January 22, 2018, 11:51:05 AM

Author Topic: Weather Sealing Torture Test: Canon, Olympus, Nikon Pass.. Sony?  (Read 9210 times)

Talys

  • EOS 5D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 661
  • Canon 6DII
Re: Weather Sealing Torture Test: Canon, Olympus, Nikon Pass.. Sony?
« Reply #75 on: January 10, 2018, 02:32:06 PM »
I guess it takes some time before the corrosion damage kicks in...
did you read the original article? The Sony even returned to working order after drying out, I think people here didn't read and are assuming it was dead.

Did you read Larsskv's post?  I think you didn't and are assuming the camera that started working again won't stop working at some point in the future as a direct but delayed result of the water ingress.

In case you aren't aware, that's a common occurrence with water ingress into electronics.  When the water is present, contacts are short-circuited and the device doesn't work.  Then, once the water has evaporated, the device resumes normal function.  However, unless the water was lab-grade ultra pure (the stuff coming from a sprinkler or falling from the sky isn't), the water exposure and the trace salts left behind after it evaporates (or not trace, in the case of salt water exposure) begin the process of corrosion, which progresses inexorably over a period of weeks and months.  When the corrosion becomes severe enough, the device fails again...that time, permanently.

Corrosion to the camera parts, plus, I'd be too worried about something catastrophic happening internally within the lithium battery.  It wasn't just a couple of drops of water that got into the battery chamber.

I don't know if it's possible that corrosion inside the battery could lead to something horrible, but I'd rather not find out. 

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Weather Sealing Torture Test: Canon, Olympus, Nikon Pass.. Sony?
« Reply #75 on: January 10, 2018, 02:32:06 PM »

woodman411

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 27
Re: Weather Sealing Torture Test: Canon, Olympus, Nikon Pass.. Sony?
« Reply #76 on: January 10, 2018, 05:53:00 PM »

This is worrisome for the A7rIII, a camera that I have been considering.
These test results are a persuasive argument in favor of the 5D4.
Time to rethink ... again .    :o

A friend of mine just returned from 2 weeks in Thailand with his Sony a7r2 and reported no problems in the heat, humidity and sudden rainstorms there. He said the camera was drenched a few times.

I guess it takes some time before the corrosion damage kicks in...

did you read the original article? The Sony even returned to working order after drying out, I think people here didn't read and are assuming it was dead. I think the issue with the test was having the cameras set totally level so water pooled on the top case. Of course its unfortunate water got in but highly unlikely in real life situations to be using the camera in a downpour like that perfectly level. Used handheld water wouldn't have pooled like that. The author says in the conclusion and comments he still fully recommends it as one of the best cameras you can buy. I shoot Sony but not in conditions like that, so I choose the best tool for my job - and that requires high dynamic range.

There's something sad about a Sony user, posting and defending Sony, in a Canon forum. These defenders are not enlightening anyone, they are just highlighting their insecurities (love how dynamic range is mentioned in a thread about weather sealing, sigh).
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 05:57:03 PM by woodman411 »

ahsanford

  • Canon EF 600mm f/4L IS II
  • **********
  • Posts: 6110
  • USM > STM
Re: Weather Sealing Torture Test: Canon, Olympus, Nikon Pass.. Sony?
« Reply #77 on: January 10, 2018, 06:13:10 PM »
There's something sad about a Sony user, posting and defending Sony, in a Canon forum...

I pump the partisan brakes on these things -- this 'test' (or whatever you want to call it) is simply one of many pieces of information we have to peg how far Sony has / has not come by 2018.

I think some of us (myself to some degree) tend to think of Sony as this fanboy-pleasing machine that just spits out the core high-level horsepower spec stuff that people first look to when assessing value in a camera system.  And in fairness to them, Sony is pretty damn good at either nailing a deliverable (sensors of course, but throughput of late as well) or steadily making Borg-like constant improvements in other areas (AF, third party lens use with AF, feature-based upgrades like IBIS, 4K, etc.).  Sony are not idiots, and in some areas what they deliver is pretty damn impressive. 

But they also can lay an egg in performance area Canon and Nikon may have put to bed a decade ago.  In a nutshell, that is the blessing and curse that is Sony.

Why this video -- and the premise of potentially less-than-great weathersealing -- is so interesting is that it underscores a long-held belief that if it doesn't make the front-page headlines of the spec sheet, Sony isn't investing much to improve it, i.e. if it's not something big like FPS, MP, pure sensor quality, a bullet point spec on the B&H product listing (IBIS, # AF points, Eye AF, 4K, etc.), Sony might not be investing as much effort / time / cost as they should there.

Consider:  there is no top-15 spec bullet point list that ever speaks to:

  • How it feels in your hands from a long day of shooting with fast glass
  • How the controls are / are not thoughtfully laid out
  • How reliable and well-serviced the product is (shutter durability ratings are only a drop in the bucket here)
  • ...add any plurality of things you care about here...

So I wouldn't pile on a Sony person defending their product -- I'm just absorbing what these rigs can / can't do and make informed purchasing decisions.  My take home from this is that Sony's sealing may be a weak link, that's all.  (I'll keep that in the back of mind if Canon makes us wait another 1-2 years for FF mirrorless and a hot new Sony arrives -- if we only see the Pros of what a hot new product offers, the Cons we probably should have seen coming will likely bite us in the a--.)

- A
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 01:15:58 AM by ahsanford »

Don Haines

  • Canon EF 600mm f/4L IS II
  • **********
  • Posts: 6426
  • posting cat pictures on the internet since 1986
Re: Weather Sealing Torture Test: Canon, Olympus, Nikon Pass.. Sony?
« Reply #78 on: January 10, 2018, 06:44:43 PM »

So I wouldn't pile on a Sony person defending their product -- I'm just absorbing what these rigs can / can't do and make informed purchasing decisions.  My take home from this is that Sony's sealing may be a weak link, that's all.  (I'll keep that in the back of mind if Canon makes us wait another 1-2 years for FF mirrorless and a hot new Sony arrives -- if we only see the Pros of what a hot new product offers, the Cons we probably should have seen coming will likely bite us in the a--.)

I agree. Every product has it's plusses and it has it's minuses. Some things are easy to quantify (such as Mpixels or FPS) and reporting on them is simple, and they quickly find their way to the top of a review. Other items, such as "feel" and "user interface" are more nebulous in nature and there are (rightly) differences of opinion as to the value or impact of them, and as a result, we are less likely to see it mentioned in a review.

Quite often, reviews are done with sample cameras from the manufacturer.... a camera that has to be returned to the manufacturer..... a camera that has to be returned IN A WORKING CONDITION to the manufacturer.... and this means that your typical reviewer is not going to risk destroying that camera in order to do a review.

For many of us, we will never use our cameras under such conditions so it really does not matter what the sealing is. For others of us, we are shooting in the rain because our job demands it... and in the winter our cameras go through severe thermal swings. For those people, sealing and "toughness" are of paramount importance and we select our gear accordingly.

BTW, I spent about 90 minutes outside today with the work 7D and 70-200F4 in a freezing rain storm. There was ice caked on the top of it when I was done. It survived..... again.....
The best camera is the one in your hands

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • ************
  • Posts: 22019
Re: Weather Sealing Torture Test: Canon, Olympus, Nikon Pass.. Sony?
« Reply #79 on: January 10, 2018, 07:08:06 PM »
For others of us, we are shooting in the rain because our job demands it... and in the winter our cameras go through severe thermal swings. For those people, sealing and "toughness" are of paramount importance and we select our gear accordingly.

Or because we want to be out there.   ;)
EOS 1D X, EOS M2, lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

ecqns

  • EOS Rebel 300D
  • ***
  • Posts: 69
Re: Weather Sealing Torture Test: Canon, Olympus, Nikon Pass.. Sony?
« Reply #80 on: January 10, 2018, 10:06:36 PM »

There's something sad about a Sony user, posting and defending Sony, in a Canon forum. These defenders are not enlightening anyone, they are just highlighting their insecurities (love how dynamic range is mentioned in a thread about weather sealing, sigh).

This is like talking to foxnews online commenters sometimes.
I am here because I used to use Canon DSLRs but still use EF lenses (TS-Es). If Nikon comes out with a wider than 17mm TS-E I would check out a Nikon body b/c they have great DR like the Sonys. I use the best tool for what my job requires. It does not require shooting in a downpour but it does require high DR. I only jumped in this thread b/c I've used the Sonys' in misty conditions over the years and have not had an issue with water at all. The Sony mist test was flawed b/c it already took in water in the downpour test. So they should have tested them from light mist to heavy rain. I use my equipment as tools - if something was to get damaged, I'd just get it fixed and use the backup.

My first work cameras were a Pentax 67 and a Calumet view camera so that's where I'm coming from.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2018, 10:10:16 PM by ecqns »

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • ************
  • Posts: 22019
Re: Weather Sealing Torture Test: Canon, Olympus, Nikon Pass.. Sony?
« Reply #81 on: January 10, 2018, 11:03:22 PM »
I use the best tool for what my job requires. It does not require shooting in a downpour but it does require high DR. 

So, 13.5 stops of DR and you keep your job, but 12.6 stops of DR and you're fired.  Makes sense.


The Sony mist test was flawed b/c it already took in water in the downpour test. So they should have tested them from light mist to heavy rain.

Exactly.  Because in the real world, rain always follows mist, but mist never follows rain.  That makes even more sense!
EOS 1D X, EOS M2, lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Weather Sealing Torture Test: Canon, Olympus, Nikon Pass.. Sony?
« Reply #81 on: January 10, 2018, 11:03:22 PM »

woodman411

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 27
Re: Weather Sealing Torture Test: Canon, Olympus, Nikon Pass.. Sony?
« Reply #82 on: January 11, 2018, 12:09:33 AM »

There's something sad about a Sony user, posting and defending Sony, in a Canon forum. These defenders are not enlightening anyone, they are just highlighting their insecurities (love how dynamic range is mentioned in a thread about weather sealing, sigh).

This is like talking to foxnews online commenters sometimes.
I am here because I used to use Canon DSLRs but still use EF lenses (TS-Es). If Nikon comes out with a wider than 17mm TS-E I would check out a Nikon body b/c they have great DR like the Sonys. I use the best tool for what my job requires. It does not require shooting in a downpour but it does require high DR. I only jumped in this thread b/c I've used the Sonys' in misty conditions over the years and have not had an issue with water at all. The Sony mist test was flawed b/c it already took in water in the downpour test. So they should have tested them from light mist to heavy rain. I use my equipment as tools - if something was to get damaged, I'd just get it fixed and use the backup.

My first work cameras were a Pentax 67 and a Calumet view camera so that's where I'm coming from.

This thread is about weather sealing. Not about dynamic range, not about Nikon, your work, Pentax, or Calumet. This is about insecurity expressed through these irrelevant details, mixed with a condescending tone ("I choose the best tool"), posted on a CANON forum, to do what? The thin veneer of enlightenment doesn't hide too well the agenda that DPR/Rishi and their followers are pushing.

Don Haines

  • Canon EF 600mm f/4L IS II
  • **********
  • Posts: 6426
  • posting cat pictures on the internet since 1986
Re: Weather Sealing Torture Test: Canon, Olympus, Nikon Pass.. Sony?
« Reply #83 on: January 11, 2018, 07:27:23 AM »
I use my equipment as tools - if something was to get damaged, I'd just get it fixed and use the backup.


I also use my equipment as tools, but prefer to get the tool that can survive the job..... but then again, we obviously have different requirements......
The best camera is the one in your hands

Don Haines

  • Canon EF 600mm f/4L IS II
  • **********
  • Posts: 6426
  • posting cat pictures on the internet since 1986
Re: Weather Sealing Torture Test: Canon, Olympus, Nikon Pass.. Sony?
« Reply #84 on: January 11, 2018, 07:43:21 AM »
Did you read Larsskv's post?  I think you didn't and are assuming the camera that started working again won't stop working at some point in the future as a direct but delayed result of the water ingress.

In case you aren't aware, that's a common occurrence with water ingress into electronics.  When the water is present, contacts are short-circuited and the device doesn't work.  Then, once the water has evaporated, the device resumes normal function.  However, unless the water was lab-grade ultra pure (the stuff coming from a sprinkler or falling from the sky isn't), the water exposure and the trace salts left behind after it evaporates (or not trace, in the case of salt water exposure) begin the process of corrosion, which progresses inexorably over a period of weeks and months.  When the corrosion becomes severe enough, the device fails again...that time, permanently.

We had a bunch of “sealed” satellite phones that we used in areas without cell coverage. The sealing was not good, they misted over from internal condensation and died. After drying out in the lab they came back to life, but within a year, they were all permanently dead.

Any camera which does not have the sealing to pass that shower test, is a fair weather toy.
The best camera is the one in your hands

Talys

  • EOS 5D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 661
  • Canon 6DII
Re: Weather Sealing Torture Test: Canon, Olympus, Nikon Pass.. Sony?
« Reply #85 on: January 12, 2018, 01:37:25 PM »
I use my equipment as tools - if something was to get damaged, I'd just get it fixed and use the backup.


I also use my equipment as tools, but prefer to get the tool that can survive the job..... but then again, we obviously have different requirements......

There's also a question of cost.  I guarantee that any one of the cameras tested that has failed due to internal water damage will not be cheap to fix.

Any camera which does not have the sealing to pass that shower test, is a fair weather toy.

I'm probably as fair weather as they come; I don't really like activities in the rain, and won't seek to do it for photography.  Any time I go to the lake or for a hike it will be on a nice day.  But sometimes it happens, even if 99% of my photography is indoors or on clear days.  On the odd time that I want to be out there, or that I simply just get caught out in the rain (it can change pretty quick where I live), I really don't want to worry about is whether my thousands-of-dollars gear will survive.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 01:42:45 PM by Talys »

Neil1000

  • PowerShot G7 X Mark II
  • **
  • Posts: 7
Re: Weather Sealing Torture Test: Canon, Olympus, Nikon Pass.. Sony?
« Reply #86 on: January 12, 2018, 02:36:01 PM »
 

Throughout my Canon days I kept a $6 pair of Optech rainsleeves in my bag - they cope with tropical rain.  I have them available for my Sony a7r3 should the need arise.


dak723

  • EOS 5D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 665
Re: Weather Sealing Torture Test: Canon, Olympus, Nikon Pass.. Sony?
« Reply #87 on: January 14, 2018, 01:24:30 PM »
I use my equipment as tools - if something was to get damaged, I'd just get it fixed and use the backup.


I also use my equipment as tools, but prefer to get the tool that can survive the job..... but then again, we obviously have different requirements......

There's also a question of cost.  I guarantee that any one of the cameras tested that has failed due to internal water damage will not be cheap to fix.

Any camera which does not have the sealing to pass that shower test, is a fair weather toy.

I'm probably as fair weather as they come; I don't really like activities in the rain, and won't seek to do it for photography.  Any time I go to the lake or for a hike it will be on a nice day.  But sometimes it happens, even if 99% of my photography is indoors or on clear days.  On the odd time that I want to be out there, or that I simply just get caught out in the rain (it can change pretty quick where I live), I really don't want to worry about is whether my thousands-of-dollars gear will survive.

Quite frankly, if Sony paid so little attention to the weather sealing, I would be very apprehensive as to the build quality of everything else. 

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Weather Sealing Torture Test: Canon, Olympus, Nikon Pass.. Sony?
« Reply #87 on: January 14, 2018, 01:24:30 PM »

Larsskv

  • EOS 7D Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 506
  • Enthusiast with Canon related GAS
Re: Weather Sealing Torture Test: Canon, Olympus, Nikon Pass.. Sony?
« Reply #88 on: January 14, 2018, 01:31:51 PM »
The irony here is Sony’s marketing. On the front page on Sony.coms page of the A7RIII, they provide this statement:

“Refine your sense of reality with α7R III — an ideal partner offering superior speed, high-resolution imaging, pro-class operability, and reliable performance even under harsh conditions.”

https://www.sony.com/electronics/interchangeable-lens-cameras/ilce-7rm3

They truly do live up to their marketing claims...  ::)

Don Haines

  • Canon EF 600mm f/4L IS II
  • **********
  • Posts: 6426
  • posting cat pictures on the internet since 1986
Re: Weather Sealing Torture Test: Canon, Olympus, Nikon Pass.. Sony?
« Reply #89 on: January 14, 2018, 03:10:33 PM »
 

Throughout my Canon days I kept a $6 pair of Optech rainsleeves in my bag - they cope with tropical rain.  I have them available for my Sony a7r3 should the need arise.

I carry an umbrella on "iffy" days... Even though I know my gear is well sealed, it makes me feel better.....
The best camera is the one in your hands

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Weather Sealing Torture Test: Canon, Olympus, Nikon Pass.. Sony?
« Reply #89 on: January 14, 2018, 03:10:33 PM »