June 25, 2018, 04:05:26 PM

Author Topic: Poll Added: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Should  (Read 28046 times)

unfocused

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *********
  • Posts: 4167
    • Mark Gordon Communications
Re: Poll Added: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Should
« Reply #150 on: February 17, 2018, 01:33:36 PM »
...I open my pictures in ACR, and when I look at the color I might try "Auto" and some of the presets. Almost invariably "As Shot" is the best looking one of the bunch...

Exactly my experience. Canon's RAW "as shot" is remarkable. I rarely have to adjust the color much at all. I shoot indoor sports a lot and even under those conditions, I rarely have to have to make an adjustment. Even with stage lighting and mixed natural and artificial, the out-of-camera colors almost always look better or only need a slight tweak to add or subtract a little warmth to make it more pleasing.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Poll Added: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Should
« Reply #150 on: February 17, 2018, 01:33:36 PM »

privatebydesign

  • Canon EF 800mm f/5.6L IS
  • ***********
  • Posts: 6894
  • Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Re: Poll Added: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Should
« Reply #151 on: February 17, 2018, 02:35:01 PM »
That's funny, I can't stand the Adobe version of 'As Shot', it is world's away from the DPP version. I always make custom profiles for my cameras and they are always much closer to DPP, Canon colors, than Adobe.
Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

stevelee

  • EOS 7D Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 568
Re: Poll Added: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Should
« Reply #152 on: February 17, 2018, 02:38:11 PM »
I shoot indoor sports a lot and even under those conditions, I rarely have to have to make an adjustment.

I live in a small college town. My main video project each year comes in June during the boys' basketball camp. I don't photograph the campers, but I go into arena just after 9 pm when they are wrapping up for the day. Shortly thereafter there is a series of pick up games that include counselors and guests. The counselors include current men's basketball players including the entering freshmen, and alumni who are mostly playing pro ball in Europe. Guests include hopeful prospects, players' little brothers, and, up until things got hectic for him a few years ago, an NBA star and his little brother who was playing for Duke would show up for a night or two. It's a fun occasion and great to see alumni back on the court and to renew acquaintances. A bunch of us old guys will show up and watch, and the head coach, who is not supposed to watch the games, will wander by some nights to say hello.

Where the video comes in is for folks in other parts of the country who want to see the entering freshmen on our court for the first time, playing with and against current players and some pros. Often I will use whatever is my newest camera, in large part to see how well it does, and especially if it is quite new, to learn how to use the camera and to get used to it. I sometimes learn from stupid mistakes, such as when I somehow had accidentally turned on something in the S95 that substituted magenta for the grays. The second night I learned how to turn that off.

There are two main problems to deal with (not counting the head coach if he thinks rival teams will use my videos to scout the new players). There is plenty of light, but they have the "TV lights" turned off. So the color temperature is a little off and seems to miss some frequencies. Also, the school's colors are red and black. Since hardly anybody is in the stands, the camera mostly sees a sea of red seats across the way, and will add a cyan bias to the already wonky color balance. A couple years ago, I shot 4K with my iPhone 6S and used FCP X to edit, zooming in on the action. The iPhone dealt with the color balance rather well.

Last June I used my G7X II, and the color was not that good. I'm not good at color grading in FCP, and I'm not adept enough in Premiere (where I can adjust the colors better) to get the project done in a timely manner. I was not happy with the color, but my intended audience didn't care. They watch to see the players' artistry, not mine, but I'd still like to do a better job. I've wondered about taking a white sheet of paper with me and setting up a custom color balance in the camera.

Since the 6D2 is my new toy this year, I guess I will use it and the STM kit lens. Focus has not been a problem in the past. From my hyperlocal distance calculations, everything in the arena should be in focus in that amount of light anyway. But I've not used a FF camera before on this project, so the math is different, and I might zoom in a little more, lessening the depth of field. Maybe not, though, since the danger of getting in tighter is of missing something. And FCP allows a decent amount of blowup without much loss of quality. But anyhow, it might be good to see how the focus tracking of the 6D2 deals with basketball.

Gino

  • EOS Rebel T7i
  • ****
  • Posts: 149
Re: Poll Added: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Should
« Reply #153 on: February 18, 2018, 12:25:11 PM »
I'd like Canon to give the consumer more sensor options to choose from in the 5D and 1D bodies.  Personally, I'd like to have the 30MP sensor in a 1DX body.  Here is what I envision:

1DX body with 3 different sensors to choose from for those who want the flagship pro body:
* 18-20 MP sensor with the highest FPS and best ISO performance (14-16 FPS)

* 50-60 MP sensor for those who want the best dynamic range and resolution, but are not as concerned with FPS (6-8 FPS)

* 30-36 MP sensor for those who want a compromise between resolution, ISO performance, and FPS (10-12 FPS)

5D body with 3 different sensors to choose from:
* 18-20 MP sensor with the highest FPS and best ISO performance (10-12 FPS)

* 50-60 MP sensor for those who want the best dynamic range and resolution, but are not as concerned with fps (5-6 FPS)

* 30-36 MP sensor for those who want a compromise between resolution, ISO performance, and fps (7-9 FPS)
« Last Edit: February 18, 2018, 12:30:04 PM by Gino »
Canon 1DX & 5D MK IV
100-400L II | 24-70 f/2.8L II | 70-200 f/2.8L IS II | 16-35 f/4L | 70-300L | 24-105L | 100 f/2.8L Macro IS | 50 f/1.4 | 40 f/2.8 STM Pancake | Sigma 35 f/1.4 DG HSM
Speedlite 600EX-RT II

CanonFanBoy

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • ********
  • Posts: 2153
  • Bipolar. When it is happening I don't realize it.
Re: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Does.
« Reply #154 on: February 18, 2018, 01:10:17 PM »
Here's the problem:

Canon responds to the needs of, and builds products differentiated for, two groups: professionals and consumers.

We are enthusiasts.  Canon does not respond to our desires - we're too small a market.

I would argue that the enthusiast market is bigger than the pro market, even if we are to accept that the enthusiast market isn't the consumer market.
5D Mark III, Canon EF 24-70 F/2.8L II, 70-200 f/2.8L IS II, 35 f/1.4L II, 135 f/2L, Streaklight 360ws, Flashpoint XPLOR 600PRO, 26x m42 screw mount lenses adapted to my DSLR. Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark II, Olympus M. Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8 Pro

Don Haines

  • Canon EF 800mm f/5.6L IS
  • ***********
  • Posts: 6869
  • posting cat pictures on the internet since 1986
Re: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Does.
« Reply #155 on: February 18, 2018, 01:26:20 PM »
Here's the problem:

Canon responds to the needs of, and builds products differentiated for, two groups: professionals and consumers.

We are enthusiasts.  Canon does not respond to our desires - we're too small a market.

I would argue that the enthusiast market is bigger than the pro market, even if we are to accept that the enthusiast market isn't the consumer market.

I would agree, plus we must consider that there is so much overlap between pro and enthusiast as to make distinctions meaningless......

For example, at work, I am "pro", and at home I am "enthusiast", but I have better gear at home than at work
« Last Edit: February 18, 2018, 01:33:33 PM by Don Haines »
The best camera is the one in your hands

CanonFanBoy

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • ********
  • Posts: 2153
  • Bipolar. When it is happening I don't realize it.
Re: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Does.
« Reply #156 on: February 18, 2018, 01:55:36 PM »
Here's the problem:

Canon responds to the needs of, and builds products differentiated for, two groups: professionals and consumers.

We are enthusiasts.  Canon does not respond to our desires - we're too small a market.

I would argue that the enthusiast market is bigger than the pro market, even if we are to accept that the enthusiast market isn't the consumer market.

I would agree, plus we must consider that there is so much overlap between pro and enthusiast as to make distinctions meaningless......

For example, at work, I am "pro", and at home I am "enthusiast", but I have better gear at home than at work

I envy you Don. Lockheed Martin here in DFW is advertising a career for a photographer. They require a degree. That leaves me out. :) That will probably be a real nice position for somebody.
5D Mark III, Canon EF 24-70 F/2.8L II, 70-200 f/2.8L IS II, 35 f/1.4L II, 135 f/2L, Streaklight 360ws, Flashpoint XPLOR 600PRO, 26x m42 screw mount lenses adapted to my DSLR. Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark II, Olympus M. Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8 Pro

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Does.
« Reply #156 on: February 18, 2018, 01:55:36 PM »

Orangutan

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • ********
  • Posts: 2112
Re: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Does.
« Reply #157 on: February 18, 2018, 02:10:44 PM »
Here's the problem:

Canon responds to the needs of, and builds products differentiated for, two groups: professionals and consumers.

We are enthusiasts.  Canon does not respond to our desires - we're too small a market.

I would argue that the enthusiast market is bigger than the pro market, even if we are to accept that the enthusiast market isn't the consumer market.

I would agree, plus we must consider that there is so much overlap between pro and enthusiast as to make distinctions meaningless......

For example, at work, I am "pro", and at home I am "enthusiast", but I have better gear at home than at work

I envy you Don. Lockheed Martin here in DFW is advertising a career for a photographer. They require a degree. That leaves me out. :) That will probably be a real nice position for somebody.

You should apply anyway, and tell them why the experience you do have more than compensates for the lack of a degree.  I've seen people get high-level jobs for which they did not have the supposedly required degree.

Talys

  • EOS-1D X Mark II
  • *******
  • Posts: 1666
  • Canon 6DII
Re: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Does.
« Reply #158 on: February 18, 2018, 02:43:01 PM »
You should apply anyway, and tell them why the experience you do have more than compensates for the lack of a degree.  I've seen people get high-level jobs for which they did not have the supposedly required degree.

Couldn't agree more :)

The degree-only requirement is often just to avoid a million applicants.

Especially for a job where portfolio and experience matters a lot more than formal education -- photographers, graphics designers, artists, modellers, software developers, etc -- the formal education is almost always overlooked when the applicant has a stunning portfolio. 

As long as you can get to the interview phase, you'll be fine.  All you need is a good answer to the formal education question, and you're golden.  In my opinion, an online portfolio of some of your best work is very helpful to get to that point.

Architect1776

  • PowerShot G7 X Mark II
  • **
  • Posts: 17
  • Defining the poetics of space through Architecture
Re: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Does.
« Reply #159 on: February 21, 2018, 12:12:02 PM »


Canon used to be first at most things, that's not the case anymore. They built their digital camera business on being first more often than not. Full frame, adoption of CMOS (I think) AF tech, usable DSLR video, price points, sensor tech, liveview, and really getting pros into digital.

That said, I do believe the lens lineup does keep a lot of people in the system.
[/quote]

Actually Canon has not been first very often at all.
The F-1, a most excellent system camera, was contemporary with the Nikon F2 a whole generation behind Nikon. For AF again Canon lagged behind except for the T80 that was not too good. But when they did come out with AF in a serious way they made the entire industry obsolete by over 20 years. As we see all others are trying to catch up even to this day with the EOS system. Mirrorless I believe we will see the same feeling around then a real serious mirrorless camera(s) will be introduced.
Canon still does have firsts that are notable, the AE-1 was a game changer like the EOS system, The DPAF again is a huge game changer as well. But I see Canon watching and looking at others stupid missteps, taking notes then introducing something way out ahead again.
Lawrence Lee Huber, Architect

dak723

  • EOS 5DS R
  • ******
  • Posts: 825
Re: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Does.
« Reply #160 on: February 21, 2018, 03:36:39 PM »


Canon used to be first at most things, that's not the case anymore. They built their digital camera business on being first more often than not. Full frame, adoption of CMOS (I think) AF tech, usable DSLR video, price points, sensor tech, liveview, and really getting pros into digital.

That said, I do believe the lens lineup does keep a lot of people in the system.

Actually Canon has not been first very often at all.
The F-1, a most excellent system camera, was contemporary with the Nikon F2 a whole generation behind Nikon. For AF again Canon lagged behind except for the T80 that was not too good. But when they did come out with AF in a serious way they made the entire industry obsolete by over 20 years. As we see all others are trying to catch up even to this day with the EOS system. Mirrorless I believe we will see the same feeling around then a real serious mirrorless camera(s) will be introduced.
Canon still does have firsts that are notable, the AE-1 was a game changer like the EOS system, The DPAF again is a huge game changer as well. But I see Canon watching and looking at others stupid missteps, taking notes then introducing something way out ahead again.
[/quote]

Yes, as usual people have a perception based on fantasy not reality.  First DSLR with video - Nikon.  First DSLR with live view - Olympus.  First FF DSLR (although Canon was already in development with theirs) - Contax N Digital,  First Pro DSLRs (although very pricey) - Kodak.   First affordable pro camera (not FF) - Nikon.

stevelee

  • EOS 7D Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 568
Re: Poll Added: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Should
« Reply #161 on: February 21, 2018, 04:05:30 PM »
FF is just an artificial convention evolved from using movie film sideways to shoot stills. But it is a handy point of reference for us old guys and how we think of focal lengths.

That's not as weird as measuring small digital camera sensors by TV camera tubes of the 1940s or '50s, though.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Poll Added: Here's Why Canon Doesn't Need to Innovate, But it Should
« Reply #161 on: February 21, 2018, 04:05:30 PM »