July 25, 2014, 05:25:56 AM

Author Topic: 7D Guinea Pig  (Read 7070 times)

Marsu42

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Re: 7D Guinea Pig
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2012, 02:41:13 PM »
Hopefully, this discussion doesn't turn into yet another "bash the 7D" thread.

One year ago, a 7D was just overpriced for having the same sensor - imho it took a "top of the aps-c line" premium. Now, as the priced has droppe so much I'd get a 7D anytime instead of my 60D *if* it would run magic lantern ... which it doesn't ... yet.

Now lets go and buy new 5D III/X capable glass:
* 100/2.8 Macro - yes, fine ... 800 Euro

... no, a third of that on ebay for the non-L - since you were talking of "glass", it's as sharp as the red ring version.

I wouldn't say that the 7D AF system is all that great. On paper sure, but I've had my fair share of erratic behavior with it.

Could you explain when the 7D af craps out? I got a 60D which practically has no reliable working af at all, I'd call it a "focus helper". I tried the 7D in a shop some time ago, and the af seemed to be amazing - but if you got any real-world experiences I'd be interested in them.

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Re: 7D Guinea Pig
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2012, 02:41:13 PM »

JonJT

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Re: 7D Guinea Pig
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2012, 02:53:28 PM »

Can you provide confirmation of your statement about FF being a stop faster?  I'm pretty sure that, for a given scene and a given perspective and, ignoring transmission loss, the same aperture/shutter speed/ISO will yield the same exposure on crop as it will on FF.  And so, even though the 24-105 has IS like the 17-55, it's never going to be more useful in low light as the IS is of an older design and, it has to stabilize a lens that is a full stop slower.



I suggest you go to DxO or any of the test sites to see just how much better big sensors are for high iso than APS-C . That is without trick pp  - straightout of the camera @iso 3200 my 1D4 is good, the 1Ds3 is excellent - and yes I compared it with my7Ds before I sold them.

I wonder how many time the high iso has to be explained:

iso 1600 @ f/2.8 is the same exposure as iso3200@f/4 at the SAME shutter speeds therefore the IS requirements will be the same for the 17-55 and the 24-105 as they are shooting at the  SAME shutter speeds

I see now that by faster, you were talking about ISO performance, not exposure for a given aperture/shutter speed/ISO setting.  By the way, I understand how ISO "works" perfectly well.  No need to be aggressive.

Anyway, upping the ISO might not be acceptable to everyone in every circumstance.  I like having the freedom to NOT have to up the ISO by one full stop when shooting in low light.  Perhaps I don't want to/can't deal with the extra noise or, perhaps I can't increase the sensitivity of the sensor any further.  I've been in both situations when shooting indoors on many occasions.  I always prefer a faster lens and, as you said, it's pointless to discuss particulars in this case because it's so personal.
I suggest you re-read my original post

Nevermind.... *sigh*

AprilForever

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Re: 7D Guinea Pig
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2012, 03:12:30 PM »
I don't know about using the 7D as a guinea pig.  It seems to me that plenty of pro wildlife/sports fotogs were happy with the 7D being a crop sensor as it gave them more reach.  It could have been the case of canon marketing saying - we have the sensor, we have the AF system, why not.  They only had a pro AF system on the 1D cameras.  Putting it on a crop sensor camera is just a way to use what they already had without eroding too much the sales of the 1D system.  How many sports fotogs do you see walking around with a 1D and a 7d strapped to their photography vests.  I see lots.

APS-C works. Once upon a time, 4x5 film was the stuff. 35mm film killed it. Sure now, and 4x5 quality will always beat 35mm quality. However, there are qualities beyond sterile image quality. FF digital requires lenses which are more expensive. It requires a larger camera. It's lenses are shorter. APS-C has serious benefits.

Nikon knows this. see how much they have put into their DX lineup? If Canon boggles this, Nikon will gladly scoop up disgruntled photographers with a shiny new D400.

Push this argument further and you get little cameras with iPhone sensors

Push it the other way, and buy Phase 1 digital backs. You will have all the quality you could ever want, and everything you've been missing out on with your FF sensor.

APS-C has major benefits over FF for portable wildlife photography. For what I do, even a 1Ds MK III would not suffice. It would require a bigger more expensive lens, and a lot more lugging. FF and APS-C are two different solutions to two different problems. And they both do their job well in their realms. But to nix APS-C in the 7D for full frame has far more drawbacks than benefits.
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x-vision

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Re: 7D Guinea Pig
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2012, 03:14:49 PM »
Here's my thoughts on the current situation, especially with the rumour of no 7Dmk2

'Guinea Pig' is a bit too strong of an expression but overall your point is valid, IMO.

Ever since the 7D was released, it's been obvious that the 7D 'platform' will be shared with a FF model.
From that perspective, the 7D was/is the testbed for this shared 'platform'.

This bodes very well for future 5DIII/X buyers, since they will be getting a camera that's been in field testing for two-three years ;D.

I think Canon originally thought that the 7D and its FF brother will happily coexist together.
The way things are going, though, 7D might just get a FF replacement instead of a FF brother.

The Nikon's D7000 and Sony's Nex-7 lowered too much the price of the 'enthusiast' models.

To be competitive with these models, Canon needs to lower the price of the 7DII or beef-up the the specs of the 70D.

The first option is not good for business.
But if Canon beefs up the specs of the 70D, then the 70D will kill 7DII sales - just like the D7000 killed the D300s sales.

So, the rumor that there will be no 7DII makes quite a lot of sense actually.

AmbientLight

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Re: 7D Guinea Pig
« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2012, 03:25:04 PM »
Your argument regarding the current market situation and Canon's intention to sell for higher prices instead of selling for lower prices makes sense to me. Take the new 24 and 28 lenses for example. They are upgraded with IS to be sold at higher prices instead of trying to sell them low on price. This makes sense to me. Selling for low prices hurts not only in terms of company reputation, but also in terms of profit and right there it hurts a lot.

Astro

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Re: 7D Guinea Pig
« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2012, 05:17:24 PM »
APS-C has major benefits over FF for portable wildlife photography. For what I do, even a 1Ds MK III would not suffice. It would require a bigger more expensive lens, and a lot more lugging. FF and APS-C are two different solutions to two different problems.

well to qoute a well known m*r*n of the web:

with the D800 and alike cameras you don´t need supertelephoto lenses anymore.
you can just crop from a 70mm lens instead.


not my words...  ;)

Marsu42

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Re: 7D Guinea Pig
« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2012, 05:20:03 AM »
with the D800 and alike cameras you don´t need supertelephoto lenses anymore.
you can just crop from a 70mm lens instead.

super-high mp count doesn't equal super-low iso noise - and I don't know the D800 noise levels. And of course your lens has to be very sharp to make good use of the sensor resolution - and I guess only good primes or very good, current zooms are able to to that.

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Re: 7D Guinea Pig
« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2012, 05:20:03 AM »