June 22, 2018, 09:14:47 PM

Author Topic: Canon Inc. Boss Wants to See More Innovation  (Read 21572 times)

Mikehit

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Re: Canon Inc. Boss Wants to See More Innovation
« Reply #90 on: February 15, 2018, 03:39:54 PM »


I am leaving this hopeless discussion. Have a nice day.

You ask a question - a genuine and very interesting question.
In that question you posit an idea and ask if that is correct.
Somewhere along the line that idea turns in your mind from an idea to a fact
People disagree with that 'fact' and refuse to agree with you
So you call the discussion hopeless

Interesting.

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Re: Canon Inc. Boss Wants to See More Innovation
« Reply #90 on: February 15, 2018, 03:39:54 PM »

privatebydesign

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Re: Canon Inc. Boss Wants to See More Innovation
« Reply #91 on: February 15, 2018, 03:44:57 PM »
For anybody actually interested in understanding this stuff then I always link to this article.

http://www.josephjamesphotography.com/equivalence/

It explains everything we see when we use different sensors.
Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon Inc. Boss Wants to See More Innovation
« Reply #92 on: February 15, 2018, 03:54:39 PM »
For anybody actually interested in understanding this stuff then I always link to this article.

http://www.josephjamesphotography.com/equivalence/

It explains everything we see when we use different sensors.

Indeed, it's an excellent reference.

From it:

Quote
Given four cameras, one with...
  • ...an mFT (4/3) sensor,
  • ...another with a 1.6x sensor,
  • ...another with a 1.5x sensor,
  • ...and another with a FF sensor...
...and...
  • ...a photo of a scene from the same position with the same focal point and the same settings (e.g. 25mm f/1.4 1/200 ISO 400) with all cameras,
  • ...the photos cropped to the same framing as the photo from the mFT (4/3) camera,
  • ...and the photos are displayed at the same size...
...then the resulting photos will be Equivalent. In addition, if...
  • ...all the sensors are equally efficient, then all the photos will also have the same noise,
  • ...the pixels are all the same size, the AA filter the same strength, and the lens is the same sharpness, then all the photos will also have the same detail,
  • ...the exact same lens is used and the sensors are of the exact same design with the exact same size pixels, AA filter, CFA, and processing...
...then the photos will not merely be Equivalent, but be identical.

Which was my point:

Consider...if you capture an image with a FF and an APS-C camera at the same focal length, aperture, ISO setting, and subject distance, then crop the FF image so it matches the FoV of the APS-C camera (and output both to the same size, but since the sensor areas are equal, that doesn't matter in this case), you'll get two images that are equivalent – same framing, DoF, noise, brightness, etc.  They should be the same – they represent the same physical sensor area being sampled.
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Don Haines

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Re: Canon Inc. Boss Wants to See More Innovation
« Reply #93 on: February 15, 2018, 04:03:41 PM »
For anybody actually interested in understanding this stuff then I always link to this article.

http://www.josephjamesphotography.com/equivalence/

It explains everything we see when we use different sensors.

Indeed, it's an excellent reference.

From it:

Quote
Given four cameras, one with...
  • ...an mFT (4/3) sensor,
  • ...another with a 1.6x sensor,
  • ...another with a 1.5x sensor,
  • ...and another with a FF sensor...
...and...
  • ...a photo of a scene from the same position with the same focal point and the same settings (e.g. 25mm f/1.4 1/200 ISO 400) with all cameras,
  • ...the photos cropped to the same framing as the photo from the mFT (4/3) camera,
  • ...and the photos are displayed at the same size...
...then the resulting photos will be Equivalent. In addition, if...
  • ...all the sensors are equally efficient, then all the photos will also have the same noise,
  • ...the pixels are all the same size, the AA filter the same strength, and the lens is the same sharpness, then all the photos will also have the same detail,
  • ...the exact same lens is used and the sensors are of the exact same design with the exact same size pixels, AA filter, CFA, and processing...
...then the photos will not merely be Equivalent, but be identical.

Which was my point:

Consider...if you capture an image with a FF and an APS-C camera at the same focal length, aperture, ISO setting, and subject distance, then crop the FF image so it matches the FoV of the APS-C camera (and output both to the same size, but since the sensor areas are equal, that doesn't matter in this case), you'll get two images that are equivalent – same framing, DoF, noise, brightness, etc.  They should be the same – they represent the same physical sensor area being sampled.
No.

You are wrong.

I use magic lenses that change brightness, fstop, and focal length when I move them between crop and FF cameras.
The best camera is the one in your hands

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon Inc. Boss Wants to See More Innovation
« Reply #94 on: February 15, 2018, 04:08:49 PM »
I bet those lenses are ideal for taking pictures of rainbow-pooping unicorns!

 ;D
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Don Haines

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Re: Canon Inc. Boss Wants to See More Innovation
« Reply #95 on: February 15, 2018, 04:24:38 PM »
I bet those lenses are ideal for taking pictures of rainbow-pooping unicorns!

 ;D

No, if I am going to take pictures of a magical imaginary creature, I use Sony.
The best camera is the one in your hands

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon Inc. Boss Wants to See More Innovation
« Reply #96 on: February 15, 2018, 04:29:13 PM »
How DRoll.   ;)
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Re: Canon Inc. Boss Wants to See More Innovation
« Reply #96 on: February 15, 2018, 04:29:13 PM »

3kramd5

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Re: Canon Inc. Boss Wants to See More Innovation
« Reply #97 on: February 15, 2018, 06:06:16 PM »
I tried a little more to understand the input (had to go to CIPA rather than ISO) which can either be measured focal plane exposure or measured scene luminance. My assumption was that the test chart was shot to fill the camera frame, but that doesn’t appear to be the case. In the test setup the camera is to be placed or zoomed to take up the full area within targets, but the whole test area need not fill the camera FOV. It stands to reason then that it is evaluated at the pixel level, as neuroanatomist suggested, not based on the total light gathering area being used.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 06:12:46 PM by 3kramd5 »

Jack Douglas

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Re: Canon Inc. Boss Wants to See More Innovation
« Reply #98 on: February 15, 2018, 06:47:20 PM »
I read CR for the humour.  This thread qualifies and to boot I got some good reference articles.  Thanks guys.

Jack
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RGF

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Re: Canon Inc. Boss Wants to See More Innovation
« Reply #99 on: March 01, 2018, 11:51:44 PM »
It seems to me that since the problems with the 1D M3 Canon has become much more conservative.  Too bad.  Their cutting edge products, 5Ds/R, are tepid.  It seems they are afraid to push the envelop for fear of what?  Eating their own lunch, someone is going to eat it, they don't, Nikon or Sony will?  Of failing and having egg on their faces.  They will need to handle the problems than they did with 1D3.

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Re: Canon Inc. Boss Wants to See More Innovation
« Reply #99 on: March 01, 2018, 11:51:44 PM »