June 22, 2018, 07:09:05 PM

Author Topic: Here are the Results From Our Poll Regarding Camera Innovation Perception at Canon  (Read 6960 times)

scyrene

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I make part of my living with a camera and I need a brand that keeps up.

What does this actually mean? When a new camera model is launched (by any company), your current gear no longer produces usable images??

With the greatest of respect, I am immediately suspicious of anyone who claims to have been taking photographs for decades but has such a short-termist, narrow perspective. Surely after decades, one becomes more equivocal about innovation?
Current equipment: 5Ds, 5D mark III, 50D, 24-105L, MP-E, 100L macro, 500L IS II; 1.4xIII + 2x III extenders; 600EX-RT.
Former equipment includes: 300D; EOS-M, EF-M 18-55, Samyang 14mm f/2.8, EF 35 f/2 IS, 70-200L f/4 non-IS and f/2.8L IS II, 85L II, Sigma 180 macro, 200L 2.8, 400L 5.6

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scyrene

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When you consider that the vast majority of DSLR (and mirrorless) owners leave their camera in the full AUTO mode, that very few have more than 2 lenses, that they don't know about colour science and DR, and that they just don't care.... coupled with the fact that this site targets the fanatics/enthusiasts/geeks and it's members are not representative of the general public (for any brand), any such poll is at best misleading.....

One of the pleasant surprises of the 6D2 is how well the auto settings work in such a wide variety of situations. I don't do the A+ mode, which I gather is what you mean by full AUTO, but in P mode I usually have everything set on auto, and the camera makes really good decisions for the body and the lens. I'm shooting RAW, so some of the settings are not baked into the file, but I need only tweak them a bit, for my tastes, most of the time. I can see why folks would be happy with results from A+ mode for their JPEGs.

And even though I'm lazy most of the time and am not aiming beyond "good enough," I'm still glad to have all the manual controls when I feel a need for or interest in using them. I realize that I am not typical of the general public, and even less so of the denizens of this board.

I will probably get roasted by the forum members for saying this, but most of the time the full auto mode will do as good of a job as most of us will. It’s the more difficult situations where manual intervention (including semi auto modes) where our skills shine......

It shouldn't be controversial! Auto modes are great, and nobody should be embarrassed to use them. I only use manual because of habit, and because I got burned a bit when starting out, when I didn't understand why some shots were good and some sucked, because the camera changed the settings between shots (it was the 300D, and no doubt auto modes have improved a lot since then!). But nobody should consider 'manual only' as a badge of honour.
Current equipment: 5Ds, 5D mark III, 50D, 24-105L, MP-E, 100L macro, 500L IS II; 1.4xIII + 2x III extenders; 600EX-RT.
Former equipment includes: 300D; EOS-M, EF-M 18-55, Samyang 14mm f/2.8, EF 35 f/2 IS, 70-200L f/4 non-IS and f/2.8L IS II, 85L II, Sigma 180 macro, 200L 2.8, 400L 5.6

stevelee

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The point of wisdom is know what you want or need to control or override.

Obviously, most of us are not going to want to take shots of a waterfall at 1/4000 sec. or take head-and-shoulders portraits at f/16 no matter how bright the light is. And if and when we might for some special reason, we know how to do that, too.

And even if you want to set both aperture and shutter speed, you may well still use Auto ISO a lot of the time.

I'd rather concentrate on composition and timing of shots rather than twisting dials needlessly. I'd also like to get better at twisting the dials when needed, and I admit that takes practice.

neuroanatomist

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I will probably get roasted by the forum members for saying this, but most of the time the full auto mode will do as good of a job as most of us will.

My dSLR doesn't have a full auto mode.  :'(
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pwp

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...for working professionals, they can't continue with a brand when their competitors are providing better images to publishers with other brands.  They will switch or be out of work...

You get first prize...for hyperbole.

Sorry, but that's just a ridiculous statement. Tech geeks obsess over features. But professionals value reliability, consistency, durability and predictability. Most professionals readily admit that the camera brand has little to nothing to do with the quality of images. I'd love to know where you got the idea that professional photographers using Canon gear are delivering inferior work.
Exactly. I stopped fussing over features minutia a long time ago. The quality of the images has little to do with the piece of hardware in your hands, it's the brain driven creativity and experience that delivers the keepers.

-pw

scyrene

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I will probably get roasted by the forum members for saying this, but most of the time the full auto mode will do as good of a job as most of us will.

My dSLR doesn't have a full auto mode.  :'(

Showoff ;P
Current equipment: 5Ds, 5D mark III, 50D, 24-105L, MP-E, 100L macro, 500L IS II; 1.4xIII + 2x III extenders; 600EX-RT.
Former equipment includes: 300D; EOS-M, EF-M 18-55, Samyang 14mm f/2.8, EF 35 f/2 IS, 70-200L f/4 non-IS and f/2.8L IS II, 85L II, Sigma 180 macro, 200L 2.8, 400L 5.6

unfocused

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I will probably get roasted by the forum members for saying this, but most of the time the full auto mode will do as good of a job as most of us will. It’s the more difficult situations where manual intervention (including semi auto modes) where our skills shine......

There is a reason why the "P" stands for Professional.

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3dit0r

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I too was surprised when I voted that the DSLR vote was so high, I can’t see that Canon are far behind on that; in which area? If you watch, e.g., Dustin Abbot’s latest video series comparing the 5D mark IV to the Sony A7riii, what’s striking is how incredibly evenly matched they are overall, mildly beating each other in certain areas, but overall, about equal.

Of course, the A7riii is a mirrorless camera, which brings me to the mirrorless innovation vote score. Think about that above Dustin Abbot video comparison in that context and it shows a worrying lack of innovation from Canon on that front - Sony’s mirrorless tech is already head to head with one of Canon’s top DSLRs, and bests it in some ways. The A9 goes head to head with the 1Dx mark II and bests it in some ways. Can Canon claim it has a mirrorless which can compete with its own top DSLRs? This is where the real lack of innovation resides.

To me, areas where Canon lack innovation compared to other brands include: mirrorless tech in general, IBIS, perhaps a slight improvement in DR (but this is over exaggerated on the current generation, I think).

OTOH, DPAF still rules for video AF and their touch screen control on the 5Dmkiv is the best I’ve experienced. Ergonomics are fantastic (weight could be shaved a little though) and menu system is excellent. Lens choice is second to none and colour science is still probably the best in the industry.

neuroanatomist

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Can Canon claim it has a mirrorless which can compete with its own top DSLRs? This is where the real lack of innovation resides.

'Top dSLRs' are generally FF, and Canon doesn't yet offer a FF MILC.  You are suggesting that they can't develop a competitive FF MILC, based on what?  What we do know is that Canon can develop a very competitive APS-C MILC, at least in the minds of buyers. 
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Don Haines

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Can Canon claim it has a mirrorless which can compete with its own top DSLRs? This is where the real lack of innovation resides.

'Top dSLRs' are generally FF, and Canon doesn't yet offer a FF MILC.  You are suggesting that they can't develop a competitive FF MILC, based on what?  What we do know is that Canon can develop a very competitive APS-C MILC, at least in the minds of buyers.

The M series is (obviously) Canon's into the world of mirrorless DSLR cameras. It is a crop camera, it is very successful, and it is a learning camera. By that, I mean that Canon, being a conservative company, is using the M series to learn about what sells and what does not, and how the various features/software works in the real world.

When (not if, WHEN) they come out with a FF camera, they should be able to hit the ground running. I would expect it to be competing with the 5D series, possibly the replacement to the 5DS.... However you look at it, the safe bet is that they will not come out with a FF mirrorless camera until it is BETTER than the mirrored equivalents....

There is a difference between lack of innovation and rushing in before you are ready. This is particularly true when you are dealing with a company that values reliability and stability more than others in the industry.....
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9VIII

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...appear to be listening to consumers and progressively getting better...

It's like a novice athlete, you see massive performance gains in your first year when you start from nothing, then most people give up once the easy gains are gone.

Neil1000

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what if Canon innovation is so poor it promotes camera sales?  eg  1 buys canon, 1 buys Nikon,, 1 buys Sony, 1 buys Fuji and one buys Olympus ,  5 buys BUT Canon guy is frustrated with poor innovation  and buys another and then another new camera .  Suddenly Canon has majority market share from poor innovation with no new buyers in the system.

Just thinking aloud = no data


CanonFanBoy

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I will probably get roasted by the forum members for saying this, but most of the time the full auto mode will do as good of a job as most of us will.

My dSLR doesn't have a full auto mode.  :'(

Neither does my LWRC. ;) Some will get the reference. Some won't.
5D Mark III, Canon EF 24-70 F/2.8L II, 70-200 f/2.8L IS II, 35 f/1.4L II, 135 f/2L, Streaklight 360ws, Flashpoint XPLOR 600PRO, 26x m42 screw mount lenses adapted to my DSLR. Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark II, Olympus M. Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8 Pro

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Talys

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what if Canon innovation is so poor it promotes camera sales?  eg  1 buys canon, 1 buys Nikon,, 1 buys Sony, 1 buys Fuji and one buys Olympus ,  5 buys BUT Canon guy is frustrated with poor innovation  and buys another and then another new camera .  Suddenly Canon has majority market share from poor innovation with no new buyers in the system.

Just thinking aloud = no data

So, the hypothesis is that Canon customers are so frustrated with Canon products, that they buy three times as much hoping for a different result?

That seems like a bit of a stretch :D  More so, because it's Canon, and Canon has relatively slow release cycles.  I mean, if you were a 7D or a 5D or 1D shooter, you'd have to buy 3 of the same camera, hoping the next one was magically better  :o 

I'd actually argue that this is more likely with Sony, than Canon.

The only way it would work with Canon is someone buys an 80D, goes oh shoot, buys a 5D, goes oh shoot, and then buys a 1DX.  I kinda doubt it 8)

Where it DOES happen though is Canon glass.  I've seen a whole lot of people who genuinely want to improve their photography (as a hobby) go through a cycle of buying progressively better lenses, and by the time they're "finished", they own everything from the $50 kit lens to a full set of 2.8 zooms and a handful of L primes -- and everything in between.

CanonFanBoy

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what if Canon innovation is so poor it promotes camera sales?  eg  1 buys canon, 1 buys Nikon,, 1 buys Sony, 1 buys Fuji and one buys Olympus ,  5 buys BUT Canon guy is frustrated with poor innovation  and buys another and then another new camera .  Suddenly Canon has majority market share from poor innovation with no new buyers in the system.

Just thinking aloud = no data

So, the hypothesis is that Canon customers are so frustrated with Canon products, that they buy three times as much hoping for a different result?

That seems like a bit of a stretch :D  More so, because it's Canon, and Canon has relatively slow release cycles.  I mean, if you were a 7D or a 5D or 1D shooter, you'd have to buy 3 of the same camera, hoping the next one was magically better  :o 

I'd actually argue that this is more likely with Sony, than Canon.

The only way it would work with Canon is someone buys an 80D, goes oh shoot, buys a 5D, goes oh shoot, and then buys a 1DX.  I kinda doubt it 8)

Where it DOES happen though is Canon glass.  I've seen a whole lot of people who genuinely want to improve their photography (as a hobby) go through a cycle of buying progressively better lenses, and by the time they're "finished", they own everything from the $50 kit lens to a full set of 2.8 zooms and a handful of L primes -- and everything in between.

I bought a T5i and went, "Oh shoot!" Then bought a 70D six months later and said, "Oh shoot!" At the same time I was buying EFs lenses left and right. Then I said, "Oh shoot! After spending all this money I could have already had my dream camera, the 5D Mark III. So I said, "Oh shoot!" and gave away almost all of that, bought my 5D Mark III and have been happy since.

I think it is the nature of this hobby. I'm just wondering how Talys knows me. Scary.  ;)
5D Mark III, Canon EF 24-70 F/2.8L II, 70-200 f/2.8L IS II, 35 f/1.4L II, 135 f/2L, Streaklight 360ws, Flashpoint XPLOR 600PRO, 26x m42 screw mount lenses adapted to my DSLR. Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark II, Olympus M. Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8 Pro

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