February 21, 2018, 06:44:47 AM

Author Topic: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]  (Read 12607 times)

wildwalker

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #90 on: February 12, 2018, 04:13:41 PM »
Finally some good news from Canon. The EOS M5 was a good camera but fell short of competitors offerings due to video functionality, lens lineup and DR. Competing in video knock another hurdle off the list. Add the same DR improvements in the 80D and 5DIV and that's another step closer. One huge issue for Canon is EF-M lineup. I'm not investing in anymore Canon lenses until I know where Canon are going. If they pick EF then it's fine, if they pick EF-M then I really need to see some solid glass before investing.

I'm pretty sure this will have the same 24Mpx sensor as the M5/M6. So don't expect any DR improvements. Remember, this body is 'rumoured' to sit between the M5/M6 and the M100. So don't expect it to Me_Me_Me the M5 in overall feature set.

As I have said before, I could be totally wrong, but a 4K enabled, increased DR M5 sounds like a pretty expensive bit of kit, and way outside of what the M50 is expected to be.

If the M50 is that good, then it's either going to be really expensive, or the rest of the M range is either going to have to come down in price, or be discontinued.

Here's hoping though :)

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #90 on: February 12, 2018, 04:13:41 PM »

The Fat Fish

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #91 on: February 12, 2018, 05:35:39 PM »

As I have said before, I could be totally wrong, but a 4K enabled, increased DR M5 sounds like a pretty expensive bit of kit, and way outside of what the M50 is expected to be.


I'd love to see Canon compete in terms of price vs features. Let's take the equivalent Sony and Fuji Cameras.

EOS M5:

DR - 12.4 EV
Video - (soft) 1080p
FPS - 7fps
Price - $930

Sony A6300:

DR - 13.7 EV
Video - 4K
FPS - 11fps
Price - $800

Fuji X-T20:

DR - 13.5 EV (roughly)
Video - 4K
FPS - 8-11fps
Price - $900

That's noticeably less of a camera for more money. This approach stretches across Canon's entire lineup but their mirrorless is where it's most clear because it has a far weaker lens lineup. I really like my 6D and would like to think I have a future with Canon but they really must do better.

I remain optimistic. They can't have another 6DII release and I think they now know this.

Sharlin

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #92 on: February 12, 2018, 05:41:16 PM »
I remain optimistic. They can't have another 6DII release and I think they now know this.

Evidence points to the 6D2 selling quite well and all the crying on forums being just a tiny blip on Canon's radar.

wildwalker

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #93 on: February 12, 2018, 06:34:19 PM »

As I have said before, I could be totally wrong, but a 4K enabled, increased DR M5 sounds like a pretty expensive bit of kit, and way outside of what the M50 is expected to be.


I'd love to see Canon compete in terms of price vs features. Let's take the equivalent Sony and Fuji Cameras.

EOS M5:

DR - 12.4 EV
Video - (soft) 1080p
FPS - 7fps
Price - $930

Sony A6300:

DR - 13.7 EV
Video - 4K
FPS - 11fps
Price - $800

Fuji X-T20:

DR - 13.5 EV (roughly)
Video - 4K
FPS - 8-11fps
Price - $900

That's noticeably less of a camera for more money. This approach stretches across Canon's entire lineup but their mirrorless is where it's most clear because it has a far weaker lens lineup. I really like my 6D and would like to think I have a future with Canon but they really must do better.

I remain optimistic. They can't have another 6DII release and I think they now know this.

Watch any review on the A6300 4K and the rolling shutter is laughable. I don't want to sound like a fanboy here, but I am looking at the A6300 myself as an alternative (along with the Panasonic TZ100) and all the reviews say the 4K is useless, unless its static shots on a tripod.

As video is not my focus, I don't care. But comparing specs is one thing, but real world use has shown that specs are not everything.

Also, the DR is about the same, specs are misleading. When you take real comparison shots, there is almost no difference. (look for comparisons on youtube).

Price point however is another story. If I had no kit, the Sony/Panasonic would be a really great deal. Already having the 18-55 and 11-22 EF-M lenses, makes me want a Canon to use those with (especially the 11-22)

I am being selfish here because video, and burst modes mean nothing to me, my landscape and architecture subjects rarely move :)

However, while the specs of the cameras you mention sound alluring, they do have their issues (overheating Sony A6300s are another issue).

That said, I would buy any of these as an alternative, especially the Panasonic TZ100 as it fits in the pocket.

I'm still hoping for the M50 to have the APS-C 24Mpx sensor with DPAF and a viewfinder for £500 :)

preppyak

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #94 on: February 12, 2018, 10:18:42 PM »
The idea that Canon's full frame 6dII didnt need 4k, but a mid-level APS-C mirrorless did is just inane thinking from Canon.

I assume the 90D will get it as will further cameras down the line, but this is still just laughable that they go so over the top to protect their own lineup, then make weird choices like this

Talys

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #95 on: February 12, 2018, 11:32:29 PM »
The idea that Canon's full frame 6dII didnt need 4k, but a mid-level APS-C mirrorless did is just inane thinking from Canon.

I assume the 90D will get it as will further cameras down the line, but this is still just laughable that they go so over the top to protect their own lineup, then make weird choices like this

Why?  There are plenty of people who want a full frame camera for photography and don't want to pay a premium for more video features.

Conversely, there are plenty of people who want 4k, but don't care about whether a camera is full frame or not -- and who just don't want to spend a few thousand dollars (including lenses).


wildwalker

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #96 on: February 13, 2018, 03:09:20 AM »
The idea that Canon's full frame 6dII didnt need 4k, but a mid-level APS-C mirrorless did is just inane thinking from Canon.

I assume the 90D will get it as will further cameras down the line, but this is still just laughable that they go so over the top to protect their own lineup, then make weird choices like this

Why?  There are plenty of people who want a full frame camera for photography and don't want to pay a premium for more video features.

Conversely, there are plenty of people who want 4k, but don't care about whether a camera is full frame or not -- and who just don't want to spend a few thousand dollars (including lenses).

I agree, the 6D range is a photographers camera first, as are all the DSLRs. Video has only been added due to pressure from competitors and the market, but it is not the primary function of any DSLR.

I would rather Canon spend all the development dollars on image quality for stills. Perhaps releasing a lower priced 'C' camera for video enthusiasts/vloggers.

Do people really need 4K? especially vloggers. I can see the use of having a larger frame to crop, so say a 2K size, but most content just doesn't justify 4K when it's amateur footage.

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #96 on: February 13, 2018, 03:09:20 AM »

TonyPicture

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #97 on: February 13, 2018, 06:58:26 AM »
Why does it take Canon so long to bring a camera out? I believe Nikon just get on with it like they did with 850, or are they just as bad?

We'll still be here next year and for those harping on 'to 4k or not to 4k' IMO the 6dii should have had a much better image quality compared to the 6d 2012 version that's the more important upgrade which just did not happen...

Mikehit

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #98 on: February 13, 2018, 07:05:28 AM »
Why does it take Canon so long to bring a camera out? I believe Nikon just get on with it like they did with 850, or are they just as bad?

We'll still be here next year and for those harping on 'to 4k or not to 4k' IMO the 6dii should have had a much better image quality compared to the 6d 2012 version that's the more important upgrade which just did not happen...

How long do you think it took Nikon to design, develop, beta test and release the D850?
Many people who actually use the 6D2 say it does does have better image quality than the 6D, just not in the way people were predicting or in the way they hoped. Nikon sees buying in sensors as their route to gaining ground on Canon, Canon consider sensor quality to be lower down the list or priorities so are happy to keep manufacturing their own sensors.   

I do wish people wold look on a camera as a tool rather than thinking it is all about the sensor.

TonyPicture

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #99 on: February 13, 2018, 07:20:04 AM »
Why does it take Canon so long to bring a camera out? I believe Nikon just get on with it like they did with 850, or are they just as bad?

We'll still be here next year and for those harping on 'to 4k or not to 4k' IMO the 6dii should have had a much better image quality compared to the 6d 2012 version that's the more important upgrade which just did not happen...

How long do you think it took Nikon to design, develop, beta test and release the D850?
Many people who actually use the 6D2 say it does does have better image quality than the 6D, just not in the way people were predicting or in the way they hoped. Nikon sees buying in sensors as their route to gaining ground on Canon, Canon consider sensor quality to be lower down the list or priorities so are happy to keep manufacturing their own sensors.   

I do wish people wold look on a camera as a tool rather than thinking it is all about the sensor.

Having purchased a 6d2 I can say it's poor in terms of image quality and hardly any change compared to my old 6d, I also own a Sony a7ii the DR is amazing(shame about the colours but it dose render amazing detail with lots of DR) so from my point of view after 6yrs it seems the bonus is that they added a very useful flip out screen plus some good focusing but failed to improve on the image side, for me it's more about the clarity of a portrait and rendering of detail in shots than thinking it's 'only a tool'...

Not sure how long Nikon took to develop the d850 but did they a spend along time talking about it, or did they just get on and release it? Hopefully Canon will give us something soon...

wildwalker

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #100 on: February 13, 2018, 07:24:19 AM »
Why does it take Canon so long to bring a camera out? I believe Nikon just get on with it like they did with 850, or are they just as bad?

We'll still be here next year and for those harping on 'to 4k or not to 4k' IMO the 6dii should have had a much better image quality compared to the 6d 2012 version that's the more important upgrade which just did not happen...

How long do you think it took Nikon to design, develop, beta test and release the D850?
Many people who actually use the 6D2 say it does does have better image quality than the 6D, just not in the way people were predicting or in the way they hoped. Nikon sees buying in sensors as their route to gaining ground on Canon, Canon consider sensor quality to be lower down the list or priorities so are happy to keep manufacturing their own sensors.   

I do wish people wold look on a camera as a tool rather than thinking it is all about the sensor.

If you look at reviews about the IQ (ignoring the idiotic ones about 4K) then they are generally positive about the IQ of the 6D, many reviewers saying it falls between the 5DMk3 and 5DMk4, not bad for a camera at half the cost.

4 or 5 years is a reasonable time frame for a camera of this complexity, especially when you factor in that year on year advancements in photo technology are quite slow, which is why the higher refresh at the lower end of the market never really delivers much in the way of performance boosts, unless something happened that year like a bump in sensor technology.

Everytime the image quality is increased, the next increase is that much harder to attain, and generally it is smaller, that's how development goes. Yes occasionally something comes along to advance IQ, but it takes time, which is why a 4-5 year refresh cycle makes sense.

I still think 4K (or any video) on DSLR cameras is a waste of money, the focus is still on still images, thats what photographers mainly buy them for. Most of the video functions are after thoughts, the audio is generally crap and the usability compared to a video-centric devices is poor.

If your focus is video, and you want a video camera, go and buy one. Right tool for the right job and all that. I think Canon are spot on ignoring pressure for a feature that a lot of people rant about, but rarely use.


rrcphoto

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #101 on: February 13, 2018, 12:51:02 PM »
so from my point of view after 6yrs

more like 4.8 but who's counting.


Talys

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #102 on: February 13, 2018, 01:02:19 PM »
If you look at reviews about the IQ (ignoring the idiotic ones about 4K) then they are generally positive about the IQ of the 6D, many reviewers saying it falls between the 5DMk3 and 5DMk4, not bad for a camera at half the cost.

As an owner of a 6DII, that's exactly where it is. 


I still think 4K (or any video) on DSLR cameras is a waste of money, the focus is still on still images, thats what photographers mainly buy them for. Most of the video functions are after thoughts, the audio is generally crap and the usability compared to a video-centric devices is poor.

If your focus is video, and you want a video camera, go and buy one. Right tool for the right job and all that. I think Canon are spot on ignoring pressure for a feature that a lot of people rant about, but rarely use.

Couldn't agree more.  The form factor is totally wrong.  I have repeatedly posted that I can't imagine why someone would want to spend thousands of dollars on the wrong device for the job, if their goal is to produce great video.

If it's wedding/event videos, I think a real camcorder would be a far superior tool.  And it's not like a professional photographer can say, "okay, I'm going to swap between taking wedding videos and wedding photos so I can do it all on this one device".  I mean, you'd want the wedding camcorder to be recording (and manned) and be taking wedding photos at the same time... right?

Home videos, all 4k does is force you to downsample it, because you can't share 4k videos with most people.

For vloggers and such, the only benefit to 4k that I can see is that you can use the wrong lens and crop to zoom.  Which seems to me, you'd be better off using the right lens. 

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #102 on: February 13, 2018, 01:02:19 PM »

alienman

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #103 on: February 13, 2018, 01:48:26 PM »
I understand the importance of image quality being made, it is something canon has going for them along with a long line of top quality glass. I believe it is safe to say 4k is technology that is becoming expected from our devices. Who cares what people are using if for, I use it because it looks a lot better that 1080 even at low bit rates. Other companies are offering it so why shouldn’t canon give it to us. There are also more 4k displays on the market at affordable prices (as low as $200). I am hoping for more new innovative features from canon in the future along with the supreme image quality to put and end to all of the chatter that I hear about why Sony is a better choice in 2018 because of their innovation and they are the company of the future.

I agree with the comments about buying a video camera for high end production work. I believe that is the route that will be taken by anyone in their right mind. With that being said I wouldn’t mind if canon implemented 4k into their mirrorless and dslr’s at a low bit rate of 50mb/s and affordable price. This would not propose any threat to their cinema line.

crazyrunner33

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #104 on: February 13, 2018, 03:37:21 PM »
Why do people assume that professionals in the video world hate the DSLR form factor? I'm a video producer in the marketing world, and I prefer the DSLR body over the traditional camera body, and there are many others who feel the same way. Why do we like the DSLR? Because it's compact, and blends in with the crowd. We love that large sensor look, and we enjoy being able to move around without raising an eyebrow or becoming overly fatigue. We like that the DSLR is versatile and can be rigged with all the gear we need for an A camera shot, or configure it to fly on a gimbal, or run it hand held and use the neck strap and IBS to help create steady run and gun footage. Yeah, there are instances where we want a dedicated video camera like a C200, but we also want something light weight and discreet in our tool kit.

There's also a big misunderstanding about 4K. Everyone assumes that 4K is only about pixel resolution, but they completely forget about incredible changes to dynamic range and color resolution that comes with the new Rec 2020 standard.

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #104 on: February 13, 2018, 03:37:21 PM »