May 22, 2018, 09:53:25 PM

Author Topic: Shutter speed rule when shooting handheld  (Read 8908 times)

kat.hayes

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Re: Shutter speed rule when shooting handheld
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2018, 02:40:13 PM »
Thanks everyone.

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Re: Shutter speed rule when shooting handheld
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2018, 02:40:13 PM »

stevelee

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Re: Shutter speed rule when shooting handheld
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2018, 11:21:43 PM »
Sure, but you can also set an acceptable-to-your-tastes ISO cap to your personal preferences with Auto ISO.  My 5D3 is set to cap at ISO 6400 but I'll push that at concerts, super dim rooms, if I see an Elk after dark on the South Rim of the GC, etc.
- A

Yes, I know. I had to change the setting to allow auto ISO to go up to 40,000. I decided to give the camera a long leash and try out various situations, and then look at the data for any shots from which I thought I might learn something. I'm somebody who used to dare push Tri-X to ASA 800, so the higher numbers look scary until I see what the modern results are.

FTb-n

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Re: Shutter speed rule when shooting handheld
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2018, 08:50:14 PM »
Assuming a FF body, 2/focal length is a good starting point.  But this varies with the photographer, the lens, and the situation.

It always helps to develop good habits for holding a camera steady -- keep your elbows in, squeeze the shutter instead of hitting it, brace against a wall, etc.  I kneeling is appropriate for the shot, brace an elbow on a knee.  If tracking a moving subject, pan with the subject while shooting.  Some situations lend themselves to slower shutter speeds better than others.

Lens choice plays a factor here.  With a 24-70 f2.8L II on a 5D3 or a 1Dx, I generally shoot at 1/125 or faster at 70mm.  But, I recently tried an 85 f1.8 on these bodies and couldn't hold it steady consistently at anything slower 1/250.  I suspect that the weight and mass of the 24-70 had better dampening affect than the small, lightweight 85.

I strongly recommend shooting a test pattern (or a cereal box with sharp printed text) with each non-IS lens to get a feel for what your slow shutter speed limit is.
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RedCentrePhoto

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Re: Shutter speed rule when shooting handheld
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2018, 07:22:51 PM »
The out of date rule, 1/shutter speed was updated by Canon to suggest that 1 / 2 X shutter speed be used for modern high MP sensors and non-IS lenses.  For a 24 mp APS-C or 5DS, I'd use 1 / 3 X shutter speed when possible.

I always tried to use the fastest shutter speed possible with my 5D MK III, at least 1/125 for the 24-70 when light was low, otherwise faster.

If the subject is moving, it depends on the speed of the motion, birds in flight should usually be 1/2000 sec, but it varies even there.

This is something that is refined by experience with your type of shots, but start with higher shutter speeds and try lowering them a step at a time.  IS will greatly reduce the shutter speed needed for a stationary target, but if its moving, IS does not help.

This (1/2xFL) is the advice I got from a pro friend of mine, and it seems to work brilliantly for her. She does a LOT of wedding photography and gets fantastic results, all handheld. (BTW I'm assuming you wrote 'shutter speed' when you meant to use 'focal length'?)

I tend to shoot in aperture priority mode with auto ISO for the most part, and all I do is make a quick check that the auto-selected shutter speed is equal to or faster than (1/2xFL) and I'm good to go. If it's trying to go slower and using IS to compensate, I just force the ISO a bit higher to get the shutter speed up. Generally I don't have to though, it seems to work things out itself fairly well. (5D MkIV and 24-105 f4L ISII or 70-200 f2.8L ISII)
5D MkIV  |  16-35mm f2.8L III  /  24-105mm F4L II  /  70-200mm f2.8L II

neuroanatomist

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Re: Shutter speed rule when shooting handheld
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2018, 08:24:55 PM »
The out of date rule, 1/shutter speed was updated by Canon to suggest that 1 / 2 X shutter speed be used for modern high MP sensors and non-IS lenses.  For a 24 mp APS-C or 5DS, I'd use 1 / 3 X shutter speed when possible.

Interesting that Canon changed their recommendation.  I wonder if they have/will alter the firmware for newer cameras accordingly, to use faster shutter speeds in Av than 1/FL for FF and 1/(1.6xFL) for APS-C.  I've always found it interesting that Canon ignores IS when selecting a shutter speed in Av.
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RedCentrePhoto

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Re: Shutter speed rule when shooting handheld
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2018, 09:44:01 PM »
The out of date rule, 1/shutter speed was updated by Canon to suggest that 1 / 2 X shutter speed be used for modern high MP sensors and non-IS lenses.  For a 24 mp APS-C or 5DS, I'd use 1 / 3 X shutter speed when possible.

Interesting that Canon changed their recommendation.  I wonder if they have/will alter the firmware for newer cameras accordingly, to use faster shutter speeds in Av than 1/FL for FF and 1/(1.6xFL) for APS-C.  I've always found it interesting that Canon ignores IS when selecting a shutter speed in Av.

Do they do this? I wasn't aware of that! Perhaps I've been imagining it all along, but I perceive that it prefers a slightly lower shutter speed when I have IS on. Must be my mind playing tricks on me...
5D MkIV  |  16-35mm f2.8L III  /  24-105mm F4L II  /  70-200mm f2.8L II

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Shutter speed rule when shooting handheld
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2018, 11:13:24 PM »
The out of date rule, 1/shutter speed was updated by Canon to suggest that 1 / 2 X shutter speed be used for modern high MP sensors and non-IS lenses.  For a 24 mp APS-C or 5DS, I'd use 1 / 3 X shutter speed when possible.

Interesting that Canon changed their recommendation.  I wonder if they have/will alter the firmware for newer cameras accordingly, to use faster shutter speeds in Av than 1/FL for FF and 1/(1.6xFL) for APS-C.  I've always found it interesting that Canon ignores IS when selecting a shutter speed in Av.

They started offering the feature when the 7D MK II was introduced, but its not well known and not intuitive.  Its on the high end bodies, not on my SL2.

I set my 5D MK IV to +1.    At 100mm and "0", it sets a shutter speed of 1/100 sec, at 100mm and +1, it sets a shutter speed of 1/160 sec, at 100mm and +2, it sets 1/320 sec, and at 100mm and +3, it sets 1/640 sec.  You can set it to slow shutter speeds the same way. 

NEW: User-controllable “Auto” for minimum shutter speed with Auto ISO Another option for pre-setting the minimum shutter speed before Auto ISO goes to a higher ISO setting is “Auto.” In the past, this was simply 1/ lens focal length, and with standard or wide-angle lenses, the resulting slow shutter speeds sometimes meant speeds that were dangerously close to risking blurs from subject or camera movement. Think about it — in a fast-paced situation, such as (for instance) indoor wedding candids with a 16-35mm lens, do you really want speeds dropping as low as 1/15th of a second?
EOS 7D Mark II now offers a 7-step scale, to further fine-tune what the camera will do when you’ve set Auto for minimum shutter speed. It still uses 1/ lens focal length as the base, but with considerable adjustability. Three settings on the “+” side allow you to dial-in 1, 2 or 3 stops faster shutter speeds than whatever your current 1/ lens focal length setting is. And the “–” settings allow up to 3 stops slower speeds, for instances where you’re using Image Stabilization, or are otherwise confident that slower shutter speeds will be the right answer for you.
Particularly when working with zoom lenses having an extensive zoom range, the Auto setting gives flexibility to work with Auto ISO, and have appropriate shutter speeds for your longer focal lengths, and still allow for reduced — but safe — speeds at wide zoom settings.

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Re: Shutter speed rule when shooting handheld
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2018, 11:13:24 PM »

Mikehit

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Re: Shutter speed rule when shooting handheld
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2018, 04:12:56 AM »
Thanks for that. The number of times using my 7D2 I have mused 'wouldn't it be a good idea if...' and dammit they had already!

neuroanatomist

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Re: Shutter speed rule when shooting handheld
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2018, 06:45:59 AM »
Good to know, thanks!
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SjacPhoto

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Re: Shutter speed rule when shooting handheld
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2018, 01:38:43 AM »
Thanks to the image stabilization You should be able to go even below the reciprocal value nowadays.

Don Haines

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Re: Shutter speed rule when shooting handheld
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2018, 01:37:46 PM »
The out of date rule, 1/shutter speed was updated by Canon to suggest that 1 / 2 X shutter speed be used for modern high MP sensors and non-IS lenses.  For a 24 mp APS-C or 5DS, I'd use 1 / 3 X shutter speed when possible.

Interesting that Canon changed their recommendation.  I wonder if they have/will alter the firmware for newer cameras accordingly, to use faster shutter speeds in Av than 1/FL for FF and 1/(1.6xFL) for APS-C.  I've always found it interesting that Canon ignores IS when selecting a shutter speed in Av.

They started offering the feature when the 7D MK II was introduced, but its not well known and not intuitive.  Its on the high end bodies, not on my SL2.

I set my 5D MK IV to +1.    At 100mm and "0", it sets a shutter speed of 1/100 sec, at 100mm and +1, it sets a shutter speed of 1/160 sec, at 100mm and +2, it sets 1/320 sec, and at 100mm and +3, it sets 1/640 sec.  You can set it to slow shutter speeds the same way. 

NEW: User-controllable “Auto” for minimum shutter speed with Auto ISO Another option for pre-setting the minimum shutter speed before Auto ISO goes to a higher ISO setting is “Auto.” In the past, this was simply 1/ lens focal length, and with standard or wide-angle lenses, the resulting slow shutter speeds sometimes meant speeds that were dangerously close to risking blurs from subject or camera movement. Think about it — in a fast-paced situation, such as (for instance) indoor wedding candids with a 16-35mm lens, do you really want speeds dropping as low as 1/15th of a second?
EOS 7D Mark II now offers a 7-step scale, to further fine-tune what the camera will do when you’ve set Auto for minimum shutter speed. It still uses 1/ lens focal length as the base, but with considerable adjustability. Three settings on the “+” side allow you to dial-in 1, 2 or 3 stops faster shutter speeds than whatever your current 1/ lens focal length setting is. And the “–” settings allow up to 3 stops slower speeds, for instances where you’re using Image Stabilization, or are otherwise confident that slower shutter speeds will be the right answer for you.
Particularly when working with zoom lenses having an extensive zoom range, the Auto setting gives flexibility to work with Auto ISO, and have appropriate shutter speeds for your longer focal lengths, and still allow for reduced — but safe — speeds at wide zoom settings.

Sigh......

Yet more proof that my camera is smarter than me. I think I am going to give up, put it in "green box" mode, and leave the camera in control......
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Talys

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Re: Shutter speed rule when shooting handheld
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2018, 01:50:58 PM »
Another way to do it, if you know you don't have enough light for base ISO anyways, is to just use M, and set shutter speed to the lowest that you know that you can personally shoot handheld given that body and lens.  Then use the dial to manually balance between ISO and aperture.


Don Haines

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Re: Shutter speed rule when shooting handheld
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2018, 02:02:25 PM »
Another way to do it, if you know you don't have enough light for base ISO anyways, is to just use M, and set shutter speed to the lowest that you know that you can personally shoot handheld given that body and lens.  Then use the dial to manually balance between ISO and aperture.

Yes, that has been my method....
The best camera is the one in your hands

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Re: Shutter speed rule when shooting handheld
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2018, 02:02:25 PM »

Don Haines

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Re: Shutter speed rule when shooting handheld
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2018, 02:04:05 PM »
Thanks to the image stabilization You should be able to go even below the reciprocal value nowadays.

The image stabilization is great for movement from the photographer, but has no effect on subject movement ☹️
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mb66energy

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Re: Shutter speed rule when shooting handheld
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2018, 02:27:24 AM »
The out of date rule, 1/shutter speed was updated by Canon to suggest that 1 / 2 X shutter speed be used for modern high MP sensors and non-IS lenses.  For a 24 mp APS-C or 5DS, I'd use 1 / 3 X shutter speed when possible.

Interesting that Canon changed their recommendation.  I wonder if they have/will alter the firmware for newer cameras accordingly, to use faster shutter speeds in Av than 1/FL for FF and 1/(1.6xFL) for APS-C.  I've always found it interesting that Canon ignores IS when selecting a shutter speed in Av.

They started offering the feature when the 7D MK II was introduced, but its not well known and not intuitive.  Its on the high end bodies, not on my SL2.

I set my 5D MK IV to +1.    At 100mm and "0", it sets a shutter speed of 1/100 sec, at 100mm and +1, it sets a shutter speed of 1/160 sec, at 100mm and +2, it sets 1/320 sec, and at 100mm and +3, it sets 1/640 sec.  You can set it to slow shutter speeds the same way. 

NEW: User-controllable “Auto” for minimum shutter speed with Auto ISO Another option for pre-setting the minimum shutter speed before Auto ISO goes to a higher ISO setting is “Auto.” In the past, this was simply 1/ lens focal length, and with standard or wide-angle lenses, the resulting slow shutter speeds sometimes meant speeds that were dangerously close to risking blurs from subject or camera movement. Think about it — in a fast-paced situation, such as (for instance) indoor wedding candids with a 16-35mm lens, do you really want speeds dropping as low as 1/15th of a second?
EOS 7D Mark II now offers a 7-step scale, to further fine-tune what the camera will do when you’ve set Auto for minimum shutter speed. It still uses 1/ lens focal length as the base, but with considerable adjustability. Three settings on the “+” side allow you to dial-in 1, 2 or 3 stops faster shutter speeds than whatever your current 1/ lens focal length setting is. And the “–” settings allow up to 3 stops slower speeds, for instances where you’re using Image Stabilization, or are otherwise confident that slower shutter speeds will be the right answer for you.
Particularly when working with zoom lenses having an extensive zoom range, the Auto setting gives flexibility to work with Auto ISO, and have appropriate shutter speeds for your longer focal lengths, and still allow for reduced — but safe — speeds at wide zoom settings.

Thanks for clarification: I really like my SL2 but I have seen this "lack of feature" very soon and my first thought was that it is standard in higher end bodies but not implemented in SL2.
One more reason to long for a SL2x with AF adjustement capabilities etc.!

About the exp. time vs. focal length rule: I think Canon is right because roughly 6MPix was what I have seen with FF film - 24MPix is twice the linear resolution resulting in twice the sensitivity to shake. 24MPix on APS-C is 3x the resolution so you need 1/3 of angular deviation of the camera during exposure to get the same per pixel sharpness.
Most used tools: EOS 200D + EF-S 60mm + 4.0 / 70-200 IS AND/OR EOS 5D i  + 4.0 70-200 IS + 2.8 100 Macro

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Re: Shutter speed rule when shooting handheld
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2018, 02:27:24 AM »