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Author Topic: High MP Full Frame "Crop"  (Read 2393 times)

Terry Rogers

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High MP Full Frame "Crop"
« on: February 16, 2012, 02:49:43 AM »
So I was thinking about the new Nikon D800 and perhaps Canon's response to it. While many of us covet (and enjoy) full frame benefits, there are a few drawbacks compared to crop sensors. Most notably for wildlife and bird photographers who take advantage of the pixel density and crop factor crop sensors afford. Getting your 500mm monster reach as far as an 800mm goliath because of the crop saves a small fortune and work lugging it around by pairing it to a 7D. In this realm, the crops take an advantage.

However, with an ultra high density sensor like on the D800, one could crop in significantly more and achieve the equivalent "reach" afforded by a crop sensor without a loss in quality as the remaining pixels will most likely be more than enough for most purposes.

However, my understanding is the processors and memory have a hard time moving 36mp images quick enough so fps is reduced and I suspect the buffer would fill quickly. However, if the camera were to only use the middle portion of the sensor, effectively turning it into a crop camera, the MP count would be reduced and file sizes would be significanly smaller. If this is done (while still shooting raw), could the fps cound be significantly boosted for say BIF shoots or other situations where maximum reach is needed WHILE good fps performance is also needed?

Who knows, maybe there will be a 5DX 45mp monster. If so, and it got f8 autofocus, maybe it would become the go to camera for bird photography.

Anyways, just a though.

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High MP Full Frame "Crop"
« on: February 16, 2012, 02:49:43 AM »

D.Sim

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Re: High MP Full Frame "Crop"
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2012, 04:15:04 AM »
So I was thinking about the new Nikon D800 and perhaps Canon's response to it. While many of us covet (and enjoy) full frame benefits, there are a few drawbacks compared to crop sensors. Most notably for wildlife and bird photographers who take advantage of the pixel density and crop factor crop sensors afford. Getting your 500mm monster reach as far as an 800mm goliath because of the crop saves a small fortune and work lugging it around by pairing it to a 7D. In this realm, the crops take an advantage.

However, with an ultra high density sensor like on the D800, one could crop in significantly more and achieve the equivalent "reach" afforded by a crop sensor without a loss in quality as the remaining pixels will most likely be more than enough for most purposes.

However, my understanding is the processors and memory have a hard time moving 36mp images quick enough so fps is reduced and I suspect the buffer would fill quickly. However, if the camera were to only use the middle portion of the sensor, effectively turning it into a crop camera, the MP count would be reduced and file sizes would be significanly smaller. If this is done (while still shooting raw), could the fps cound be significantly boosted for say BIF shoots or other situations where maximum reach is needed WHILE good fps performance is also needed?

Who knows, maybe there will be a 5DX 45mp monster. If so, and it got f8 autofocus, maybe it would become the go to camera for bird photography.

Anyways, just a though.

Cheers

Personally, I've always thought that if Canon (or someone) could come up with a system to consolidate pixels (IE, a a square of 2x2 pixels reads as one larger pixel) to "crop", effectively turning a high Megapix sensor into a smaller one with "larger" pixel size, they could basically have a high mp/high iso performer, instead of just manually cropping and reading from the centre. Personally that has no effect - you can just take the larger picture and just crop it in post - its essentially the same thing, but with far more control.

Then again, I'm an accountant, not an engineer, and have no idea if it could work at all, or if it would actually backfire.


Also, f8 on this won't happen. Canon have always reserved that for their 1 Series bodies.


*waits to get flayed for his suggestion by the more knowledgeable posters*
« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 04:22:28 AM by D.Sim »

neuroanatomist

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Re: High MP Full Frame "Crop"
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2012, 05:43:16 AM »
However, my understanding is the processors and memory have a hard time moving 36mp images quick enough so fps is reduced and I suspect the buffer would fill quickly. However, if the camera were to only use the middle portion of the sensor, effectively turning it into a crop camera, the MP count would be reduced and file sizes would be significanly smaller.

Yep - that's exactly what the D800 does, and other Nikon cameras before (although with far fewer MP to work with).  It's a 4 fps camera, but in 'DX-mode' (aka crop mode) it shoots 6 fps (but you need the battery grip to unlock that higher frame rate). 
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Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: High MP Full Frame "Crop"
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2012, 11:56:39 AM »
Canon would prefer that you get a 600 or 800mm lens :)

I do not anticipate having that problem soon with Canon. 

One of the things to consider with the more dense pixels is the need for higher shutter speeds.  The 7D produces much sharper images when you double the standard rule of thumb shutter speed and use a really high speed for moving subjects.  It only tales a small amount of movement to blur accross the smaller pixels.

I can only begin to imagine the pain of many Nikon Shooters who go from 12 to 36 mp and try to use the same shutter speeds that they have been using.  It happened for 7D users when it first came out, and you still here complaints that images are not sharp.

ejenner

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Re: High MP Full Frame "Crop"
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2012, 12:01:36 PM »
I can only begin to imagine the pain of many Nikon Shooters who go from 12 to 36 mp and try to use the same shutter speeds that they have been using.  It happened for 7D users when it first came out, and you still here complaints that images are not sharp.

I had not thought of that, good point.  I wonder if Nikon will do a good enough job of educating their users based on the 7D experience.  If not, the D800 could get some unfairly unfavorable reviews.

I assume the D800E will be even more susceptible to this.

awinphoto

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Re: High MP Full Frame "Crop"
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2012, 12:21:40 PM »
However, my understanding is the processors and memory have a hard time moving 36mp images quick enough so fps is reduced and I suspect the buffer would fill quickly. However, if the camera were to only use the middle portion of the sensor, effectively turning it into a crop camera, the MP count would be reduced and file sizes would be significanly smaller.

Yep - that's exactly what the D800 does, and other Nikon cameras before (although with far fewer MP to work with).  It's a 4 fps camera, but in 'DX-mode' (aka crop mode) it shoots 6 fps (but you need the battery grip to unlock that higher frame rate).

But if that's what it does, can it use the crop only lenses with a smaller image circle?  Or is that a problem for nikon as it would be a problem with ef-s lenses?
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TexPhoto

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Re: High MP Full Frame "Crop"
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2012, 01:07:27 PM »

But if that's what it does, can it use the crop only lenses with a smaller image circle?  Or is that a problem for nikon as it would be a problem with ef-s lenses?

Yes, Nikon FF cameras can take their DX lenses and then default to "DX" mode.  The 12MP camera then take a 5.5MP or so photo.  Or when using FF lens, you can choose the DX mode for faster frames.

Canon has not done this and indeed EF-S lenses canon be used on FF cameras.

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Re: High MP Full Frame "Crop"
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2012, 01:07:27 PM »