February 21, 2018, 08:41:11 AM

Author Topic: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]  (Read 12623 times)

wildwalker

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #105 on: February 13, 2018, 04:06:13 PM »
Why do people assume that professionals in the video world hate the DSLR form factor? I'm a video producer in the marketing world, and I prefer the DSLR body over the traditional camera body, and there are many others who feel the same way. Why do we like the DSLR? Because it's compact, and blends in with the crowd. We love that large sensor look, and we enjoy being able to move around without raising an eyebrow or becoming overly fatigue. We like that the DSLR is versatile and can be rigged with all the gear we need for an A camera shot, or configure it to fly on a gimbal, or run it hand held and use the neck strap and IBS to help create steady run and gun footage. Yeah, there are instances where we want a dedicated video camera like a C200, but we also want something light weight and discreet in our tool kit.

There's also a big misunderstanding about 4K. Everyone assumes that 4K is only about pixel resolution, but they completely forget about incredible changes to dynamic range and color resolution that comes with the new Rec 2020 standard.

rec 2100 brings WCG to HD, so rec 2020 doesn't really have that advantage anymore. BT2084 (HDR) is applicable to both HD and UHD (in part of rec 2100 I think), so again, not necessarily an advantage for UHD.

Also UHD Phase 1 used rec 709, the same colour space as HD, so again, you have to know what spec your UHD kit is working to.


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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #105 on: February 13, 2018, 04:06:13 PM »

zim

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #106 on: February 13, 2018, 04:43:33 PM »
Do you think there is any chance Canon will start designing these M's to take a battery grip?
The M5 type with battery grip accessory would make the world of difference for me ergonomically and of course more juice :)

wildwalker

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #107 on: February 13, 2018, 04:53:00 PM »
Do you think there is any chance Canon will start designing these M's to take a battery grip?
The M5 type with battery grip accessory would make the world of difference for me ergonomically and of course more juice :)

I would say no. The ethos behind the M series is size (one of the points of Mirrorless is you can make the body smaller, as there are very few mechanically moving parts).

The only reason that the body would be imbalanced is if you are using the mount adapter and a non M lens. If you did this, and threw on a battery box, then you may as well have purchased the SL2, 1200D, 750D etc.

If you want something that is more balanced, and you obviously are not size conscious, if you don't mind a battery box, then buy a normal DSLR.

If you do want more battery life, buy a spare battery and put it in your pocket, or if you are lucky, the M50 will allow USB charging, so you can just use the same power bank you charge your phone with to extend battery life.

Rocky

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #108 on: February 13, 2018, 07:14:24 PM »
Do you think there is any chance Canon will start designing these M's to take a battery grip?
The M5 type with battery grip accessory would make the world of difference for me ergonomically and of course more juice :)

I would say no. The ethos behind the M series is size (one of the points of Mirrorless is you can make the body smaller, as there are very few mechanically moving parts).

The only reason that the body would be imbalanced is if you are using the mount adapter and a non M lens. If you did this, and threw on a battery box, then you may as well have purchased the SL2, 1200D, 750D etc.

If you want something that is more balanced, and you obviously are not size conscious, if you don't mind a battery box, then buy a normal DSLR.

If you do want more battery life, buy a spare battery and put it in your pocket, or if you are lucky, the M50 will allow USB charging, so you can just use the same power bank you charge your phone with to extend battery life.

The 35-135 EF balances very well with adapter with my M and M2. Both do not even have a real grip. I am holding it in the “old school” way by cradling my left hand under the lens. This is the prefer way to hold the camera with lens longer than the standard lens at the time that there is not a single camera has a grip

zim

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #109 on: February 14, 2018, 10:01:02 AM »
Do you think there is any chance Canon will start designing these M's to take a battery grip?
The M5 type with battery grip accessory would make the world of difference for me ergonomically and of course more juice :)

I would say no. The ethos behind the M series is size (one of the points of Mirrorless is you can make the body smaller, as there are very few mechanically moving parts).

The only reason that the body would be imbalanced is if you are using the mount adapter and a non M lens. If you did this, and threw on a battery box, then you may as well have purchased the SL2, 1200D, 750D etc.

If you want something that is more balanced, and you obviously are not size conscious, if you don't mind a battery box, then buy a normal DSLR.

If you do want more battery life, buy a spare battery and put it in your pocket, or if you are lucky, the M50 will allow USB charging, so you can just use the same power bank you charge your phone with to extend battery life.

The 35-135 EF balances very well with adapter with my M and M2. Both do not even have a real grip. I am holding it in the “old school” way by cradling my left hand under the lens. This is the prefer way to hold the camera with lens longer than the standard lens at the time that there is not a single camera has a grip

To both, personal preference is just that. Used to have a 500d, really didn't like that, nothing to do with balance (small primes) I hate fingers wrapping under the base plate I find that very uncomfortable after any length of time these small camera's are the same, always been like that even with SLRs.
The nice thing about a removable battery grip is that you don't need to use them. But those that do can.
Maybe I could hack an old power winder up and use the space inside to store a spare battery or two :)

@Rocky "Old School"  :o  I can't imagine holding a camera any other way whilst taking pictures  :)

scyrene

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #110 on: February 14, 2018, 04:27:05 PM »
That argument became part of the discussion because of certain people’s vehemence against those requesting that feature.  ;)

Winky face or not, I can't recall seeing anyone 'vehemently against' 4K, perhaps you could share some quotes?
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scyrene

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #111 on: February 14, 2018, 04:50:48 PM »
Not sure how long Nikon took to develop the d850 but did they a spend along time talking about it, or did they just get on and release it? Hopefully Canon will give us something soon...

I think you may be confused. This is a rumour website. This isn't 'Canon talking' about their upcoming products, which they almost never do. This is piecing together hearsay, and trying to find out what is coming. I'm sure the rumour websites for other brands talk about the possible future releases for just as long in advance as is the case here.
Current equipment: 5Ds, 5D mark III, 50D, 24-105L, MP-E, 100L macro, 500L IS II; 1.4xIII + 2x III extenders; 600EX-RT.
Former equipment includes: 300D; EOS-M, EF-M 18-55, Samyang 14mm f/2.8, EF 35 f/2 IS, 70-200L f/4 non-IS and f/2.8L IS II, 85L II, Sigma 180 macro, 200L 2.8, 400L 5.6

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #111 on: February 14, 2018, 04:50:48 PM »

stevelee

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #112 on: February 14, 2018, 05:23:12 PM »
Perhaps of some interest or relevance to this topic (or perhaps not), is a video that compares iPhone X 4K video to 1080p on a G7X II.

http://designtaxi.com/news/398308/Watch-iPhone-X-VS-Canon-s-Popular-High-End-G7-X-Mark-II-Compact-Camera/

Obviously the Canon's advantages over the iPhone would be most obvious in stills shot in RAW, but I found this interesting. In my case I sometimes shoot 4K on my iPhone 6S, and do some video with my G7X II when I travel, using whichever seems more suited to the task at hand. The differences in the video however do not seem to be that related to 4K vs. 1080p. Some messages here seem to reflect a belief that all 4K is going to be better than all 1080p, but maybe I'm too harsh. All things being equal, all things are rarely equal in reality.

wildwalker

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #113 on: February 14, 2018, 06:06:08 PM »
Perhaps of some interest or relevance to this topic (or perhaps not), is a video that compares iPhone X 4K video to 1080p on a G7X II.

http://designtaxi.com/news/398308/Watch-iPhone-X-VS-Canon-s-Popular-High-End-G7-X-Mark-II-Compact-Camera/

Obviously the Canon's advantages over the iPhone would be most obvious in stills shot in RAW, but I found this interesting. In my case I sometimes shoot 4K on my iPhone 6S, and do some video with my G7X II when I travel, using whichever seems more suited to the task at hand. The differences in the video however do not seem to be that related to 4K vs. 1080p. Some messages here seem to reflect a belief that all 4K is going to be better than all 1080p, but maybe I'm too harsh. All things being equal, all things are rarely equal in reality.

With 4 x the resolution, 4k should be a winner over 1080p. But of course the 4K has to have enough bit rate. 1080 is normally h.264 whereas 4K is now generally HEVC. HEVC is not as mature as h.264 and so codecs can be poor (wouldn't expect that with Canon though).

4K at p30 looks worse than 1080 at the same frame rate though (because 4K is normally consumed on a much larger screen, so the judder is more noticeable).

Talys

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #114 on: February 14, 2018, 07:18:07 PM »
With 4 x the resolution, 4k should be a winner over 1080p. But of course the 4K has to have enough bit rate. 1080 is normally h.264 whereas 4K is now generally HEVC. HEVC is not as mature as h.264 and so codecs can be poor (wouldn't expect that with Canon though).

4K at p30 looks worse than 1080 at the same frame rate though (because 4K is normally consumed on a much larger screen, so the judder is more noticeable).

The real question becomes:

Do people buy the M50 because they want to record 4k video, or do they buy the M50 because they want a digital camera that is able to record 4k video?

If it's just a checkbox, they won't really care, and in the end, I suspect a lot of these people will goof around with 4k and end up recording 1080 and be happy with smaller files.  Of course, that's not to say that some people won't genuinely want/need to record 4k video.  For these folks, we'll soon find out whether the M50 is great, good enough, good enough considering EF lenses, or inferior to other alternatives.

slclick

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #115 on: February 14, 2018, 08:20:09 PM »
With 4 x the resolution, 4k should be a winner over 1080p. But of course the 4K has to have enough bit rate. 1080 is normally h.264 whereas 4K is now generally HEVC. HEVC is not as mature as h.264 and so codecs can be poor (wouldn't expect that with Canon though).

4K at p30 looks worse than 1080 at the same frame rate though (because 4K is normally consumed on a much larger screen, so the judder is more noticeable).

The real question becomes:

Do people buy the M50 because they want to record 4k video, or do they buy the M50 because they want a digital camera that is able to record 4k video?

If it's just a checkbox, they won't really care, and in the end, I suspect a lot of these people will goof around with 4k and end up recording 1080 and be happy with smaller files.  Of course, that's not to say that some people won't genuinely want/need to record 4k video.  For these folks, we'll soon find out whether the M50 is great, good enough, good enough considering EF lenses, or inferior to other alternatives.

When has a client been able to tell the difference? This is of course assuming Canon gear being used. The never ending rallying cry is 95% from spec sheet droolers. I know there are fine video shooters out there with legit concerns but you're in the minority.
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wildwalker

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #116 on: February 15, 2018, 02:09:02 AM »
With 4 x the resolution, 4k should be a winner over 1080p. But of course the 4K has to have enough bit rate. 1080 is normally h.264 whereas 4K is now generally HEVC. HEVC is not as mature as h.264 and so codecs can be poor (wouldn't expect that with Canon though).

4K at p30 looks worse than 1080 at the same frame rate though (because 4K is normally consumed on a much larger screen, so the judder is more noticeable).

The real question becomes:

Do people buy the M50 because they want to record 4k video, or do they buy the M50 because they want a digital camera that is able to record 4k video?

If it's just a checkbox, they won't really care, and in the end, I suspect a lot of these people will goof around with 4k and end up recording 1080 and be happy with smaller files.  Of course, that's not to say that some people won't genuinely want/need to record 4k video.  For these folks, we'll soon find out whether the M50 is great, good enough, good enough considering EF lenses, or inferior to other alternatives.

When has a client been able to tell the difference? This is of course assuming Canon gear being used. The never ending rallying cry is 95% from spec sheet droolers. I know there are fine video shooters out there with legit concerns but you're in the minority.

I guess there are two customer bases for this body. (1) The photographer who is pushed for space, and needs something smaller on occasions, who will probably experiment with video, but most of the time be taking photographs. (2) Vloggers, who 99% of the time won't touch that shutter button, but will use the 4K (assuming its not got some annoying limitations like x mins of recording, or only 15fps etc.)

Random Orbits

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #117 on: February 15, 2018, 09:08:24 AM »
With 4 x the resolution, 4k should be a winner over 1080p. But of course the 4K has to have enough bit rate. 1080 is normally h.264 whereas 4K is now generally HEVC. HEVC is not as mature as h.264 and so codecs can be poor (wouldn't expect that with Canon though).

4K at p30 looks worse than 1080 at the same frame rate though (because 4K is normally consumed on a much larger screen, so the judder is more noticeable).

The real question becomes:

Do people buy the M50 because they want to record 4k video, or do they buy the M50 because they want a digital camera that is able to record 4k video?

If it's just a checkbox, they won't really care, and in the end, I suspect a lot of these people will goof around with 4k and end up recording 1080 and be happy with smaller files.  Of course, that's not to say that some people won't genuinely want/need to record 4k video.  For these folks, we'll soon find out whether the M50 is great, good enough, good enough considering EF lenses, or inferior to other alternatives.

Perhaps Canon has finally developed 4K so that it can be done efficiently enough to include on all cameras.  We saw it first on the 1DC then 1DX II/5DIV, but even then people complained about crop factors and storage requirements.  Hopefully an efficient 4K will be the baseline going forward.

I don't mind that the M50 gets the feature before the M5/M6.  I'd rather Canon get the technology right and introduce it into the product when it ready.

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #117 on: February 15, 2018, 09:08:24 AM »

rrcphoto

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #118 on: February 15, 2018, 10:24:28 AM »
Why do people assume that professionals in the video world hate the DSLR form factor? I'm a video producer in the marketing world, and I prefer the DSLR body over the traditional camera body, and there are many others who feel the same way. Why do we like the DSLR? Because it's compact, and blends in with the crowd. We love that large sensor look, and we enjoy being able to move around without raising an eyebrow or becoming overly fatigue. We like that the DSLR is versatile and can be rigged with all the gear we need for an A camera shot, or configure it to fly on a gimbal, or run it hand held and use the neck strap and IBS to help create steady run and gun footage. Yeah, there are instances where we want a dedicated video camera like a C200, but we also want something light weight and discreet in our tool kit.

you are confusing ILC form factor with DSLR. DSLR's with an optical viewfinder is certainly not the most optimum solution to the problem.   Mirrorless with an EVF is more of a complete hybrid solution.

Tugela

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #119 on: February 20, 2018, 05:52:22 AM »
With 4 x the resolution, 4k should be a winner over 1080p. But of course the 4K has to have enough bit rate. 1080 is normally h.264 whereas 4K is now generally HEVC. HEVC is not as mature as h.264 and so codecs can be poor (wouldn't expect that with Canon though).

4K at p30 looks worse than 1080 at the same frame rate though (because 4K is normally consumed on a much larger screen, so the judder is more noticeable).


The real question becomes:

Do people buy the M50 because they want to record 4k video, or do they buy the M50 because they want a digital camera that is able to record 4k video?

If it's just a checkbox, they won't really care, and in the end, I suspect a lot of these people will goof around with 4k and end up recording 1080 and be happy with smaller files.  Of course, that's not to say that some people won't genuinely want/need to record 4k video.  For these folks, we'll soon find out whether the M50 is great, good enough, good enough considering EF lenses, or inferior to other alternatives.

Perhaps Canon has finally developed 4K so that it can be done efficiently enough to include on all cameras.  We saw it first on the 1DC then 1DX II/5DIV, but even then people complained about crop factors and storage requirements.  Hopefully an efficient 4K will be the baseline going forward.

I don't mind that the M50 gets the feature before the M5/M6.  I'd rather Canon get the technology right and introduce it into the product when it ready.

Apparently the camera has a Digic 8 processor in it, which is the stills equivalent of the Digic DV6 in the XF400/405/GX10 camcorders. So it will likely shoot similar quality 4K footage, but probably only up to 30p due to the extra pixels in the sensor.

From what I have seen the of footage from those camcorders tend to have dubious resolution so I expect the video from the M50 to be substandard compared to most of it's competitors.

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Re: The Canon EOS M50 Will Shoot 4K [CR3]
« Reply #119 on: February 20, 2018, 05:52:22 AM »