enough audience to finance the billions of dolars needed for delivery infrastructure mprovements.

Very few people, a tiny percentage of the population, have internet service capable of delivering reliable 4K, because of that there is still very little 4K content available. Anybody can make 4K content, of varying qualities, but doing anything with it is still far from easy.

So bloggers make 4K, who can watch it?
So shoot 4K to crop, correct, downsample, why not shoot 2.5 or 3k to do that?
A cropped FF sensor at 4K is still giving a larger sensor area than most crop sensor 4K capable cameras, why do people miss this?
On a vertical based system, video, why did we go from vertical measurements (720, 1080) to horizontal ones (4K, 8k)?

Anybody can shoot 5K or 6K stills but really- who needs them? Most web images do not need to be of that quality. A tiny percentage of the population have internet service capable of delivering those stills or have the 5K displays capable of delivering them. Do you see how this works? :)

Why not shoot 2.5K or 3K stills since you will only export it in 2K res and then view it on your non-4K or 5K display? It really doesn’t matter. Again- see how this works?

And we didn’t change- vertical measurements are still used for 4K and UHD- such as 2160p, etc. Your anti-4K bias is showing.

I deliver full sized images all the time, after shooting RAW I optimize and deliver full size jpegs, my clients demand it. Typical file size is a few Mb which is easily handled even by modest internet speeds.

I’m not anti 4K, I have 4K 60fps capable cameras. I am realistic about the market penetration the delivery problem poses. I can deliver 4K video files to my clients, they can’t then get those files to their customers easily or reliably, it doesn’t matter what hosting they use, their clients simply can’t view it reliably.

We did change, 4K and 8k is a horizontal pixel count, 720, 1080 is a vertical pixel/line count.
Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

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Re: Why I Switched from Sony to Canon by Armando Ferreira
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2017, 10:04:02 AM »