February 21, 2018, 01:10:11 AM

Author Topic: The Canon EOS 90D is Coming Later in 2018 [CR2]  (Read 11213 times)

symmar22

  • EOS Rebel T7i
  • ****
  • Posts: 105
Re: The Canon EOS 90D is Coming Later in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2018, 03:57:34 PM »
Any word if he 90D is going to kickoff a new resolution standard? The 24MP DPAF seems to be universally implemented across the APS-C lineup currently. Maybe the 90D will be 37.5MP (7,500 x 5,000)?
That's too much for APS-C format, I won't mind if resolution stays 24MP +/-2MP.
The largest aperture that is not diffraction limited yet is f/8 for an 18 mp APS-C format camera and f/14 for an FF camera with the same resolution. Though f/11 for APS-C and f/22 for FF can be used without losing too much detail the more MP you have the lower the DLA will be. In my opinion there's no use of having a 24+ MP sensor until it will be able to decrease the diffraction effect somehow.

Except in real life it doesn't matter that much. As an architecture and interior photographer, I shoot most of my subject with wide angles, stopped down in the f14-f22 range, on a 5Dsr Yes it is a bit softer at f22, but when I need everything in focus, that's the way to go. None of my clients ever complained.

 Diffraction is very overstated by a lot of people. That you want to optimize sharpness for some pictures is OK, but when you need depth of field there is no choice. My experience is that sharpness decreases significantly only after f22 for it to be a real concern. I prefer the extra resolution of a denser sensor than to fear diffraction. Remove the useless low pass filter and you save "1 stop" of diffraction.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: The Canon EOS 90D is Coming Later in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2018, 03:57:34 PM »

crashpc

  • EOS 80D
  • ****
  • Posts: 288
Re: The Canon EOS 90D is Coming Later in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2018, 04:19:58 PM »
If there is the moire visible in the image, than the lens diffraction is not that bad anyway. People also need process the mage in a ways that might take some more resolution away. Like rotating and stuff. For that reason, we need oversampled image, to actually rely only on the lens capabilities and diffraction, not on the sensor shortcomings. Sensor resolution and storage is relatively cheap. Not so with good glass. That way it would be very welcomed to have at least 32Mpx APS-C sensor, if not more, for landscapes and macros and birding...

Quackator

  • EOS M5
  • ****
  • Posts: 166
Re: The Canon EOS 90D is Coming Later in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2018, 05:39:55 PM »
What if all those new rebels are mirrorless and Canon enters the mirrorless market full swing?

Don Haines

  • Canon EF 600mm f/4L IS II
  • **********
  • Posts: 6534
  • posting cat pictures on the internet since 1986
Re: The Canon EOS 90D is Coming Later in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2018, 06:17:31 PM »
Any word if he 90D is going to kickoff a new resolution standard? The 24MP DPAF seems to be universally implemented across the APS-C lineup currently. Maybe the 90D will be 37.5MP (7,500 x 5,000)?
That's too much for APS-C format, I won't mind if resolution stays 24MP +/-2MP.
The largest aperture that is not diffraction limited yet is f/8 for an 18 mp APS-C format camera and f/14 for an FF camera with the same resolution. Though f/11 for APS-C and f/22 for FF can be used without losing too much detail the more MP you have the lower the DLA will be. In my opinion there's no use of having a 24+ MP sensor until it will be able to decrease the diffraction effect somehow.

Except in real life it doesn't matter that much. As an architecture and interior photographer, I shoot most of my subject with wide angles, stopped down in the f14-f22 range, on a 5Dsr Yes it is a bit softer at f22, but when I need everything in focus, that's the way to go. None of my clients ever complained.

 Diffraction is very overstated by a lot of people. That you want to optimize sharpness for some pictures is OK, but when you need depth of field there is no choice. My experience is that sharpness decreases significantly only after f22 for it to be a real concern. I prefer the extra resolution of a denser sensor than to fear diffraction. Remove the useless low pass filter and you save "1 stop" of diffraction.

+1
The best camera is the one in your hands

James Larsen

  • EOS Rebel 300D
  • ***
  • Posts: 64
Re: The Canon EOS 90D is Coming Later in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2018, 06:34:06 PM »
If there isn't any 4k I'd be very disappointed.

Don Haines

  • Canon EF 600mm f/4L IS II
  • **********
  • Posts: 6534
  • posting cat pictures on the internet since 1986
Re: The Canon EOS 90D is Coming Later in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2018, 06:41:48 PM »
I really don’t expect to see much of an improvement over the 80D.

4K... of course....

Perhaps 2 more megapixels, a slightly better burst rate, hopefully a faster SD interface..... which becomes an almost unlimited buffer.... and some improvements to the WiFi interface.....

Other than that, we are approaching the limits of the current technology......
The best camera is the one in your hands

Talys

  • EOS 5DS R
  • ******
  • Posts: 898
  • Canon 6DII
Re: The Canon EOS 90D is Coming Later in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2018, 06:57:57 PM »
I love my 80D -- it's easily my favorite camera.  It literally has everything I want from a camera for most purposes, including size, EXCEPT that the sensor has too much noise for my taste on most photos shot at higher ISOs.

The one thing that I'm looking for that would make me buy this is visibly better higher ISO performance.  If it can be as clean as a 6DII at least at ISO 800, I'll seriously consider it.  If it's as clean at 1200-1600, I'll buy it in an instant.  Maybe this will happen with a new sensor; don't know.

There are other obvious things from the 77D and 6D2's featureset that will no doubt be brought over... Bluetooth and the ability to remember several wirelessly tethered devices, for example.  I would expect usual stuff like minor FPS bump, some resolution bump, who knows, maybe some DR bumpage to make that crowd happy.

If the 90D records 4k, that would make a lot of people very happy, I suppose, and it has the EFS 18-135 nano, which is a good pairing for APSC video.

A "new generation of DPAF" sounds cool, though I almost never use it on my 80D.

One thing, though: if 7DIII doesn't come out in 2018, 90D this would further diminish 7D sales until its release. 

canon rumors FORUM

Re: The Canon EOS 90D is Coming Later in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2018, 06:57:57 PM »

slclick

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • ********
  • Posts: 2293
  • Waiting for the right 85 & 135
Re: The Canon EOS 90D is Coming Later in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2018, 08:48:41 PM »
I guess they will have a little wriggle room with 91D, 92D
The might also go back to 10M when its mirrorless.
Im not sure how dense they can make the MPs on APS-C.
I’m not sure more is desirable. I’d prefer better quality.
I thought the 7D2 and 5DSR overdid it for the technology of it the time.
I meet very few people nowadays with xxD cameras.
A lot of people I know jump to full frame from xxxD.
Maybe it’s more successful and in other countries.
I personally don’t see the point of the range these days.
But I guess others do.

I know quite a few folks who made the jump from the XXD to the 6D series. I also know a great deal more who have the 50D and 60D who love them (esp the 50) The 50D seems to have a special place in many peoples hearts. I myself went from Rebel to 7D to 5D.
soul stealing magic boxes and black tubes

Tremotino

  • PowerShot G7 X Mark II
  • **
  • Posts: 6
Re: The Canon EOS 90D is Coming Later in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2018, 09:54:54 PM »
What if all those new rebels are mirrorless and Canon enters the mirrorless market full swing?

The same idea came to my mind.
May it be a mirrorless, a hybrid and a classic rebel.

The 90d I think will have better sensor technology mainly because of the improved dpaf, which I really love on my 70d, smooth, precise and never fails.

9VIII

  • EOS-1D X Mark II
  • *******
  • Posts: 1736
Re: The Canon EOS 90D is Coming Later in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2018, 01:06:34 AM »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Canon_EOS_digital_cameras
If you look at the release cycle of Canon's current products there are five bodies that should get a replacement in 2019, and one that would land in late 2018.

1200D lasted 2.25 years, 1300D should be replaced in Q3 2018.
750D and 760D lasted 2 years, 800D and 77D should be replaced in Q2 2019
70D lasted 2.75 years, 80D should be replaced in Q1 2019.
7D lasted 5 years, 7D MkII should be replaced in Q4 2019
5D MkIII lasted 4.5 years, 5DS should be replaced in Q4 2019

(I missed the EOS M6 at a 2.25 year cycle should be replaced Q3 2019, and while the M5 is the first in its category 3 years is probably the best trend to go by, which would put it's replacement in Q4 2019.)

It sounds like some are coming sooner but there should be a lot of new products coming out of Canon in the next two years.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 01:13:20 AM by 9VIII »

9VIII

  • EOS-1D X Mark II
  • *******
  • Posts: 1736
Re: The Canon EOS 90D is Coming Later in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2018, 01:26:42 AM »
Ok maybe it's easier to put it the other way around, only four out of Canon's current thirteen lines of EOS bodies will go without replacement by the end of 2019.

(Three of those four remaining bodies being Full Frame, basically that means the entirety of Canon's APS-C production is getting revamped. The SL2 is the only current crop body that won't get replaced in the near future.)
« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 01:37:24 AM by 9VIII »

Talys

  • EOS 5DS R
  • ******
  • Posts: 898
  • Canon 6DII
Re: The Canon EOS 90D is Coming Later in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2018, 03:31:37 AM »
Yeah, there is no way that 7DII, 77D, 80D, and 5DS are all replaced in 2019 though.  It would be malpractice, since there are people who might buy 2 or more of those bodies, and dropping them all at the same time would kill that.

I'm interested in 7D3, 90D, and 5DSRII.  I won't buy all 3, but if they're spaced a year apart, I might buy two.

Do I get a 7D3 or a 90D?  That's easy; I'll probably be trilled with either, since I love my 80D.  So the answer is... whichever comes out first.

Do I get the 5DSRII?  If I get excited enough about it, and it hits the mark on the things that prevented me from seriously considering 5DSR... and if it's far enough away from my last camera body spend, because it's going to be a pricey luxury, that I know I don't really need.

Imagewerx

  • PowerShot SX60 HS
  • **
  • Posts: 4
  • EOS 80D
Re: The Canon EOS 90D is Coming Later in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2018, 03:45:50 AM »
A bit of an aside but where is Canon going with the naming scheme following the 90D?

15D,25D,35D etc etc......

canon rumors FORUM

Re: The Canon EOS 90D is Coming Later in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2018, 03:45:50 AM »

Imagewerx

  • PowerShot SX60 HS
  • **
  • Posts: 4
  • EOS 80D
Re: The Canon EOS 90D is Coming Later in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #28 on: January 25, 2018, 03:51:24 AM »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Canon_EOS_digital_cameras
If you look at the release cycle of Canon's current products there are five bodies that should get a replacement in 2019, and one that would land in late 2018.

1200D lasted 2.25 years, 1300D should be replaced in Q3 2018.
750D and 760D lasted 2 years, 800D and 77D should be replaced in Q2 2019
70D lasted 2.75 years, 80D should be replaced in Q1 2019.
7D lasted 5 years, 7D MkII should be replaced in Q4 2019
5D MkIII lasted 4.5 years, 5DS should be replaced in Q4 2019

(I missed the EOS M6 at a 2.25 year cycle should be replaced Q3 2019, and while the M5 is the first in its category 3 years is probably the best trend to go by, which would put it's replacement in Q4 2019.)

It sounds like some are coming sooner but there should be a lot of new products coming out of Canon in the next two years.

The replacement cycle gets longer and longer with each successive model range.

My first DSLR was an EOS 10D,and they already had release dates scheduled for the 20D,30D,40D and 50D,all roughly 18 months apart.It was after the the 50D  it started to get longer before the next model came out (or at least that's the way I remember it).

mistaspeedy

  • EOS M5
  • ****
  • Posts: 181
Re: The Canon EOS 90D is Coming Later in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #29 on: January 25, 2018, 06:47:48 AM »
The one thing that I'm looking for that would make me buy this is visibly better higher ISO performance.  If it can be as clean as a 6DII at least at ISO 800, I'll seriously consider it.  If it's as clean at 1200-1600, I'll buy it in an instant.  Maybe this will happen with a new sensor; don't know.

Unfortunately this is impossible. Even the best of the best APS-C sensors from Sony and Nikon cannot come close to a full frame sensor. Do not expect that much difference in APS-C sensor performance for at least another 10 years, maybe more... the difference is that big.

https://gyazo.com/f4b8b43e330014ad0088fda4982d499a
Here is a comparison between the 80D, Sony a6500 (best APS-C) and 6D mark II.

Here is another comparison...  Canon 10D from 2003 vs Sony a6500
https://gyazo.com/cea02d897a0ccfd5da2b1c6387b88e7d

It took 13 years in sensor technology to make up that gap... and the gap between the 80D and 6D mark II is the same.
Looking at the graphs... unless you want to shoot the Sony a6500 at really really high ISOs like 12800 to 51200, you can't get close to the 6D mark II with an APS-C sensor... but at that point the quality is severely degraded anyway.

Unfortunately that is the decision we are left with...  the only real upgrade path with a big difference in performance is full frame, and all the associated expenses with full frame glass.

Last but not least... a funny little comparison between the 1D mark II (from 2004) and the 80D & a6500.
https://gyazo.com/a557806e1be6739564cfc0491e368ec8
Purely from an image noise perspective... the 1D mark II (1.3x crop) from 2004 is damn close to the 80D.
Just goes to show how much of a big difference sensor size makes.

PS: The 80D obliterates the 1D mark II in many many other measurements like dynamic range, resolution etc, I'm not saying they are comparable in everything.
Canon 1D mark II, Canon 50mm F1.4, Tamron 28-75 F2.8

canon rumors FORUM

Re: The Canon EOS 90D is Coming Later in 2018 [CR2]
« Reply #29 on: January 25, 2018, 06:47:48 AM »