June 21, 2018, 04:28:13 AM

Author Topic: ARE Canon heading down the same track as Kodak  (Read 15032 times)

stevelee

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Re: ARE Canon heading down the same track as Kodak
« Reply #30 on: February 24, 2018, 12:39:35 PM »
Modern refrigerators work well enough, but they're no better than a fridge from 30 years ago (and often worse).

When my grandparents passed away, one of their daughters took the refrigerator. At this point there was a short discussion of how old it is. They got it close to another memorable event, so the answer was the refrigerator was close to 50 years old. It was in perfect working order, and never had to be fixed.

No wonder manufacturers are implementing planned obsolescence.

Occasionally I will read a review on cnet of a really expensive refrigerator. They will go through all the features, bells, whistles, internet connections, TV screen, Bluetooth, grocery list maker, etc., etc., and conclude that it works absolutely great for everything except keeping food cold.

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Re: ARE Canon heading down the same track as Kodak
« Reply #30 on: February 24, 2018, 12:39:35 PM »

scyrene

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Re: ARE Canon heading down the same track as Kodak
« Reply #31 on: February 24, 2018, 12:45:14 PM »
Modern refrigerators work well enough, but they're no better than a fridge from 30 years ago (and often worse).

When my grandparents passed away, one of their daughters took the refrigerator. At this point there was a short discussion of how old it is. They got it close to another memorable event, so the answer was the refrigerator was close to 50 years old. It was in perfect working order, and never had to be fixed.

No wonder manufacturers are implementing planned obsolescence.

Occasionally I will read a review on cnet of a really expensive refrigerator. They will go through all the features, bells, whistles, internet connections, TV screen, Bluetooth, grocery list maker, etc., etc., and conclude that it works absolutely great for everything except keeping food cold.

Fwiw we upgraded our refrigerator just over a year ago and find food lasts a lot longer in there than in the one(s) it replaced. Certainly, some new items have gimmicks attached (internet-connected fridges are still ridiculous), but that is not to say in general progress isn't being made. You always had to use common sense when making purchases, and that is still true.
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old-pr-pix

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Re: ARE Canon heading down the same track as Kodak
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2018, 12:55:37 PM »
If someone asks you to show them that great photo you took of 'Aunt Millie' last year can you call it up on the back of your camera?  No, well maybe that's a problem.

Why? If there are more comfortable devices to show images - smartphones, tablets, TVs, computers -, devices you always have at hand, why should you use your camera?
Indeed... my point is that many people have reached this same conclusion and have stopped using their 'camera' preferring their smart phone instead.  I anticipate general market consumer level sales of ILC's will continue to erode.  Enthusiasts and pros will continue to use dSLR's and ML and argue amongst themselves which is better; but the millions of consumers who fund the industry are going away. 

Smartphones are an equally disruptive technology.  Not scientific, but big family gatherings have transitioned from Instamatics and disposable cameras to digital P&S, perhaps a few Rebels, now to smartphones.  Those who invested in P&S and Rebels have mostly abandoned them for the ever-present smartphone.  Where once 4x6 snapshots were passed around, now it is everyone sharing photos on their phones.

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Talys

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Re: ARE Canon heading down the same track as Kodak
« Reply #33 on: February 24, 2018, 01:35:48 PM »
Modern refrigerators work well enough, but they're no better than a fridge from 30 years ago (and often worse).

When my grandparents passed away, one of their daughters took the refrigerator. At this point there was a short discussion of how old it is. They got it close to another memorable event, so the answer was the refrigerator was close to 50 years old. It was in perfect working order, and never had to be fixed.

No wonder manufacturers are implementing planned obsolescence.

Occasionally I will read a review on cnet of a really expensive refrigerator. They will go through all the features, bells, whistles, internet connections, TV screen, Bluetooth, grocery list maker, etc., etc., and conclude that it works absolutely great for everything except keeping food cold.

Fwiw we upgraded our refrigerator just over a year ago and find food lasts a lot longer in there than in the one(s) it replaced. Certainly, some new items have gimmicks attached (internet-connected fridges are still ridiculous), but that is not to say in general progress isn't being made. You always had to use common sense when making purchases, and that is still true.

We actually bought a super-duper refrigerator about a year ago.  It cost more than brand new 1DXII, and I have to say, it's a joy to use.

You can set the temperature and humidity individually for each section, including flex compartments that can go between deep freeze and wine cooler.  It also has a ton of LED lights inside (including on the sides of the fridge), so that there are no dark corners and it is very thoughtfully designed so that you don't end up with stuff at the back of the fridge that you can't see, forget about, and spoils.

Practically, we just find that we have a cleaner fridge; but also, vegetables last a lot longer, because they're inside their own temperature/humidity controlled compartment instead of the main fridge.  There are a whole bunch of other very useful features, as well; too many to list, but suffice it to say, the design is very intelligent, and the feel of the build quality it is like the difference between it and our old fridge is like going from a 17-55 STM to a 24-70L.

Also, measuring the current draw, it uses considerably less power than our old fridge, which is impressive considering that its a little bigger on the outside, and quite a bit larger on the inside.

I don't expect that it will last 50 years, though.  I'd be thrilled if it lasted 15.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2018, 01:41:17 PM by Talys »

Orangutan

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Re: ARE Canon heading down the same track as Kodak
« Reply #34 on: February 24, 2018, 01:42:00 PM »
Modern refrigerators work well enough, but they're no better than a fridge from 30 years ago (and often worse).

When my grandparents passed away, one of their daughters took the refrigerator. At this point there was a short discussion of how old it is. They got it close to another memorable event, so the answer was the refrigerator was close to 50 years old. It was in perfect working order, and never had to be fixed.

No wonder manufacturers are implementing planned obsolescence.

Occasionally I will read a review on cnet of a really expensive refrigerator. They will go through all the features, bells, whistles, internet connections, TV screen, Bluetooth, grocery list maker, etc., etc., and conclude that it works absolutely great for everything except keeping food cold.

Fwiw we upgraded our refrigerator just over a year ago and find food lasts a lot longer in there than in the one(s) it replaced. Certainly, some new items have gimmicks attached (internet-connected fridges are still ridiculous), but that is not to say in general progress isn't being made. You always had to use common sense when making purchases, and that is still true.

We actually bought a super-duper refrigerator about a year ago.  It cost more than brand new 1DXII, and I have to say, it's a joy to use.

You can set the temperature and humidity individually for each section, including flex compartments that can go between deep freeze and wine cooler.  It also has a ton of LED lights inside (including on the sides of the fridge), so that there are no dark corners and it is very thoughtfully designed so that you don't end up with stuff at the back of the fridge that you can't see, forget about, and spoils.

Practically, we just find that we have a cleaner fridge; but also, vegetables last a lot longer, because they're inside their own temperature/humidity controlled compartment instead of the main fridge. 

Also, measuring the current draw, it uses considerably less power than our old fridge, which is impressive considering that its quite a bit larger.

I don't expect that it will last 50 years, though.  I'd be thrilled if it lasted 15.

So you're saying that Canon is so far behind in cutting-edge refrigerator tech, that they'd better release a killer product next year, or they're doomed! 

At least that's what understood you to say... :) :P

LDS

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Re: ARE Canon heading down the same track as Kodak
« Reply #35 on: February 24, 2018, 02:57:28 PM »
their smart phone instead.  I anticipate general market consumer level sales of ILC's will continue to erode.  Enthusiasts and pros will continue to use dSLR's and ML and argue amongst themselves which is better; but the millions of consumers who fund the industry are going away. 

We are talking about two separate tasks. Photography has always been made by two separate processes, the image taking one, and the storage/display/sharing one. If to watch a daguerreotype you would have needed a clusmy camera, I don't think they would have been a success. 

The smartphone can cover both of them, obviously, but still with some limitations. The storage/sharing part is not fully covered by smartphones, because local space could still be limited, especially in budget models, and devices may break, be lost, stolen or replaced - not many consumers use microSD cards in their phones, and not all model can use them, the most notable example being iPhones, and still, if the device is lost or stolen you lose everything.

Hence online storage and sharing, especially on on social sites is important for consumers, as they also work as a "backup".

To display photos to a larger audience, TVs or monitors are still better than phones (although they can be the source of the images), and you won't mail your phone to your aunt.

Just, Kodak had really no presence in any of these markets, and in many ways it probably made more money from prints than films - and not surprisingly negative films, and its prints, survived past reversal ones, because there is still some money coming from them.

Cameras are not really suited to be display devices, even for those who will keep on using ILCs, and you'll need more functions to publish images than to access them for display.

It's just like when audio recordings became easily available, the music performance and most of its fruition became separate processes using different devices. Today you don't need a piano in your house so you and your hosts can play and sing, or have people bring their instruments to listen to some music. And no one thought to add recording capabilities to them just so you could bring around your piano and use it to play a recording.

Smartphones are an equally disruptive technology.  Not scientific, but big family gatherings have transitioned from Instamatics and disposable cameras to digital P&S, perhaps a few Rebels, now to smartphones.

How do you explain the Fujifilm Instax sales? Nor photo printers disappeared yet. It looks sometimes a physical artifact still has some value.

And for important events, i.e. weddings, if the hired photographer showed up with a smartphone only I guess he or she would be lynched, and finished by the bride with the wedding cake knife...  ;D

It's just a matter of convenience - most people never liked cameras or photography, they just wanted the images. They will use the easiest tool to obtain them. Just, when images becomes really important for any reason, they will pay homage, maybe unconsciously, to skill, performance and quality.

RGF

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Re: ARE Canon heading down the same track as Kodak
« Reply #36 on: February 24, 2018, 03:12:27 PM »
YAPODFC.  ::)

Film to digital = paradigm shift

ILC with mirror to ILC without mirror = different flavor of same product

Good point.

It used to be a film camera was a box to hold film flat and a bit of electronics for the shutter, etc.

Now ILC electronics is based upon the sensor.  How the viewfinder works if minor.

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Re: ARE Canon heading down the same track as Kodak
« Reply #36 on: February 24, 2018, 03:12:27 PM »

RGF

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Re: ARE Canon heading down the same track as Kodak
« Reply #37 on: February 24, 2018, 03:15:20 PM »


The A7RIII may very well be the best camera that Sony will ever produce, and if it is that means everyone who buys one is getting their money's worth, but it also means as soon as everyone who wants a high tech mirrorless body has the A7RIII, Sony will have completely saturated their market potential.

You must a very clear crystal ball.  Not sure what the future holds for Sony, but I suspect that the A7R IV (or what it is called) will top the A7 RIII (at least in some important ways).

Talys

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Re: ARE Canon heading down the same track as Kodak
« Reply #38 on: February 24, 2018, 04:12:38 PM »
So you're saying that Canon is so far behind in cutting-edge refrigerator tech, that they'd better release a killer product next year, or they're doomed! 

At least that's what understood you to say... :) :P

Absolutely.  Canon needs crisper and freezer tech.  ;D  :-X

Don Haines

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Re: ARE Canon heading down the same track as Kodak
« Reply #39 on: February 24, 2018, 04:27:18 PM »
So you're saying that Canon is so far behind in cutting-edge refrigerator tech, that they'd better release a killer product next year, or they're doomed! 

At least that's what understood you to say... :) :P

Absolutely.  Canon needs crisper and freezer tech.  ;D  :-X
I just walked over to my fridge, which is mirrorless and NOT made by canon, got a beer, and will sit back and enjoy the show. Canons lack of ability to come out with a mirrorless fridge means that Canon is DOOMED!!!!
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old-pr-pix

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Re: ARE Canon heading down the same track as Kodak
« Reply #40 on: February 24, 2018, 04:45:25 PM »
How do you explain the Fujifilm Instax sales? Nor photo printers disappeared yet. It looks sometimes a physical artifact still has some value...
Fuji expected to sell 7.5 million Instax cameras in 2017... basically as a fashion accessory.  In its early going Instax felt the same impact as other film cameras from the digital 'revolution.'  The product was almost cancelled by Fuji.  Here is Fuji's explanation:  http://www.fujifilm.com/innovation/achievements/instax/  Although Amazon lists it as a Best Seller, only once have I noticed someone using one.

As to weddings, not long ago my son shot one where all the couple wanted was a thumb drive to show images on their 55" TV.  No prints at all in initial contract.  (Yes, he used dSLRs, not his smartphone!)  Of course there is still value in physical print copies; just not as much as we always used to assume.
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yungfat

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Re: ARE Canon heading down the same track as Kodak
« Reply #41 on: February 24, 2018, 05:12:22 PM »
Canon still make good camera that many people still buying. As a market leader in digital imaging, they are doing what they are suppose to grow the overall business such as introduce more products range and pushing the higher end equipment.

Sony as a new comer, if they are offering anything similar with what Canon offering, do you think they can overtake Nikon today?

Therefore, that is totally different position between Canon, Nikon & Sony. As many mentioned, Nikon without much choice now, so they have to include everything they could into D850 improve their market share. Which is very similar as what they did with D700.

The competition of the technology will never end, consumer is the one who benefit.

Agreed with Sony might have some issue if they next gen of camera do not have revolutions as their current a9 & a7r3.

I have read a lots of review in past few years, most of the reviewers are leaning towards Nikon (and now Sony). To their eye, Canon do not even made a good camera. How many reviewer really mentioned and complaint about the single card in a7r2? They all talking about dynamic range, dynamic range and dynamic range. Is mirrorless really lighter after puting on a pro lens?

So the argument will never end and many people is thinking Sony will going to be the market leader after launching a7r3 and a9.

Only time will tell.

Cheers~

LDS

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Re: ARE Canon heading down the same track as Kodak
« Reply #42 on: February 24, 2018, 05:29:12 PM »
Although Amazon lists it as a Best Seller, only once have I noticed someone using one.

It depends on where and who you look at. For the matter, I've never seem people birding with a smartphone...


to show images on their 55" TV.

Which confirms what I've said - when you have better and handier display devices you'll choose the one that suits your needs best - and it's useless to cram those features in devices which are not suited for the task. A camera is great to take images, but not to show them, and a 55" TV is better than a smartphone, in some situations.

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Re: ARE Canon heading down the same track as Kodak
« Reply #42 on: February 24, 2018, 05:29:12 PM »

Talys

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Re: ARE Canon heading down the same track as Kodak
« Reply #43 on: February 24, 2018, 07:37:07 PM »
So you're saying that Canon is so far behind in cutting-edge refrigerator tech, that they'd better release a killer product next year, or they're doomed! 

At least that's what understood you to say... :) :P

Absolutely.  Canon needs crisper and freezer tech.  ;D  :-X
I just walked over to my fridge, which is mirrorless and NOT made by canon, got a beer, and will sit back and enjoy the show. Canons lack of ability to come out with a mirrorless fridge means that Canon is DOOMED!!!!

LOL +1   :D

Antono Refa

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Re: ARE Canon heading down the same track as Kodak
« Reply #44 on: February 25, 2018, 12:10:26 AM »
I have read a lots of review in past few years, most of the reviewers are leaning towards Nikon (and now Sony). To their eye, Canon do not even made a good camera. How many reviewer really mentioned and complaint about the single card in a7r2? They all talking about dynamic range, dynamic range and dynamic range. Is mirrorless really lighter after putting on a pro lens?

Before Canon released the 5DS, all they were talking about was resolution, dynamic range, and 4K.

It is the reviewers' nature to focus on differentiating features, as much as it is the infantile's and troll's nature to whine.

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Re: ARE Canon heading down the same track as Kodak
« Reply #44 on: February 25, 2018, 12:10:26 AM »