June 18, 2018, 10:11:45 AM

Author Topic: Poll Added: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Should  (Read 27564 times)

tmroper

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Re: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Does.
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2018, 04:56:39 PM »
They basically just need to come out with a FF mirrorless for those who want the lighter weight and EVF.  Their innovation on the DSLR side of things seems to be working just fine.

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Re: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Does.
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2018, 04:56:39 PM »

scyrene

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Re: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Does.
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2018, 04:57:22 PM »
Canon always seem to ask the professionals, who obvs. know their stuff, but I question if they are actually more likely to buy it versus the enthusiast.

But this is where the sales argument comes in - Canon have maintained their lead position for a very long time, and indeed they're consolidating it in some areas. That suggests they know precisely who is buying their products, and what those people broadly want (and are prepared to pay, more importantly).

The iPhone wasn't based around the needs of the professional phone user.

Because there's no such thing?
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godefroyr

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Re: Poll Added: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Does.
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2018, 05:11:28 PM »
Canon is behind in terms of DR and this is no more acceptable, even if their DSLR camera are excellent compromises...

rrcphoto

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Re: Poll Added: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Does.
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2018, 05:16:01 PM »
It seems like the “I switched from canon to _____” confessions are tallying up day by day.

conversely followed by the "I switched back to canon from ____ " confessions.

amorse

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Re: Poll Added: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Does.
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2018, 05:20:27 PM »
Maybe I took a different perspective on the question, but I actually think they do innovate quite a lot.  I took that position because Canon is getting patents from their R&D at what seems to be a weekly pace.  Was Canon not just named in the top 5 for US patent holders last month?  That sounds like a lot of innovation to me.  Some of those technologies have made it into their camera bodies and some have not, but their drive to test and create new technologies is reflected by their rapid patenting activity. 

Do they provide consumers with the best technology they have available for each camera release?  Obviously not - the 6D II is a good example of this - not bad, but they had better technology available which did not make it into the camera.  I think they have tried to carve a different niche (between features which can be delivered at specific  price points and profitability targets) for each camera body which comes with certain sacrifices that maybe don't align with the desires of some vocal users.  Do they hinder one camera line to protect another?  Possibly, but I wouldn't call that a lack of innovation - I'd call it a business decision which they think will make them more money.

Make no mistake, this isn't a defence of Canon's business decisions; but if we're asking "do they innovate" then I think the answer should be yes.

rrcphoto

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Re: Poll Added: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Does.
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2018, 05:20:48 PM »
Canon is behind in terms of DR and this is no more acceptable

less than 1EV difference between the D850 and the 5D Mark IV is no longer acceptable? it's really to the point of practicality a non-issue.

canon has other deficiencies it needs to solve more.

The Fat Fish

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Re: Poll Added: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Does.
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2018, 05:29:31 PM »
Spot on. I saved up in preparation for the 6DII and now there's no way I'd get one. I also don't think the 5DIV is worth the money costing as much as the D850 and A7RIII. Where does this leave me? Not buying Canon.

I am one consumer but I won't be alone in this.

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Re: Poll Added: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Does.
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2018, 05:29:31 PM »

Mikehit

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Re: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Does.
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2018, 05:36:02 PM »

I question if they actually know the enthusiast market. Again recently we saw 'Canon asks professionals what they want in a mirrorless camera'. Canon always seem to ask the professionals, who obvs. know their stuff, but I question if they are actually more likely to buy it versus the enthusiast.


I think that the responses to each Canon release highlights this. Almost every model, the release of the specifications results in 'unexciting' or 'what, no xxxxxxx'. But when people buy it they almost always (bar the 6D2 which was more contentious) say 'not much technologically new but a much better tool and so much fun to use'.
Pros rarely chase the spec sheets - what they want is a camera that makes them want to use it and streamlines the way they work and each Canon model seems to do this and gets a solid following. And at the lower end of the market, the new camera buyer wants to buy a camera 'like the professional uses - the ones I see at the Olympics and Uncle Bill's wedding'. The average user does not read sites like this.

I think things are changing, though. Trial-by-social-media is filled with self-opinionated nobodies who vary from out-and-out trolls to people who know squat about what is being discussed and they drown out the thoughtful considered comments from people worth listening to. And for that reason alone Canon need to start adding a few goodies to their next couple of releases.

RGF

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Re: Poll Added: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Does.
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2018, 05:39:39 PM »
Canon needs to stop dumbing down their proconsumer bodies.  Nikon but their best AF in both the D5 and D500.  Can crippled the 7D M2 (compared to the 1Dx / 1Dx M2).

Same for FPS.

Canon is afraid that the 7D M2 will eat their lunch (i.e., cannablize the 1Dx) but it seems that Nikon is doing that instead.  I hear more about people switching from Canon to Nikon (granted there are more Canon photographers) today than I did in the best.

For a while Canon had a lead but after the problems with the 1D Mark III they became too conservative.

Mikehit

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Re: Poll Added: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Does.
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2018, 05:41:13 PM »
Spot on. I saved up in preparation for the 6DII and now there's no way I'd get one. I also don't think the 5DIV is worth the money costing as much as the D850 and A7RIII. Where does this leave me? Not buying Canon.

I am one consumer but I won't be alone in this.

Fair enough. But out of interest, what feature of the D850 and A7r3 will enable you to take better pictures or make your photography easier.
I really like the look of the D850 as a general tool and would, if I were buying afresh, offer a strong alternative for my Canon gear. But for the things I take it will not really do much the 5D4 cannot - at the ISOs I often use for wildlife, the sensor gives no better image quality. The AF tracking is limited by me, not the camera. And the Canon has an excellent range of lenses. The only thing I might find useful is the in-built focus stacking.

I think it is easy to see a camera as 'better spec' and spend heaps on it only to find out it does not actually affect day-to-day activity that much at all, after spending hundreds (if not thousands) on making the switch.

slclick

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Re: Poll Added: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Does.
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2018, 05:46:00 PM »
Innovated Yes, most Innovated, No. Most dependable, by far.
Not scared of a mirror

rrcphoto

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Re: Poll Added: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Does.
« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2018, 05:49:13 PM »
Canon is afraid that the 7D M2 will eat their lunch (i.e., cannablize the 1Dx)

this is a common theory, yet kind of unproven.

for the 7D Mark II or even the 5D Mark IV to have 1DX AF it would actually require 3 DIGIC chips in a much smaller body.

there could very well be good reasons for not placing 1 series AF on other cameras.

versus the hyperbolic theory that they do it to protect the 1 series.  protect the 1 series against what?

aceflibble

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Re: Poll Added: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Should
« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2018, 06:12:21 PM »
Innovation? Hell no.

But when it comes to lenses they're still often the best overall, and though the bodies are outclassed in many ways, they're still good enough to keep up with most industries and applications.

This is why I have multiple systems. My Fujis are for fun stuff. Phase for absolute top digital quality. Canon as the workhorse. If I were buying all-new today, I'd probably go to Nikon or Sony (probably Sony, because Nikon's grip shapes cramp my hands), but as it stands, switching everything over would cost too much to be worth it for what little I'd gain, especially as it'd mean giving up a few key lenses in addition to the sheer monetary cost.

I don't think anybody would dispute that Sony and Nikon are leagues ahead of Canon in terms of sheer technology, but there's more to working photography than just having the latest function or the broadest dynamic range. It'd sure be nice if Canon would come up with fresher ideas to match the others, but they don't need to as long as they at least maintain a practical system with very good pro support and service.

Fact is, right now every system offers something the others don't, and none of them are bad. It's basically impossible now to buy a dud body or an under-performing lens. Some systems give you more cutting-edge functions, but those same systems are also the ones with the more lacking fundamentals. Some systems may only give you the basics, but they do so at a very high quality and/or backed up with better service.

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Re: Poll Added: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Should
« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2018, 06:12:21 PM »

Jack Jian

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Re: Poll Added: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Does.
« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2018, 06:18:02 PM »
Canon is behind in terms of DR and this is no more acceptable, even if their DSLR camera are excellent compromises...

While it'll be appreciated to have better DR as other's do, it's a nonsense to say "is behind in terms of DR and this is no more acceptable". Everytime I see people say they need more DR, I took it as "I am a very very poor photographer who don't know what I am doing." The only time when I need a high dynamic range is only when I shoot a sun backlit portrait without a flash.

neuroanatomist

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Re: Poll Added: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Does.
« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2018, 06:32:03 PM »
It seems like the “I switched from canon to _____” confessions are tallying up day by day.

[stentorian referee voice] In this corner, wearing the black-and-white colors of truth and weighing in at 130 million points, we have Facts and Data.  And in this corner, wearing the iridescent color of inconsistency and weighing in at some undefined amount of fluff, we have Anecdotes and Opinion.  Let the bout begin!

The thing is...Canon has gained market share over the past few years.  Don't let reality knock you on your ass with a hard uppercut.
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Re: Poll Added: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Does.
« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2018, 06:32:03 PM »