June 22, 2018, 12:05:36 AM

Author Topic: Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS I USM  (Read 8666 times)

chrysoberyl

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Re: Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS I USM
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2018, 12:26:51 PM »
Sorry, lovely snake portrait, CHRYOSBERYL!   :-[

No worries!  And thank you!  So you go snaking with a 180 and a 1.4X TC...  How do you get a cottonmouth to hold still?  Or a copperhead?  The last one I rescued would not hold still.

Sorry, off-topic.

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Re: Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS I USM
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2018, 12:26:51 PM »

Zeidora

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Re: Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS I USM
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2018, 07:49:47 PM »
Nancy (or anybody else). Have you compared 300/2.8 (w&w/o extension rings) vs. 180TC at close range of the 300 for IQ? This something that is on my to-do-list.
Agree on the nice snake portrait Chryosberyl! Have only dealt with our local rattlers (Crotalus oregonensis) [and in Europe with Vipera berus], and they are quite friendly as long as you respect their comfort zone.
5D2 full spectrum, 5DsR, a bunch of Zeiss (some other) primes, for documentary natural history, macro, and micro.

danski0224

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Re: Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS I USM
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2018, 08:37:24 PM »
Nancy (or anybody else). Have you compared 300/2.8 (w&w/o extension rings) vs. 180TC at close range of the 300 for IQ? This something that is on my to-do-list.
Agree on the nice snake portrait Chryosberyl! Have only dealt with our local rattlers (Crotalus oregonensis) [and in Europe with Vipera berus], and they are quite friendly as long as you respect their comfort zone.

300 f/2.8 with/without extension tubes?

Some specifics here, about halfway down: https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-300mm-f-2.8-L-IS-USM-Lens-Review.aspx

Also mentioned is the 300mm f/4 (this lens has a macro designation too).

The 300mm f/2.8 lenses (all 3 generations) have been regarded as Canons best as far as sharpness is concerned. Probably better than the 180 macro too, but whether or not the 300 f/2.8 is useful for you is another matter.

A 1.4x teleconverter can also be used on the 300mm (and 180mm) before or after or in-between extension tube(s). Don't forget about the EF Life Size Converter designed for the 50mm Compact macro.

stevelee

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Re: Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS I USM
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2018, 02:14:30 AM »
Given a choice, I'd prefer to be 2.5m from a venomous snake than 2.0m.

Zeidora

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Re: Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS I USM
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2018, 12:13:55 PM »
Danski: I have used the 300/2.8 with extension tubes. Works sufficiently well. IQ is generally assessed at infinity focus (or thereabouts) and close focus plus extension tubes can make IQ worse. So question is, what is better:
- superior lens at suboptimal settings.
- somewhat inferior lens at optimal settings.
Only some testing will resolve that.

Steelee: strike distance is at most body length. I have yet to see a 2 m rattle snake. Story is different say with Australian brown snake ... There I'd run at 10 m.
5D2 full spectrum, 5DsR, a bunch of Zeiss (some other) primes, for documentary natural history, macro, and micro.

tron

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Re: Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS I USM
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2018, 12:38:08 PM »
Currently own a 300/2.8 I and consider replacing it. The Canon II sells for 6K, the current Sigma for 4K, and Tamron is vaporware at present. In that price range, the difference is not sufficient to affect decision on which one to get. One thing I look at is minimum focusing distance: Canon 2 m, Sigma 2.5 m. That is a significant point for me (venomous snake portraits). Not quite ready to pull the plug, I think a Coastal Optics 100 UV will be first.
I think in this kind of case, where you're evidently looking and able to purchase any of them, the Canon is definitely the better buy. IS and weather sealing alone put it way ahead of the Sigma. One has to assume Sigma will rework the 300mm with OS and sealing as part of the Sport range, and Tamron will put out something similar. Until that happens, while I will vouch for Tamron's service and Sigma's quality in general, for specifically 300mm, first-party wins.

Main issues for third party lenses are 1. long term firmware compatibility with newer camera bodies 2. reverse-designed auto-focus protocols usually make AF slightly or markedly slower than OEM lenses.

Sigma has promised to deal with problem #1 by the lens dock for updating firmware. This may also allow better reverse-designed AF protocols to be introduced.

I have several superb non-OEM lenses (2 manual focus: Voigtlander Apo and Zeiss; 1 Sigma Art 35mm f/1.4), but I will say that I don't shoot action with them. My birding lens is OEM, the lowly but reliable (and portable) 400 f/5.6L
So far, Sigma and Tamron have both kept up-to-date with their USB docks and the latest cameras.
The focus is definitely a bigger problem, but I think in Tamron's case it's not too bad. Tamron have elected to nail focus accuracy and consistency, at the cost of some speed. This is my preference, even in sports & wildlife lenses, because being quick is no good if the shot is blurry anyway. I also find the new Tamrons lenses are about as fast as the early-2000s Canons; not as fast as modern ones or the 90s lenses, but fast enough. My usual test for any long lens is to nip down to the nearby bird rehab and try to catch some shots of a resident Lanner falcon they have there. (Born in captivity at a zoo, too tame to survive in the wild, but is allowed to fly freely nearby.) That thing is around 24" all-round and flies at about 160mph; if a lens can keep up with that, it's good enough in my book. So far the Tamron 100-400 and 150-600 G2 have both kept up, even in English overcast light.
Wish I could say the same for Sigma... but then, Sigma's main market these days is portrait & landscape art shooters, so I understand why focus isn't their #1 priority.
As you said: latest cameras. Current latest cameras. You do NOT know what will happen in the future but we DO know that Canon lenses will keep being compatible. And ANYONE can express opinions in a forum. It is up to the person asking to decide for themselves. By the way I do have a paperweight 3rd party lens even from the film era (It didn't work on the newest of my Canon film camera!) True it wasn't Tamron (it was a Tokina ATX28-70 2.8 which by the way was nice optically) but that doesn't change a lot. Do you think I will trust 3rd party completely? I may buy a 3rd party out of necessity only if there is no counterpart in Canon (like Sigma 14mm 1.8 ) but I will do it knowning there is a risk (low but risk never the less)  But there is NO 100% guarantee that 3rd party lenses will fully work with the future Canon cameras.

By the way the issues with Sigma lenses from the film era were that they could not stop down and they worked only fully open with Canon digital cameras.

To sum it up: Anyone can buy 3rd party for any reason (IQ, cost, size, etc) but it's good to do it well-informed of the slight but no zero risks. (And if the cost is significantly lower even in a compatibility case in the far future it will not matter much if the 3rd party vendor has an even better but equally cheap lens).

chrysoberyl

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Re: Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS I USM
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2018, 01:00:56 PM »
Given a choice, I'd prefer to be 2.5m from a venomous snake than 2.0m.

In my experience, rattlers have a smaller personal space than I.  And as Zeidora mentioned, they are pretty well mannered.  A more critical factor is that they are frequently in pairs and well-camouflaged.  I have been guilty of spotting one, easing in for a photo, then noticing the other inches away from my leg.

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Re: Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS I USM
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2018, 01:00:56 PM »

chrysoberyl

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Re: Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS I USM
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2018, 01:12:02 PM »
All, thank you for your perspectives.  The 300 f/2.8L V1 remains the most desirable (EX condition, too, for $3K), but for now I'll hold off on any such purchase.  Just when will Canon update the 300mm f/4L, anyway?  Probably long after ahsanford's 50mm appears.

tron

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Re: Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS I USM
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2018, 02:32:56 PM »
All, thank you for your perspectives.  The 300 f/2.8L V1 remains the most desirable (EX condition, too, for $3K), but for now I'll hold off on any such purchase.  Just when will Canon update the 300mm f/4L, anyway?  Probably long after ahsanford's 50mm appears.
The 300mm f/2.8L IS remains a very good lens.

https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=1079&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=5&API=0&LensComp=249&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=2&APIComp=3

Above is a comparison between the latest Tamron 150-600 G2 at 600mm at f/6.3 with Canon 300mm f/2.8L IS  with an old (v2) Canon teleconverter at f/6.3 to compare equally.

Canon wins. Also, use a  EF2XIII instead the EF2XII of the test and you will see some additional improvement.

Of course you lose the zoom capability. Some may care, some may not (depending on each needs).

chrysoberyl

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Re: Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS I USM
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2018, 03:40:53 PM »
The 300mm f/2.8L IS remains a very good lens.

https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=1079&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=5&API=0&LensComp=249&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=2&APIComp=3

Above is a comparison between the latest Tamron 150-600 G2 at 600mm at f/6.3 with Canon 300mm f/2.8L IS  with an old (v2) Canon teleconverter at f/6.3 to compare equally.

Canon wins. Also, use a  EF2XIII instead the EF2XII of the test and you will see some additional improvement.

Of course you lose the zoom capability. Some may care, some may not (depending on each needs).

Thank you and wow - at 300mm, Canon really wins.  Which it should, at almost 3X the price.  At 600mm, Canon only wins in the center, and not greatly.  I assume that is a TC effect.

Thanks again for very interesting data!

tron

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Re: Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS I USM
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2018, 05:07:21 PM »
The 300mm f/2.8L IS remains a very good lens.

https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=1079&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=5&API=0&LensComp=249&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=2&APIComp=3

Above is a comparison between the latest Tamron 150-600 G2 at 600mm at f/6.3 with Canon 300mm f/2.8L IS  with an old (v2) Canon teleconverter at f/6.3 to compare equally.

Canon wins. Also, use a  EF2XIII instead the EF2XII of the test and you will see some additional improvement.

Of course you lose the zoom capability. Some may care, some may not (depending on each needs).

Thank you and wow - at 300mm, Canon really wins.  Which it should, at almost 3X the price.  At 600mm, Canon only wins in the center, and not greatly.  I assume that is a TC effect.

Thanks again for very interesting data!
Actually Canon at 600mm wins a lot at the corner (less vignetting, more resolution, less chromatic aberrations, but the corner is less noticed in telephoto bird or action shots anyway. Of course Tamron has value for money. Happy comparisons :)

AlanF

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Re: Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS I USM
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2018, 05:11:44 PM »
Sorry, but my usual mantra. TDP is testing only one copy of each lens at different times. My copy of the Sigma 150-600mm C is as sharp at the centre at 600mm f/6.3 as was my now sold 300mm f/2.8 II + 2xTCIII at f/5.6 (and my current 400mm DO II + 1.4xTCIII). At 300mm, they were very similar. You have to test a copy of the lens yourself to see whether it is a good copy or not.
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tron

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Re: Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS I USM
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2018, 05:18:46 PM »
If someone has the ability to do that fine but this is not possible everywhere on the planet so someone must make an educated guess at some point.

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Re: Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS I USM
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2018, 05:18:46 PM »

danski0224

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Re: Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS I USM
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2018, 07:48:43 PM »
Danski: I have used the 300/2.8 with extension tubes. Works sufficiently well. IQ is generally assessed at infinity focus (or thereabouts) and close focus plus extension tubes can make IQ worse. So question is, what is better:
- superior lens at suboptimal settings.
- somewhat inferior lens at optimal settings.
Only some testing will resolve that.

Given the pro nature of the 300mm f/2.8, I wouldn't expect too much of a variance in image quality when comparing results at MFD and at infinity... but I haven't (and won't) test it.

I frequently use a couple of lenses with extension tubes, and there isn't a whole heck of a lot of difference between the new MFD and "infinity" (maybe around 6 feet in my usage), so it would seem that it shouldn't be a problem to move back just a little bit... or add a little bit more extension tube.

Throwing a 1.4x in there is also interesting.

Michael Clark

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Re: Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS I USM
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2018, 05:47:18 PM »
Look into the Sigma 120-300mm f/3.8. The latest version, the 120-300mm F2.8 DG OS HSM | S, is in the 'Sports' category of the 'Global Vision Series' that also include the 'Art' category. Compatibility with the Sigma USB dock goes a long way towards ensuring future firmware upgrades, if needed, won't require a trip to a service center. It's not quite as good as the EF 300mm f/2.8 L IS II, but neither is the original EF 300mm f/2.8 L IS. It is a bit longer and heavier than the EF 300mm f/2.8 L IS II, but then again, so is the original EF 300mm f/2.8 L IS.

It's not quite a prime, but it is a very high quality zoom that holds image quality at all focal lengths and apertures much like the EF 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS II does.

Thanks, Michael.  The 120-300 is at the top of my list and I'll be looking at the links.  How does it perform with Canon III TC's?

I don't think I'd even bother try it considering these results comparing it to the Sigma 150-600 contemporary:
https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=844&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=7&API=2&LensComp=990&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=7&APIComp=0

Yeah, the Sigma 120-300 seems to struggle a bit in that test with a 2X TC (at least a Sigma one which is what Bryan uses to test Sigma lenses). Looking at other Sigma telephoto lenses when tested at TDP used with presumably the same Sigma 2X TC, perhaps the poor performance is more indicative of the Sigma 2X TC than the lenses used with it.

On the other hand, the Sigma with a 1.4X for 420mm at f/5.6 beats the Sigma 150-600mm C at 400mm and f/6.3 fairly handily.

https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=844&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=6&API=3&LensComp=990&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=5&APIComp=0


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Re: Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS I USM
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2018, 05:47:18 PM »