February 24, 2018, 09:28:30 AM

Author Topic: Lensrentals.com Puts the EF 85mm f/1.4L IS Through The Machine Testing  (Read 5580 times)

Canon Rumors

  • Administrator
  • Canon EF 600mm f/4L IS II
  • *****
  • Posts: 6343
    • Canon Rumors
Roger over at Lensrentals.com has completed his OLAF testing of the brand new Canon EF 85mm f/1.4L IS. There are lots of charts and all of that to look at.

From Lensrentals.com:

This is a lens where the designer has focused on being very good in as many situations as possible rather than obtaining the highest possible MTF. It’s apparently designed for the person who uses 85mm in a lot of different situations; especially in low light situations.

It’s very sharp, the field is designed to get good focus no matter where you focus, and all reports indicate that the focusing is quick and accurate. If you take a ton of shots, your keeper rate is going to be exceptionally high. And if you shoot in poor lighting with an 85mm it will be amazing compared to almost anything else available in Canon mount. Real the full test at Lensrentals.com

I also must say that I didn’t realize that current EF 85mm f/1.2L II uses an optical design from the early 1970s, that’s a pretty incredible run.

The Canon 85mm f/1.2 II lens, the king of creamy bokeh, is basically a 40-year old optical design first released in 1976 (in FD mount) and released as an EF mount lens after some slight optical modification in 1989. The “II” version, released in 2006, was an electrical/mechanical change only, the optics remained the same. That’s an amazing run for a photography lens. It was designed in the early 1970’s and is still used frequently today.

Consider this day a success.

« Last Edit: January 04, 2018, 06:47:38 PM by Canon Rumors »
canonrumors.com

canon rumors FORUM


aceflibble

  • EOS M5
  • ****
  • Posts: 240
Re: Lensrentals.com Puts the EF 85mm f/1.4L IS Through The Machine Testing
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2018, 08:34:30 PM »
The optics of the 85 f/1.2 aren't really that old. That's a fairly significant misrepresentation of the facts, or a plain huge misunderstanding of how lenses are made, depending on how naive the writer wishes to admit to being. The FD and both EFs have the same number of elements, but the FD is 6 groups, not 7 as the EF mounts are. The bigger difference which you don't see by just looking at the bare optical formula is the shape of several elements were slightly changed between the FD to EF move, and of course the materials and coatings have changed drastically, first with the move from FD to EF and again with the mark II. The aperture blades also changed from the FD to EF, and the inner housing was updated to a different texture which, at least in theory, should have helped with inner reflections. (Though because the coatings and actual lens materials also changed, it's hard to pin any improvements on something as relatively minor as the housing.)

Roger has the actual testing nailed, but that bit of trivia he dropped is really quite misleading.

Ah-Keong

  • EOS Rebel SL2
  • ***
  • Posts: 79
Re: Lensrentals.com Puts the EF 85mm f/1.4L IS Through The Machine Testing
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2018, 08:43:06 PM »
In my opinion, there is nothing much to correct from the dual Gaussian optical design of the 85mm f/1,2L. I love the fact, the lesser the elements/groups,  the simpler the design.

If there were a "85mm f/1,2L mark III", I would add:

a) new coatings
b) weather sealing
c) faster AF or new USM design
d) mechanical focusing override
e) no change in length when focusing

Canon 7D Mark II | Canon EF-S 10-18mm | Sigma DC 18-35mm ART| EF 70-200mm f/2,8L
Canon Speedlite 430EX III-RT |

Woody

  • EOS 5DS R
  • ******
  • Posts: 1012
Re: Lensrentals.com Puts the EF 85mm f/1.4L IS Through The Machine Testing
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2018, 12:48:18 AM »
For me, the most important aspect and one that Canon does really well this time is the low copy-to-copy variance.

LENS --> VARIANCE
Zeiss Milvus 85mm f1.4 --> 29
Canon 85mm f1.4 L IS --> 31
Zeiss Otus 85mm f/1.4 --> 32
Sigma 85mm f1.4 Art --> 40
Nikon 85mm f/1.4G AF-S --> 35
Tamron 85mm f/1.8 VC --> 47
Sony FE 85mm f/1.4 GM --> 61
Canon 85mm f1.8 --> 65

Sony is pretty awful in this regard given its release date (2016).

ahsanford

  • Canon EF 600mm f/4L IS II
  • **********
  • Posts: 6256
  • USM > STM
Re: Lensrentals.com Puts the EF 85mm f/1.4L IS Through The Machine Testing
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2018, 02:21:17 AM »
In my opinion, there is nothing much to correct from the dual Gaussian optical design of the 85mm f/1,2L. I love the fact, the lesser the elements/groups,  the simpler the design.

Focus by wire + external (telescoping) focusing + very slow AF are all problems the new f/1.4L IS has addressed.

- A

jolyonralph

  • EOS 7D Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 489
    • Every Other Shot
Re: Lensrentals.com Puts the EF 85mm f/1.4L IS Through The Machine Testing
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2018, 07:45:34 AM »
In my opinion, there is nothing much to correct from the dual Gaussian optical design of the 85mm f/1,2L. I love the fact, the lesser the elements/groups,  the simpler the design.

Focus by wire + external (telescoping) focusing + very slow AF are all problems the new f/1.4L IS has addressed.

- A

That's all very well if clinical sharpness is all you look for in an 85mm lens. I'm sure the new lens is great (I haven't tried it yet), but I very much doubt it has the same character as the 1.2 II.  I'd also love a 1.2 III, although I'm still happy with the II

I'd love to get the 1.4 IS as well, but for different photography entirely.
Jolyon Ralph

Cameras: 5DSR, A7RII, 5D III, EOS M6/M5/M3, Mavic Pro, DXO One.  Oh, and more lenses than I care to count.

arthurbikemad

  • EOS 6D Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 430
Re: Lensrentals.com Puts the EF 85mm f/1.4L IS Through The Machine Testing
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2018, 08:03:11 AM »
In my opinion, there is nothing much to correct from the dual Gaussian optical design of the 85mm f/1,2L. I love the fact, the lesser the elements/groups,  the simpler the design.

Focus by wire + external (telescoping) focusing + very slow AF are all problems the new f/1.4L IS has addressed.

- A

That's all very well if clinical sharpness is all you look for in an 85mm lens. I'm sure the new lens is great (I haven't tried it yet), but I very much doubt it has the same character as the 1.2 II.  I'd also love a 1.2 III, although I'm still happy with the II

I'd love to get the 1.4 IS as well, but for different photography entirely.

Same as this, I own the 1.2II and want the new 1.4, as is I still choose the 1.2II over other modern lenses I carry, like the 35II for portrait etc, even though the 1.2II is SLOW and FULL of CA at times it does have the magic, I also shoot with my 200/2 BUT there are plenty of times its just way to long, like the 135! 85mm is such a good focal length I think it could well justify owning them both, then and only then can I decide to keep them all or let one go...??  :o

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Lensrentals.com Puts the EF 85mm f/1.4L IS Through The Machine Testing
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2018, 08:03:11 AM »

Bernard

  • EOS Rebel T7i
  • ****
  • Posts: 127
Re: Lensrentals.com Puts the EF 85mm f/1.4L IS Through The Machine Testing
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2018, 08:15:18 AM »
The reason why the 1.2 is slow to focus is because it is unit-focusing. That means all the glass moves back and forth. That's a lot of weight to move.
An AF-optimized design would use a light "focusing group."

RogerCicala

  • PowerShot G7 X Mark II
  • **
  • Posts: 18
Re: Lensrentals.com Puts the EF 85mm f/1.4L IS Through The Machine Testing
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2018, 08:22:00 AM »
The optics of the 85 f/1.2 aren't really that old. That's a fairly significant misrepresentation of the facts, or a plain huge misunderstanding of how lenses are made, depending on how naive the writer wishes to admit to being. The FD and both EFs have the same number of elements, but the FD is 6 groups, not 7 as the EF mounts are. The bigger difference which you don't see by just looking at the bare optical formula is the shape of several elements were slightly changed between the FD to EF move, and of course the materials and coatings have changed drastically, first with the move from FD to EF and again with the mark II. The aperture blades also changed from the FD to EF, and the inner housing was updated to a different texture which, at least in theory, should have helped with inner reflections. (Though because the coatings and actual lens materials also changed, it's hard to pin any improvements on something as relatively minor as the housing.)

Roger has the actual testing nailed, but that bit of trivia he dropped is really quite misleading.

The optical adjustments made were largely made to adjust to the different EF mount. If you recall, the FD to EF adapter required an optical element - the extra element is basically built into the EF 85 lens. There were technical changes as you mention and additionally changes in focusing motors and electronics. There was also capability to grind the aspheric more accurately and to a different curve. I wasn't trying to state they were optically identical, simply that the EF f/1.2 maintains the original Double-Gauss design with minor modifications. The newer lens is a more typical 85mm telephoto design.

Roger

YuengLinger

  • EOS-1D X Mark II
  • *******
  • Posts: 1654
Re: Lensrentals.com Puts the EF 85mm f/1.4L IS Through The Machine Testing
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2018, 10:27:44 AM »
In my opinion, there is nothing much to correct from the dual Gaussian optical design of the 85mm f/1,2L. I love the fact, the lesser the elements/groups,  the simpler the design.

Focus by wire + external (telescoping) focusing + very slow AF are all problems the new f/1.4L IS has addressed.

- A

That's all very well if clinical sharpness is all you look for in an 85mm lens. I'm sure the new lens is great (I haven't tried it yet), but I very much doubt it has the same character as the 1.2 II.  I'd also love a 1.2 III, although I'm still happy with the II

I'd love to get the 1.4 IS as well, but for different photography entirely.

I believe the differences are imperceptible and the magic is a frame of mind.  But that's just from using the new one for two days.  Time will tell.

ahsanford

  • Canon EF 600mm f/4L IS II
  • **********
  • Posts: 6256
  • USM > STM
Re: Lensrentals.com Puts the EF 85mm f/1.4L IS Through The Machine Testing
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2018, 11:13:22 AM »
Focus by wire + external (telescoping) focusing + very slow AF are all problems the new f/1.4L IS has addressed.

- A

That's all very well if clinical sharpness is all you look for in an 85mm lens. I'm sure the new lens is great (I haven't tried it yet), but I very much doubt it has the same character as the 1.2 II.  I'd also love a 1.2 III, although I'm still happy with the II

I'd love to get the 1.4 IS as well, but for different photography entirely.

Clinical sharpness is not all I look for. 

A lens that focuses before next Tuesday is something I look for. 

A lens that lets me shoot handheld in low light and be able walk the ISO down 4 stops is something I look for. 

A lens that lets me manually adjust focus with instant mechanical responsiveness (no FBW, checking in the with body, etc.) is something I look for. 

A lens that it sealed and is not externally focusing with a protruding inner barrel is something I look for.

We can talk about magic and rendering all day, and it's not unimportant.  But I definitely think the proof has not been brought forward to say that the small bit of extra magic from f/1.2 (and how the prior design renders) means that the two lenses are for different purposes.  I look forward to endless wide open bokeh comparisons that I'm sure are already in progress.  It may just turn out that the f/1.4L IS is 98% as good for portraiture as the f/1.2L II and the AF + IS unlocks 2-3 other arenas of photography (events, reportage, etc.) that the f/1.2L II struggled with.

But I'm not for a moment saying 'sharpness is everything, and since the new one is sharper we should only use that', because -- were that true -- we'd all own the Sigma.  Other things matter, and I think Canon absolutely got those other things right with the new lens.  The new lens is a wonderful instrument.
 
- A

LSXPhotog

  • EOS M5
  • ****
  • Posts: 193
    • Kevin DiOssi Photography
Re: Lensrentals.com Puts the EF 85mm f/1.4L IS Through The Machine Testing
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2018, 12:38:41 PM »
Happy to see the placebo effect of buying a new lens and convincing myself the new lens was almost just as sharp as the Sigma wasn't me going crazy. When I had both lenses I truly couldn't tell much difference between the two in sharpness. The implementation of Image Stabilization is absolutely awesome. So I didn't feel bad about letting the Art lens go...it was a love/hate relationship for the year I had it since launch in 2016.

This lens simply excelled at a wedding last month. It was extremely accurate in all situations with autofocus, sharpness was excellent, and the bokeh was simply beautiful.

I think a lot of people really thought we would see a repeat performance of Canon's proverbial mic drop it gave us with its new 35mm, but we got a totally different kind of mic drop. This is, without a doubt, the most usable 85mm on the market that's a true Jack of All Trades. I shoot an enormous variety of subject from motorsports, editorial, weddings, events, and portraits. This is the first 85mm I've owned that I can honestly say it will work for everything I shoot. The Sigma was great for slowed down work where I could check the images and adjust/reshoot as needed, but this lens removes the chimping and just works as any professional tool should.

- Kevin
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 12:40:47 PM by LSXPhotog »
- Kevin
1DX Mk II/5D Mk IV/SL2/M5 - 5x Flashpoint XPLOR 600s
Primes: EF 40mm f/2.8| Sigma 50 Art | Canon 85mm f/1.4L | EF 100L Macro | EF 135L | Zooms: EF 16-35 f2.8L III | EF 24-70mm II f/2.8L | EF 24-105mm f/4L IS II | EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II | EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L

ahsanford

  • Canon EF 600mm f/4L IS II
  • **********
  • Posts: 6256
  • USM > STM
Re: Lensrentals.com Puts the EF 85mm f/1.4L IS Through The Machine Testing
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2018, 12:47:24 PM »
Yep, I just rented the f/1.4L IS and I'll add the AF is absolutely brilliant -- the best AF experience I've ever had with a wide aperture lens. 

Prior use of the Sigma 35 Art, 50L, and my old 50 f/1.4 had simply wretched hit rates wider than f/2 (esp. off center) on my 5D3, while this new one excelled there.  It was so much fun to use without worrying about chimping for the odd/erratic misses.

- A

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Lensrentals.com Puts the EF 85mm f/1.4L IS Through The Machine Testing
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2018, 12:47:24 PM »

YuengLinger

  • EOS-1D X Mark II
  • *******
  • Posts: 1654
Re: Lensrentals.com Puts the EF 85mm f/1.4L IS Through The Machine Testing
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2018, 02:27:31 PM »
Here's one that I took trying to show bokeh at various distances.  Sorry no Christmas lights in the background.

Straight out of camera, converted with DPP. Shot at f/1.4, 1/15th sec, ISO 100, on a 5DIII.  Live View AF, camera placed on another stool.  Right at MFD.  Window light camera right, some overhead LED from camera left.

I'm not seeing problematic CA.  Took some shots of shiny objects outdoors, overcast light.  Some green fringing in OOF areas behind subject, but easily corrected in LR with the little eyedropper.  Certainly less fringing than the 1.2, significantly.

Btw, LR Classic CC still doesn't have the profile.

One other note, for shots taken with spot metering, I think I'm needing to overexpose about 1/3 more stop than with the 1.2, but nothing scientific here.  Just seems to need a bit more +EC.  A bit.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 02:43:05 PM by YuengLinger »

neurorx

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 37
Re: Lensrentals.com Puts the EF 85mm f/1.4L IS Through The Machine Testing
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2018, 04:52:17 PM »
Excellent review and beautiful pictures.   Just got my copy and I am looking forward to testing it out!

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Lensrentals.com Puts the EF 85mm f/1.4L IS Through The Machine Testing
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2018, 04:52:17 PM »