May 25, 2018, 08:46:36 PM

Author Topic: Kickstarter: The Universal Lens Cap by KUVRD  (Read 18421 times)

KUVRD

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Re: Kickstarter: The Universal Lens Cap by KUVRD
« Reply #75 on: December 14, 2017, 10:39:58 AM »
I realize that most people don't mistreat their equipment quite to the extent that I do. But, I am saying that maybe, just maybe, for some of us these might be worth considering.

My similar application would be throwing my [5D3 + lens attached] plus perhaps a spare small prime floating loose in a satchel -- happens all the time with my work laptop bag, which only has a laptop sleeve and a big open chamber.  I have Tenba photo inserts for it, but that completely commandeers the open compartment and sometimes I don't want to do that.

So I actually deconstruct the Tenba approach and use a beer coozy (it's money on the 50 f/1.4, 35 f/2 IS, 28 2.8 IS, etc.) for the spare lens rather than put an entire Tenba photo insert in the bag.  The camera + lens combo would get stuffed in a winter hat.  But that's like a lens protection alternative and not a lens cap / end cap alternative.  I still would use hard standard caps for everything in this scenario.

- A

All fair points. Thanks for the comment!

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Re: Kickstarter: The Universal Lens Cap by KUVRD
« Reply #75 on: December 14, 2017, 10:39:58 AM »

KUVRD

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Re: Kickstarter: The Universal Lens Cap by KUVRD
« Reply #76 on: December 14, 2017, 10:43:35 AM »
Been reading all the comments and the developer's responses and thinking.  I have to say that a front and rear traditional cap with a label on the front cap works well for me.  But, there are times when I bring along an extra lens or use a smaller bag where two lenses are in the same "compartment."  Presently, I use a piece of foam or an extra divider (bet we all have them left over from re-arranging bags) or wrap a lens in a lens sack or use a beer cozy to create a layer between these lenses. 

Another scenario is to use this (if it is more protective) instead of a beer cozy and an old sock that I might use for a 70-200 in a briefcase or small bag.

I can see using this product instead of a divider that I might need to "unvelcro" to get to the lens below.  I don't think this device is the every lens / every day answer for me but can see a place in my kit.

All great points! The ULC has been used as 'dividers' in camera cases and camera bags and often times photographers will stretch multiple ULCs onto one side of the lens which really cushions the lenses when they're next to each other!


KUVRD

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Re: Kickstarter: The Universal Lens Cap by KUVRD
« Reply #77 on: December 14, 2017, 10:44:30 AM »
Constructive dialog, a rare bird on the interwebs. Great thread.

I think so too!! :)

KUVRD

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Re: Kickstarter: The Universal Lens Cap by KUVRD
« Reply #78 on: December 14, 2017, 10:44:47 AM »
Other times I may be walking around a track meet, cross country meet, golf meet, etc., with a backpack where I'll throw in an extra lens or body. Again, I could see myself slipping one of these babies over a lens so I can just toss it in the backpack without taking much care or worrying about it bouncing around a bit.

I have some of these for just such occasions:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/4PCs-Waterproof-DSLR-SLR-Camera-Lens-Bag-Pouch-Case-Cover-For-Canon-Nikon-Sony/291882488488?hash=item43f58d52a8:g:Vv0AAOSwe7BWxoef

Oh these are really cool! Interesting idea!

KUVRD

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Re: Kickstarter: The Universal Lens Cap by KUVRD
« Reply #79 on: December 14, 2017, 10:54:50 AM »
I just hope the Breakthrough filters guy is taking notice.*

There's a way to respond to feedback fairly/honestly, harness our collective experience/perspective to improve your product (crowdsourcing the rev 2.0 if you will)...  Or you can just make a boatload of claims, imply we're using similar products incorrectly without substantiation and just say 'trust me' a lot.

- A

*[Ron Howard Arrested Development voice] "He was not taking notice."

Haha... more than anything, we want to better photographer's experiences with their cameras, their camera gear and help them get the 'perfect shot'. We are the first to admit that our product isn't for everyone and the last thing we would want is to claim that our product helps everyone, is for everyone and will fix all problems all photographers have. In fact, in this forum there have been several situations photographers have brought up where the ULC actually PREVENTS photographers from having a better experience with their cameras, their camera gear and even getting the perfect shot.... and we don't want that. If our product prevents photographers from enhancing their experience, we'll be the first to pull the ULC off our warehouse shelves and dump all the inventory in the trash. It's not about making a profit, it's about making a difference and a difference can't be made without adaptability, being able to take criticism and channel that feedback into a better iteration of the product until it's truly pure innovation; Actualizing an idea or invention into a good or service that generates value without creating new problems.

KUVRD

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Re: Kickstarter: The Universal Lens Cap by KUVRD
« Reply #80 on: December 14, 2017, 10:56:38 AM »
Thanks for coming on and replying to so many posts.  It's pretty awesome to see a product designer answer
Will likely reposition / alter your variable ND or CPL ring orientation each time you use it. NEVER in my life have I ever heard of a photographer who literally pulls out their camera and just takes a shot…. Photographers are ALWAYS adjusting knobs, camera settings, lenses etc. because of light, subject proximity, motion, etc.

The difference, though, is on a Variable ND or CPL, you set it to taste for the purpose, and may run around a whole bunch (like, while hiking) and you may not need to fuss with the filter again for a while (if you're taking similar types of shots).

KURVD right, Talys wrong.

Masks the true size/shape of the lens in your bag, making lenses harder to identify. haha, okay this was kind of a funny one. I don’t know about you, but I know of only three people that have more than 5 lenses…

Without trying to sound confrontational, I think there are a lot of people participating on this forum who have a whole lot more than 5 lenses :)  I know I do, and some of them that I may carry around at the same time do have similar dimensions.   Maybe a solution is to offer colored, patterned, or otherwise marked ones in the future.

Smart Talys. Optional extra: color stripe on rubber. Good.

OH! A color strip on rubber... interesting idea!

mnclayshooter

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Re: Kickstarter: The Universal Lens Cap by KUVRD
« Reply #81 on: December 14, 2017, 10:57:38 AM »
What is the vapor permanence rating of the product? 


To be more blunt:  Wrapping your lens in something that effectively locks all liquid phase, solid phase and/or vapor phase water up against and inside the lens body CANNOT be a good idea, especially for those of us who live in cold climates and travel from inside to outside and back inside (warm/humid to extreme cold/dry to warm/humid) and deal with condensation issues regularly.  Some suggest that wrapping your gear actually helps reduce condensation issues, which, in theory, it does... for vapor... but not for snow/ice/water that is physically already in contact with the equipment. 


Allowing water to evaporate and leave the lens body is important for any outdoor photographer if they hope to reduce potential for microbial growth in/on their equipment.   


Also, what is the modulus of elasticity of the product at various cold temps... for example: -40,-20F, 0F, 20F, 40F, 60F?


What stability does the product have over time (will any of it's compounds/chemical makeup outgas or degrade in various exposures such as heat- potentially levels achieved if equipment is left in the trunk of a car in mid-summer heat, UV exposure, various solvents such as lens cleaners, sensor swab chemicals, sunscreen for the photographer, sweat, bodily oils etc).  And does it have potential to dissolve the paint from the lens body?


For example... getting sunscreen on wood furniture, car paint, or just about anything else will, over time, peel the finish.  Most common solvents will also do this to plastic/elastic materials. 


In other words, how much lab testing has been done, and what are the results? 





Pull!... click... crap!  Lemme try it again...
Pull!  click... boom... crap! Lemme try it again...
Definition of insanity?

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Re: Kickstarter: The Universal Lens Cap by KUVRD
« Reply #81 on: December 14, 2017, 10:57:38 AM »

KUVRD

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Re: Kickstarter: The Universal Lens Cap by KUVRD
« Reply #82 on: December 14, 2017, 11:00:05 AM »
Hey, thanks for responding with your first sentence! Much appreciated! To respond to your second sentence, we intentionally stated that the ULCs are Shock-Absorbent and never state that it is drop-proof or shock-proof. You're totally right with a heavier and more expensive lens because we tried it! We purposefully conducted drop tests at a height from the hip, dropping one lens 43 times onto concrete (twice the size of a lens shown in the GIF), and another two lenses 27 times and 18 times onto asphalt before noticing internal damage...

Damage never happen only last time. Each drop weaken lens. When you do focal calibration check? When you do autofocus test?

Drop test dumb idea. People do it themselves. Damage lens. Maybe minuscule damage cannot see. Damage still exist.

Drop test dumb marketing.

Thank you for your comment! We did a focal calibration test, autofocus test and aesthetics test after every 3 drops. You're right though that it was a dumb test... we lost three lenses because of it... haha.. but yes, damage happens over time but one can drop a lens once and at just the right angle, height and point of contact, it will break the lenses. This is why we state it is shock-absorbent and not shock/drop-proof.

KUVRD

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Re: Kickstarter: The Universal Lens Cap by KUVRD
« Reply #83 on: December 14, 2017, 11:03:42 AM »
Thanks for coming on and replying to so many posts.  It's pretty awesome to see a product designer answer questions.

Does not coexist with hoods at all; no reversing hoods possible, more space in bag wasted on hood storage. For all the photographers who use hoods, this is not an issue. This is NOT a CON. It still stretches over a lens hood in reverse or when it’s locked into place at the end of lens. You are right that it does not work if you put the ULC on first and THEN the lens hood. It will not grab onto the filter ring. But, you can still put the lens hood over the ULC. It just wouldn’t be locked into place. Meaning it would not take up more space.

I think the easiest way to overcome this and objections about the time to put on or take off a lens cap is to have these in camera stores, were someone like me can just try it for themselves.  It's really hard for me to imagine the efficacy of a this with a hood, but it's entirely possible that I'm just not imagining it right.

Also, many Canon lens hoods have a button to unlock (facing outwards).  Wouldn't this concept interfere with that?

I also have a hard time imagining this being very helpful in being protective on some reversed hoods (or more protective than a regular lens cap), like 24-70 f/4, which has quite a bit larger outer diameter than the lens, but is quite shallow.
 

Will likely reposition / alter your variable ND or CPL ring orientation each time you use it. NEVER in my life have I ever heard of a photographer who literally pulls out their camera and just takes a shot…. Photographers are ALWAYS adjusting knobs, camera settings, lenses etc. because of light, subject proximity, motion, etc. In addition, we’ve stretched a Universal Lens Cap onto a lens, moved it around and then taken it off 115 times in a row, check periodically to see if the focusing ring or zoom ring change and the end result was that the focus ring was off focus by a few degrees. NOT enough of a PRO or a CON to place it on one side or the other.

The difference, though, is on a Variable ND or CPL, you set it to taste for the purpose, and may run around a whole bunch (like, while hiking) and you may not need to fuss with the filter again for a while (if you're taking similar types of shots).  Unlike a dial or knob, you can't see if it moved on you, and there's no lock.  Especially if you're outdoors, between stretches, you might want to pop a lens cap on to prevent your filter from getting scratched (since those can be super expensive), or even dirty (since some can also be a pain to clean).

On the other hand, the outer diameter of the filter is usually slightly smaller than the lens barrel, so perhaps it won't get moved much, because contact with the filter ring is minimal? 

Masks the true size/shape of the lens in your bag, making lenses harder to identify. haha, okay this was kind of a funny one. I don’t know about you, but I know of only three people that have more than 5 lenses…

Without trying to sound confrontational, I think there are a lot of people participating on this forum who have a whole lot more than 5 lenses :)  I know I do, and some of them that I may carry around at the same time do have similar dimensions.   Maybe a solution is to offer colored, patterned, or otherwise marked ones in the future.


For myself, it's hard to imagine this as a solution for me.  I know we're talking about only few seconds here and there, but I it doesn't seem like there are enough advantages to justify that.  However, I respect that you guys are trying to make something new and innovative, and if I see this in a camera store, I'll give it a fair shake!

Thanks much for your time.

I think the easiest way to overcome this and objections about the time to put on or take off a lens cap is to have these in camera stores, were someone like me can just try it for themselves.  It's really hard for me to imagine the efficacy of a this with a hood, but it's entirely possible that I'm just not imagining it right.

Excellent point! Our plan is to finish up the Crowdfunding Stages within the next 3 months and then get them into retail stores for people to try them out and see for themselves if they like it!

Also, many Canon lens hoods have a button to unlock (facing outwards).  Wouldn't this concept interfere with that?

Actually, it totally interferes with Canon Lens Hoods. The best would be putting on the lens hood in reverse, locking it into place and then stretching the ULC over the reversed lens hood.

I also have a hard time imagining this being very helpful in being protective on some reversed hoods (or more protective than a regular lens cap), like 24-70 f/4, which has quite a bit larger outer diameter than the lens, but is quite shallow.

Because of the ULCs elasticity, it can still stretch over the lens hood without issues!


Without trying to sound confrontational, I think there are a lot of people participating on this forum who have a whole lot more than 5 lenses   I know I do, and some of them that I may carry around at the same time do have similar dimensions.   Maybe a solution is to offer colored, patterned, or otherwise marked ones in the future.

Great idea! We might just do that in the future, which would allow a way to differentiate lenses. Thank you for that insight!

For myself, it's hard to imagine this as a solution for me.  I know we're talking about only few seconds here and there, but I it doesn't seem like there are enough advantages to justify that.  However, I respect that you guys are trying to make something new and innovative, and if I see this in a camera store, I'll give it a fair shake!

Thank you for your feedback and hopefully we’ll be able to get it into camera stores soon for that exact reason!

KUVRD

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Re: Kickstarter: The Universal Lens Cap by KUVRD
« Reply #84 on: December 14, 2017, 11:37:46 AM »
What is the vapor permanence rating of the product? 


To be more blunt:  Wrapping your lens in something that effectively locks all liquid phase, solid phase and/or vapor phase water up against and inside the lens body CANNOT be a good idea, especially for those of us who live in cold climates and travel from inside to outside and back inside (warm/humid to extreme cold/dry to warm/humid) and deal with condensation issues regularly.  Some suggest that wrapping your gear actually helps reduce condensation issues, which, in theory, it does... for vapor... but not for snow/ice/water that is physically already in contact with the equipment. 


Allowing water to evaporate and leave the lens body is important for any outdoor photographer if they hope to reduce potential for microbial growth in/on their equipment.   


Also, what is the modulus of elasticity of the product at various cold temps... for example: -40,-20F, 0F, 20F, 40F, 60F?


What stability does the product have over time (will any of it's compounds/chemical makeup outgas or degrade in various exposures such as heat- potentially levels achieved if equipment is left in the trunk of a car in mid-summer heat, UV exposure, various solvents such as lens cleaners, sensor swab chemicals, sunscreen for the photographer, sweat, bodily oils etc).  And does it have potential to dissolve the paint from the lens body?


For example... getting sunscreen on wood furniture, car paint, or just about anything else will, over time, peel the finish.  Most common solvents will also do this to plastic/elastic materials. 


In other words, how much lab testing has been done, and what are the results?

Quote
What is the vapor permanence rating of the product? 

To be more blunt:  Wrapping your lens in something that effectively locks all liquid phase, solid phase and/or vapor phase water up against and inside the lens body CANNOT be a good idea, especially for those of us who live in cold climates and travel from inside to outside and back inside (warm/humid to extreme cold/dry to warm/humid) and deal with condensation issues regularly.  Some suggest that wrapping your gear actually helps reduce condensation issues, which, in theory, it does... for vapor... but not for snow/ice/water that is physically already in contact with the equipment.

Allowing water to evaporate and leave the lens body is important for any outdoor photographer if they hope to reduce potential for microbial growth in/on their equipment.


Now these are great questions! We have a couple of photographers who have used the ULC in Iceland and in the Great Rocky Mountains and state that there were no issues…. but they were there for only a week which, in my mind, wouldn’t be a strong enough case to determine if potentially trapped humidity over a long period of time - because of the ULC - wouldn’t negatively affect a lens. We also have a concert photographer who travels all around the world photographing the DJs at Techno Concerts. He enters and exits dry, humid, wet, cold and hot environments on a daily basis and has reported no issues with his lenses using the ULC. Finally, we have NOT received a vapor permanence rating.

Quote
Also, what is the modulus of elasticity of the product at various cold temps... for example: -40,-20F, 0F, 20F, 40F, 60F?

What stability does the product have over time (will any of it's compounds/chemical makeup outgas or degrade in various exposures such as heat- potentially levels achieved if equipment is left in the trunk of a car in mid-summer heat, UV exposure, various solvents such as lens cleaners, sensor swab chemicals, sunscreen for the photographer, sweat, bodily oils etc).  And does it have potential to dissolve the paint from the lens body?

For example... getting sunscreen on wood furniture, car paint, or just about anything else will, over time, peel the finish.  Most common solvents will also do this to plastic/elastic materials. 

In other words, how much lab testing has been done, and what are the results?
 

Another awesome question! We are testing that now to determine elasticity at -20F, 0F, 20F, 40F, 75F, 100F and 200F. We’ll leave them in those temperature controlled environments for 1 hour, 3 hours, 6 hours, 24 hours and 48 hours, testing the elasticity at each tier to determine the elasticity of the ULC. We’ll have to get back to you about this test results. In regards to structural integrity, it has indefinite stability… but if any of the materials or workmanship of the ULC degrade or the ULC breaks in some way, it’s guaranteed for life so we’ll replace it at that point. Hopefully that helped answer your questions a bit. :)

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Re: Kickstarter: The Universal Lens Cap by KUVRD
« Reply #85 on: December 14, 2017, 01:35:26 PM »
I feel like we've harassed Mr. Kuvrd about enough. He's been very patient, but I think it's time to wrap up this thread.  Anyone with half a brain can determine for themselves whether or not this is a product they would be interested in. The dead horse has been flogged into dust at this point.

jolyonralph

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Re: Kickstarter: The Universal Lens Cap by KUVRD
« Reply #86 on: December 19, 2017, 08:17:20 AM »
Jolyon Ralph

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Re: Kickstarter: The Universal Lens Cap by KUVRD
« Reply #87 on: December 19, 2017, 11:10:54 AM »
Now I saw this today and immediately starting wondering if this might be connected  ;D

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/twopillars/unilid?ref=rrea.ch&utm_source=rrea.ch&utm_medium=facebook&utm_term=rrea.ch&utm_campaign=wwhb_006

Silicone is everywhere these days.  It's a problem-solver, yo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ytc-LWxPFVg

We use a set of covers like this (Magnifique is the brand) in our kitchen.  It's gold for leftovers when you don't want to transfer from your bowl to Tupperware and it has eliminated the need to waste Saran wrap in the microwave to block splatter.

So it's not a flying leap to extrapolate covering things (my link above) to wrapping things (your prior link) to protecting a camera lens.  You just need to play around with the durometer to get the right balance of firm/stretchy and then you start optimizing the shape, dialing in the grippable elements, surface finish, etc.

It's not a trivial endeavor to bring a product like this to market -- not at all.  But the progression of applications of these materials makes perfect sense. 

- A
« Last Edit: December 19, 2017, 11:12:55 AM by ahsanford »

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Re: Kickstarter: The Universal Lens Cap by KUVRD
« Reply #87 on: December 19, 2017, 11:10:54 AM »

jolyonralph

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Re: Kickstarter: The Universal Lens Cap by KUVRD
« Reply #88 on: December 20, 2017, 07:16:38 AM »
I'm not being critical. I think the kickstarter project has a lot of potential.
Jolyon Ralph

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Re: Kickstarter: The Universal Lens Cap by KUVRD
« Reply #89 on: December 20, 2017, 08:33:42 AM »
Idea: buy kurvd, cut ends. Rubber shell for lens use all time.

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Re: Kickstarter: The Universal Lens Cap by KUVRD
« Reply #89 on: December 20, 2017, 08:33:42 AM »