June 19, 2018, 03:29:20 AM

Author Topic: 1080 video quality on 5dmk4 and 1dx2 vs competition?  (Read 15579 times)

BillB

  • EOS 7D Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 552
Re: 1080 video quality on 5dmk4 and 1dx2 vs competition?
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2018, 05:37:23 PM »
This may be of interest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFvpJSmB_Ps

The fellow compares a Canon 1DX Mark II and an Sony A7R III.  His findings are interesting; it's worth a watch.

Spoilers/TLDR:
- He really really really wanted to switch to the Sony A7R III because of size (he hates 1DXII size)
- 1DXII is better for 1080p video (also, it supports 4k 60fps vs 30fps 4k on Sony, but he doesn't care)
- Slow motion on 1DXII is significantly smoother
- AF on 1DXII is better.  Also, when it's OOF and acquiring focus, the result on a 1DXII is more pleasing
- AF on Sony with adapted lens is not good enough.  But he says native lens is also inferior to 1DXII
- He likes Canon colors better
- The 1DXII is going to remain his video rig; he's going to probably return the A7RIII
- If it were just photography, he'd probably go A7RIII, because of size

Interesting.  Others have said that 1DXII  and 5DII 1080 was soft. 

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 1080 video quality on 5dmk4 and 1dx2 vs competition?
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2018, 05:37:23 PM »

Jack Douglas

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *********
  • Posts: 5341
  • http://www.gohaidagwaii.ca/blog/eagle-photography-
Re: 1080 video quality on 5dmk4 and 1dx2 vs competition?
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2018, 06:05:06 PM »
bhf3737, thanks for this information.  Sometimes folk forget what it's like when you've had zero previous involvement.  Even the most basic terms and concepts are foreign. 

After Scott's comments, I checked into Adobe Premiere Pro, but that's subscription and often I find myself not using software for periods of other involvement and am not sure I want to go that route.  Perhaps that's just a mental block but it's one reason I bought ON1 RAW, for example.

I will check out Cyberlink PowerDirector because it sounds like that's just what I want to do and I'm not making money off this activity and likely won't get as engaged as I do with photos ... but one never knows, right? ;)

Another thing is what size of lens can be handled by the stabilized gimbals - like would I be fine with the 11-24?

Jack
1DX2   11-24 F4   24-70 F4   70-200 F2.8 II   300 F2.8 II   1.4X III   2X III   400 DO F4 II 

http://yourshot.nationalgeographic.com/profile/647784/

Jack Douglas

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *********
  • Posts: 5341
  • http://www.gohaidagwaii.ca/blog/eagle-photography-
Re: 1080 video quality on 5dmk4 and 1dx2 vs competition?
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2018, 06:19:43 PM »
Thanks jayphotoworks; great info on using a mic.  Presently, I can't do any 4K editing other than with Corel Videostudio X9.  The Corel guy said it can't do the 4K to 1050 with panning or I was thinking of upgrading to X10 - looks like that software purchase was a waste. 

So about all I've done is record some 4K and played it back (Canon or Corel).  Another issue is only having 64 and 128 CFast cards at the moment but that's easy to solve with $$$.  Shooting with 400 X2 was an eye opener in terms of shake.  You can't even touch the camera so I guess it'd have to be fixed on a spot and then remote release.

Any advice from anyone, please remember I'm a complete dummy at this moment relative to video. :(

Once someone was being roasted over owning a 1DX2 and not wanting/being able to afford CFast cards.  I can relate; you spend way to much on a camera and lens and have little left - duh.  Actually, I'm able to still afford some gear but can't be foolish in that regard.  Furthermore my nature is to be careful spending and other family members have a right to some toys too.

Jack
1DX2   11-24 F4   24-70 F4   70-200 F2.8 II   300 F2.8 II   1.4X III   2X III   400 DO F4 II 

http://yourshot.nationalgeographic.com/profile/647784/

privatebydesign

  • Canon EF 800mm f/5.6L IS
  • ***********
  • Posts: 6882
  • Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Re: 1080 video quality on 5dmk4 and 1dx2 vs competition?
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2018, 06:42:30 PM »

Another thing is what size of lens can be handled by the stabilized gimbals - like would I be fine with the 11-24?

Jack

I linked to the Zhiyun Crane 2 (not v2) because it is the only gimbal of that type and price bracket that can take 7lbs, or enough for the 1DX MkII and 11-24, but you do need the gravity plate I also linked to because of the height of the 1DX MkII.

Indeed that body lens combo is what I am getting mine for, the 11mm enables super wide fov even with a 4k crop, although the first jobs I have lined up for it are 1080 real estate walk throughs.
Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

Jack Douglas

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *********
  • Posts: 5341
  • http://www.gohaidagwaii.ca/blog/eagle-photography-
Re: 1080 video quality on 5dmk4 and 1dx2 vs competition?
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2018, 07:34:41 PM »
Thanks Scott!

Guess I've steered this a little off topic but maybe not enough to bother anyone??

Do you sense we're on the edge of these stabilized gimbals coming down in price?

I watched the video and I think that guy made pretty valid points.  Certainly the AF characteristic is important to me.

Is an external monitor relevant or does the gimbal give you flexibility on viewing further away?

Jack
1DX2   11-24 F4   24-70 F4   70-200 F2.8 II   300 F2.8 II   1.4X III   2X III   400 DO F4 II 

http://yourshot.nationalgeographic.com/profile/647784/

syder

  • EOS M5
  • ****
  • Posts: 151
Re: 1080 video quality on 5dmk4 and 1dx2 vs competition?
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2018, 10:23:59 PM »
Basically the main thing Canon has going for its DSLR (and C series) video is Dual Pixel autofocus. It absolutely smashes anything I've seen on Sony/Panasonic/Blackmagic cameras. If you have a dedicated focus puller that doesn't mean much, but most people doing DSLR video dont have much in the way of assistance/crew.

The WiFi connect App is also pretty awesome. Remotely being able to control the camera settings and pull focus from a smartphone or tablet is great for vloggers or if the camera is on a crane/rigged in a way that makes it hard to manually access.

Being able to work in ways that were not possible with the 5D3/C100 means a lot more to me than any minor improvement/loss of marginal detail.

The GH5 is a beast for indie fiction work. The A7s2 is absolutely amazing in lowlight. But if you want class-leading AF (and the Face tracking DPAF is good enough to just be allowed to do its thing for documentary interviews and to camera educational material) then Canon still have an advantage.

privatebydesign

  • Canon EF 800mm f/5.6L IS
  • ***********
  • Posts: 6882
  • Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Re: 1080 video quality on 5dmk4 and 1dx2 vs competition?
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2018, 12:26:33 AM »
Thanks Scott!

Guess I've steered this a little off topic but maybe not enough to bother anyone??

Do you sense we're on the edge of these stabilized gimbals coming down in price?

I watched the video and I think that guy made pretty valid points.  Certainly the AF characteristic is important to me.

Is an external monitor relevant or does the gimbal give you flexibility on viewing further away?

Jack

I don't see them dropping in price, certainly not in the >6lb category, maybe new features and form factors but the value is there if you need the tool. The Ronin S isn't out yet and is supposed to be comparable to the Crane 2, it won't be cheaper but will have more system add ons.

As for external monitors, I haven't gone there yet as I am traveling but do have a CamRanger already that is video output capable to most phones and laptops so I might experiment when I have more time.
Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 1080 video quality on 5dmk4 and 1dx2 vs competition?
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2018, 12:26:33 AM »

Jack Douglas

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *********
  • Posts: 5341
  • http://www.gohaidagwaii.ca/blog/eagle-photography-
Re: 1080 video quality on 5dmk4 and 1dx2 vs competition?
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2018, 03:18:04 AM »
Thanks Scott.

Jack
1DX2   11-24 F4   24-70 F4   70-200 F2.8 II   300 F2.8 II   1.4X III   2X III   400 DO F4 II 

http://yourshot.nationalgeographic.com/profile/647784/

3dit0r

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 44
Re: 1080 video quality on 5dmk4 and 1dx2 vs competition?
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2018, 03:27:18 AM »
Probably a question that's been asked and answered before but I've been to distracted.  To convert 4K video from my 1DX2 to HD and be able to incorporate panning and zooming, what is the best software for a fussy beginner.  I have a special trip I'm planning for late summer and I really would love to do some video and not just the usual photos.

Like so many new ventures in life, it's hard to get initial traction and I don't really want to either be bogged down in software that is near impossible to learn without numerous courses or alternately not satisfactory for reasons I would soon become aware of.   I must get started on this! :(

Is there someone that does this all the time that has an overall perspective on it?

Jack

Several options:

Avid Media Composer First - slightly pared down version of full media composer, but it's still the industry standard and this version is free. Personally I still find this the fastest, most intuitive and robust NLE. Still the best trim mode out there.

Lightworks - another industry standard NLE. The free version is limited, but if you're dabbling, how much do you need for no outlay?

Davinci Resolve. It's free for most functions and fully featured, and of course industry standard colour correction. I don't think the editor part is as intuitive as the above, but if you want it all in one package...

The others aren't free. Also, Apple screwed themselves (and a large number of editors) when they switched to Final Cut Pro X which put a lot of people off. Never got on with that or Première anyway, but that's a personal thing, I know there are people who like them.

jayphotoworks

  • EOS Rebel SL2
  • ***
  • Posts: 91
Re: 1080 video quality on 5dmk4 and 1dx2 vs competition?
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2018, 11:36:52 AM »
This may be of interest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFvpJSmB_Ps

The fellow compares a Canon 1DX Mark II and an Sony A7R III.  His findings are interesting; it's worth a watch.

Spoilers/TLDR:
- He really really really wanted to switch to the Sony A7R III because of size (he hates 1DXII size)
- 1DXII is better for 1080p video (also, it supports 4k 60fps vs 30fps 4k on Sony, but he doesn't care)
- Slow motion on 1DXII is significantly smoother
- AF on 1DXII is better.  Also, when it's OOF and acquiring focus, the result on a 1DXII is more pleasing
- AF on Sony with adapted lens is not good enough.  But he says native lens is also inferior to 1DXII
- He likes Canon colors better
- The 1DXII is going to remain his video rig; he's going to probably return the A7RIII
- If it were just photography, he'd probably go A7RIII, because of size

Interesting.  Others have said that 1DXII  and 5DII 1080 was soft.

There are a number of specifics that Sony does very well:

- Dual record 4K to both cards simultaneously
- LOG/HLG on the Sony
- FF (no crop) vs S35 crop switchable on the Sony
- Real EVF
- Tilting Rear LCD
- Focus Assists, Configurable Zebra, Markers and Aspect Grids
- 4K 8bit 4:2:2 out via HDMI (vs 1080 on the 5D4/1DX2)
- Configurable custom buttons specific to video (in video mode) and alternate configuration for (stills mode)
- Built in proxy recording
- Sony shotgun/stereo and dual-xlr audio kit all connect via the multi-interface shoe. No separate 3.5mm cable, no need for AA batteries or external power

I think overall usability and flexibility for video acquisition in this segment is better than Canon's current offerings. AF on the Sony is adequate at least in decent light, but obviously nowhere near Canon's DPAF performance. Sony's codec is also much weaker for grading, but for the work that I would employ my Sony, I don't need the extra headroom resulting in additional hours in the editing suite and I also don't want to burn through media every 15-20mins either.




Talys

  • EOS-1D X Mark II
  • *******
  • Posts: 1641
  • Canon 6DII
Re: 1080 video quality on 5dmk4 and 1dx2 vs competition?
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2018, 11:57:00 AM »
Basically the main thing Canon has going for its DSLR (and C series) video is Dual Pixel autofocus. It absolutely smashes anything I've seen on Sony/Panasonic/Blackmagic cameras. If you have a dedicated focus puller that doesn't mean much, but most people doing DSLR video dont have much in the way of assistance/crew.

Yes.

I have a friend's A7R3 at the moment, and will shoot it when it gets sunny to give it a fair shake and post my findings.  I'm quite excited to give it a whirl, though that will have to wait til hopefully the weather improves (before I have to return it :)).  But the very first thing that I noticed is that hybrid PDAF Autofocus using a GMaster 100-400 is far, far short of 100-400L2 with Dual Pixel, especially as there is less available light.

The GMaster 70-200/2.8 is significantly better; but as the lights dim a little -- think flash photography use cases -- AF suffers immensely, compared to 70-200 L2.8 IS.

Often, even when the autofocus is acceptably fast, there is a visible back-and-forth hunting.  When in continuous autofocus, it's possible that the AF system is not sure even when it's a stationary target (like a book on a bookshelf) the AF thinks an awful lot and you can see the camera deciding on AF points. 

Contrast that with Canon AI Servo, where it's a solid lock and done.  I think it's less important with photography, because you don't see the hunting in the final result.  But it is distracting, because AF hunting has not been a real issue seemingly forever.  In video, I could see this being super annoying (though I don't care about video, myself).  The face tracking and subject tracking seems very good; perhaps this makes up for it a little bit, but still, when you need to go from defocused to in-focus, I do not find the transition pleasing as I do with practically every current Canon camera.  The EFS18-135 USM on an 80D sure puts AF on the A7R3 to shame.

Playing around with the camera a bit (but not really taking any photos), there are some features that are really great, like an ace crop mode implementation that 5DSR users would love.  But I don't think there's any way around it -- After fidgeting for 2 hours and watching configuration videos, I came to the initial conclusion that the AF seems inferior, both to TTL PDAF and live view DPAF, and that is a very important feature to me. 

« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 12:02:12 PM by Talys »

jayphotoworks

  • EOS Rebel SL2
  • ***
  • Posts: 91
Re: 1080 video quality on 5dmk4 and 1dx2 vs competition?
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2018, 11:59:02 AM »
Thanks Scott!

Guess I've steered this a little off topic but maybe not enough to bother anyone??

Do you sense we're on the edge of these stabilized gimbals coming down in price?

I watched the video and I think that guy made pretty valid points.  Certainly the AF characteristic is important to me.

Is an external monitor relevant or does the gimbal give you flexibility on viewing further away?

Jack

I don't see them dropping in price, certainly not in the >6lb category, maybe new features and form factors but the value is there if you need the tool. The Ronin S isn't out yet and is supposed to be comparable to the Crane 2, it won't be cheaper but will have more system add ons.

As for external monitors, I haven't gone there yet as I am traveling but do have a CamRanger already that is video output capable to most phones and laptops so I might experiment when I have more time.

I recently acquired a Zhiyun Crane 2. Because the form factor is so small, external monitoring seems like overkill, so I basically try to look past the roll motor. I know the Ronin-S has the roll motor at an angle which should solve this problem.

For wireless HDMI monitoring, the best low cost wireless option is probably the Nyrius Pro at $300. The receiver and transmitter can be powered via USB power packs, so you get creative with duct tape and cable ties. While there are other options like wifi, latency can tend to ruin a lot of your shots. If you are pulling focus or trying to do a camera movement, by the time the screen updates, you might have already missed the shot. The Nyrius does have relatively short range and the feed can sometimes get interrupted, but the next best option is over $3000 and targets a different market entirely.

Jack Douglas

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *********
  • Posts: 5341
  • http://www.gohaidagwaii.ca/blog/eagle-photography-
Re: 1080 video quality on 5dmk4 and 1dx2 vs competition?
« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2018, 12:19:24 PM »
Thanks guys!! 

It would seem that initially free software is a very good option, trusting the judgment of others and given that processing comes after recording I guess I'd better start shooting a lot of practice video to simply become more familiar with the challenges. 

I'm pretty much sold on the:

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B075T3TQSD/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3P9EAC3KD93H7&psc=1

Which you can see is a little more pricey than from the US but not enough for me to go to B&H.

But I'm wondering how easy it is to change focus points on the viewfinder when shooting, like if you're interested in a subject, as opposed to say landscape??

When shooting 4K is there any way an external monitor can work??

What use is 4K 60 - only slow motion??  Can it be used in every way like 4K 30??  Probably pretty dumb questions but like I said I have never done video (I seem to recall there is no audio but ...).

Jack
1DX2   11-24 F4   24-70 F4   70-200 F2.8 II   300 F2.8 II   1.4X III   2X III   400 DO F4 II 

http://yourshot.nationalgeographic.com/profile/647784/

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 1080 video quality on 5dmk4 and 1dx2 vs competition?
« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2018, 12:19:24 PM »

Talys

  • EOS-1D X Mark II
  • *******
  • Posts: 1641
  • Canon 6DII
Re: 1080 video quality on 5dmk4 and 1dx2 vs competition?
« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2018, 12:40:13 PM »
What use is 4K 60 - only slow motion??  Can it be used in every way like 4K 30??  Probably pretty dumb questions but like I said I have never done video (I seem to recall there is no audio but ...).

I'm no expert at this, but presenting video in 30 vs 60 fps have a very different look to them.

Movies are presented in 24fps (the historical reasons are partly economic), but the aesthetic is very different from HFR (high frame rate), like 60fps -- that has much more of a "live video" look (as in, you are right there).  Ironically, because audiences have gotten used to 24fps, some people feel that HFR looks "fake".

The most notable HFR video was The Hobbit, which screened at select theatres at 48 fps.  The audience feedback, I recall, was mixed.  Some people just didn't like it.  I never saw it in HFR, so I can't say for myself.

A lot of people in the cinematography claim that 24fps is aesthetically more pleasing... and I guess the proof is in that nearly all 2D/3D movies are presented that way.  But that just devolves into the same argument as DSLR versus Mirrorless :)
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 12:45:14 PM by Talys »

ethanz

  • EOS 7D Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 572
  • 1DX II
    • my website
Re: 1080 video quality on 5dmk4 and 1dx2 vs competition?
« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2018, 12:44:09 PM »



I don't see them dropping in price, certainly not in the >6lb category, maybe new features and form factors but the value is there if you need the tool. The Ronin S isn't out yet and is supposed to be comparable to the Crane 2, it won't be cheaper but will have more system add ons.

As for external monitors, I haven't gone there yet as I am traveling but do have a CamRanger already that is video output capable to most phones and laptops so I might experiment when I have more time.

I recently acquired a Zhiyun Crane 2. Because the form factor is so small, external monitoring seems like overkill, so I basically try to look past the roll motor. I know the Ronin-S has the roll motor at an angle which should solve this problem.



Scott and Jay,
So you two say that the Crane 2 will work well with the 1dx2 and maybe a 24-70 2.8? The gimbal will give full range of motion with that much weight on it? I was looking at the Ronin M but if this Crane 2 will do it, it seems to be easier to hold and move around. Using the screen to get focus though could be a challenge, right?
« Last Edit: March 08, 2018, 01:09:25 PM by ethanz »
1DX II, 16-35L f/4 IS, 24-70L f/2.8 II, 70-200L f/2.8 IS II, 200-400L f/4 IS w/1.4 EXT
http://ethanzentz.com/

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 1080 video quality on 5dmk4 and 1dx2 vs competition?
« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2018, 12:44:09 PM »