February 21, 2018, 10:36:12 AM

Author Topic: Patent: Tamron 300mm f/2.8, 400mm f/4, 500mm f/4  (Read 6560 times)

StoicalEtcher

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Re: Patent: Tamron 300mm f/2.8, 400mm f/4, 500mm f/4
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2018, 10:31:38 AM »
Interested to see where Tamron would want to position this, if they produced them: do they go nice and inexpensive (but that will be linked to lesser materials) and then risk the criticism that the lens may be "cheap" (in the sense of not good) or go to the 50-70% price of Canon's product, with consequently better materials, but then look expensive for a non-Canon lens, which may not hold its value as well longer-term? 

I think there is a psychological price point for many people (certainly me) above which you think you may as well get the Canon product and be done.   Out of interest, if a Canon 400 f/4 DO is (say) £6,500 / $7,000 / €7,000 then how much would you be prepared to pay for the Tammy 400 f/4 before you decided if you're spending that much, you may as well go further and get the Canon?  For me, that is probably around the £2,000 mark max (if I were in the market for it).
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Re: Patent: Tamron 300mm f/2.8, 400mm f/4, 500mm f/4
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2018, 10:31:38 AM »

tiggy@mac.com

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Re: Patent: Tamron 300mm f/2.8, 400mm f/4, 500mm f/4
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2018, 12:27:49 PM »
Choice is normally good for the overall market, so I’m excited to see what comes from Tamron.  imho Sigma’s venture into that territory with the 500mm f/4 sports was just to expensive to choose over a used Canon edition.

Yeah, IglooEater, I was looking to buy a 500mm Sigma. Reportedly an excellent lens, just as good as Canon's, but for reported focus shift affecting apertures greater than f/4 (not a great concern for me). That said, I found a used 500mm L II for 116% the cost of the best used Sigma 500 cost, so I bought the Canon of course, as it doesn't have the focus shift issue, and it'll retain value much more over time.

Pretty sure we'll see Sigma's 500 come down to $4500 eventually from the $6k you see now. A sigma offering at 400mm could very well be a $2500 lens, if they chose to go for volume (something Tamron can do much more so than Sigma).

I suspect Tamron would do better to throw the 500mm into the market first, though. More demand, less competition. More of an upgrade market, where most owners of a 400 would need something special to "upgrade" to something that also only got 400mm.

Would expect a Tamron 500 f/4 to go for $3500. Being the cost of a decent pro body, that's a pretty darned reasonable package.

Further, I think the big white refresh from Canon will have to be priced lower than the version IIs simply due to existing and forthcoming competition. They might launch high, but I expect the effective price after discounts to be much lower than the current effective prices. When I borrow a big white from Canon now through its CPS program, they list on the invoice the value of the lens at $16,000, yet they charge $10k-12k in reality. Wouldn't be surprised if we are in the 5-figure range for the next generation once they catch up with supplying the market for those who just can't wait to pay the full price on pre-orders (a year in, typically).



RGF

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Re: Patent: Tamron 300mm f/2.8, 400mm f/4, 500mm f/4
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2018, 01:15:13 PM »
Canon had two 400/4.5 in the FD era, but they weren't brought to EF versions. Maybe they didn't sell that well?  Could there be more market for them today, when faster ISO are less an issue? Fast digital cameras and AF, plus cheaper travels, probably made wildlife photography more widespread, and maybe an f/4 may sell anyway.

Canon used rear drop-in filters, though, although I don't know how often filters are used on such lenses.

I remember a 500 F4.5 (I think EOS, not FD) but it was updated to 500 F4 IS (version 1)

RGF

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Re: Patent: Tamron 300mm f/2.8, 400mm f/4, 500mm f/4
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2018, 01:17:06 PM »

it'll retain value much more over time.


Wonder how true this is.  Not doubting the truth, just much better does Canon (or Nikon) glass hold their value than good 3rd party glass (excluding of course, Zeiss)

tiggy@mac.com

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Re: Patent: Tamron 300mm f/2.8, 400mm f/4, 500mm f/4
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2018, 01:40:14 PM »

it'll retain value much more over time.


Wonder how true this is.  Not doubting the truth, just much better does Canon (or Nikon) glass hold their value than good 3rd party glass (excluding of course, Zeiss)

I spent the last two years buying and selling cameras and lenses, using the arbitrage profits accrued to pay for the 500. In the course of that, I have noticed that the Canon lenses retain value for longer. That, in part, is due to much larger discounting on the 3rd parties hurting the aftermarket. There are other reasons. With Sigma still up at its launch price, it's I DON'T believe it's a good candidate for value retention.


tiggy@mac.com

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Re: Patent: Tamron 300mm f/2.8, 400mm f/4, 500mm f/4
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2018, 01:59:00 PM »
I've always thought it was a big opportunity lost over the past year or so for the lens companies not to make some long f/8 glass. Small and long. With bodies now doing pretty good AF at f/8, it's just obvious. Perhaps I'm just impatient, and it takes that long to design and start production.

My dream would be a 600 f/8 DO, which would cut down on both width and length.

slclick

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Re: Patent: Tamron 300mm f/2.8, 400mm f/4, 500mm f/4
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2018, 02:19:51 PM »
I've always thought it was a big opportunity lost over the past year or so for the lens companies not to make some long f/8 glass. Small and long. With bodies now doing pretty good AF at f/8, it's just obvious. Perhaps I'm just impatient, and it takes that long to design and start production.

My dream would be a 600 f/8 DO, which would cut down on both width and length.

If I lived somewhere with more yearly abundant sunshine, such as San Diego, I'd love longer and slower but living in a place with actual seasons and not as much available light, the need for f/4 is real.
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Re: Patent: Tamron 300mm f/2.8, 400mm f/4, 500mm f/4
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2018, 02:19:51 PM »

Plainsman

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Re: Patent: Tamron 300mm f/2.8, 400mm f/4, 500mm f/4
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2018, 10:02:10 AM »
....made in China very probably so QC suspect
...so better to purchase a used Canon equivalent for the same price

slclick

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Re: Patent: Tamron 300mm f/2.8, 400mm f/4, 500mm f/4
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2018, 11:02:35 AM »
....made in China very probably so QC suspect
...so better to purchase a used Canon equivalent for the same price

I find it hard to make build and pricing judgements on something that may or may not come to fruition
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Plainsman

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Re: Patent: Tamron 300mm f/2.8, 400mm f/4, 500mm f/4
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2018, 01:02:58 PM »
....made in China very probably so QC suspect
...so better to purchase a used Canon equivalent for the same price

I find it hard to make build and pricing judgements on something that may or may not come to fruition

Tamron will surely follow Sigma

preppyak

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Re: Patent: Tamron 300mm f/2.8, 400mm f/4, 500mm f/4
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2018, 01:31:08 PM »
hat, in part, is due to much larger discounting on the 3rd parties hurting the aftermarket.
3rd parties also do that to themselves. For example, Sigma 150-600 contemporary is nearly half its list price in about 3 years. The used market for that is comparably cheap...and if you bought early, well, you wont do that ever again with Sigma.

Whereas the Sports version has held its price, likewise for the Tamron G2. And their used markets are fairly steady as a result

Don Haines

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Re: Patent: Tamron 300mm f/2.8, 400mm f/4, 500mm f/4
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2018, 02:41:52 PM »
....made in China very probably so QC suspect
...so better to purchase a used Canon equivalent for the same price

I find it hard to make build and pricing judgements on something that may or may not come to fruition

I agree!

The day before Tamron came out with the 150-600, if you had predicted that lens for under $1000 people would have laughed at you. It arrived and sold out for half of a year, and then along came Sigma with another two..... Now they have the G2 version at almost L quality and with a dock for software updates for $1400. It is a very fine lens with a quality build.

If they make a prime of a similar build, it will be a very sharp lens and once again, probably sell out for a half year until production can catch up....

They surprised us once, they can do it again.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 10:10:53 AM by Don Haines »
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Mr Majestyk

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Re: Patent: Tamron 300mm f/2.8, 400mm f/4, 500mm f/4
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2018, 01:36:50 AM »
I think your are wrong about a 400 f/4 being much cheaper. The 400 f/4 DO II is only a tad dearer than the 300 f/2.8 and is exactly the sort of price I would have expected for a non DO version anyway, it won't be and can't be much cheaper than a 300 f/2.8. most people expected the mk II DO to be $10K, so the pricing was a actually quite good IMO.

Having said that Tamron will offer something much cheaper than Canon at any FL, but I'm more interested in them offering FE versions of these lenses, because Sony certainly will take years and ask 2x the price

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Re: Patent: Tamron 300mm f/2.8, 400mm f/4, 500mm f/4
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2018, 01:36:50 AM »

Plainsman

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Re: Patent: Tamron 300mm f/2.8, 400mm f/4, 500mm f/4
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2018, 11:24:04 AM »
....made in China very probably so QC suspect
...so better to purchase a used Canon equivalent for the same price

I find it hard to make build and pricing judgements on something that may or may not come to fruition

I agree!

The day before Tamron came out with the 150-600, if you had predicted that lens for under $1000 people would have laughed at you. It arrived and sold out for half of a year, and then along came Sigma with another two..... Now they have the G2 version at almost L quality and with a dock for software updates for $1400. It is a very fine lens with a quality build.

If they make a prime of a similar build, it will be a very sharp lens and once again, probably sell out for a half year until production can catch up....

They surprised us once, they can do it again.

"..G2 version almost L quality.."

that's a plain daft statement
which Canon L lens are you comparing it with?
Canon AF, IS will always beat a Tamron and Canon L lenses have first class QC and build quality
Now most reviewers rate the G2 as slightly better than the G1
I had a G1 once and it was poor - much sharper on one side than the other due to optical alignment problem but it passed Tamron quality control in China.

RGF

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Re: Patent: Tamron 300mm f/2.8, 400mm f/4, 500mm f/4
« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2018, 12:28:54 PM »

it'll retain value much more over time.


Wonder how true this is.  Not doubting the truth, just much better does Canon (or Nikon) glass hold their value than good 3rd party glass (excluding of course, Zeiss)

I spent the last two years buying and selling cameras and lenses, using the arbitrage profits accrued to pay for the 500. In the course of that, I have noticed that the Canon lenses retain value for longer. That, in part, is due to much larger discounting on the 3rd parties hurting the aftermarket. There are other reasons. With Sigma still up at its launch price, it's I DON'T believe it's a good candidate for value retention.

thanks

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Re: Patent: Tamron 300mm f/2.8, 400mm f/4, 500mm f/4
« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2018, 12:28:54 PM »