June 24, 2018, 07:22:58 AM

Author Topic: Leaked: Canon EOS M50 Image & Specifications  (Read 36327 times)

rrcphoto

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Re: Leaked: Canon EOS M50 Image & Specifications
« Reply #45 on: February 20, 2018, 03:47:09 PM »
The first image and specifications for the Canon EOS M50 have leaked out.

it will be interesting to see the rest of the images, specifically of the back side and top.

it appears that canon has adjusted the ergonomics for this to be a video -> stills versus a stills-> video bolt on if you note the location of the record button.

with what appears to be lower level ergonomics this sits kind of under an M6 in terms of ergonomic functionality however with an included EVF and variable angle display for video.

of course the big news is possibly DIGIC 8 bringing hopefully efficient 4k video to Canon ILC's.  it has to be more efficient than the 5D Mark IV etc simply because it's SD card.

My guess is that they released this to get the EF-M line up to include 4k after Fuji seems to be doing great things in that market, and more than one whisper said that Canon / Nikon are more worried about Fuji than Sony.

Why it's not the M5 Mark II? probably because it' *only* has really minor updates from the M5 outside of video and CR3 format, and no new sensor generation.

If a new sensor generation is coming out this year, it makes sense to hold off the M5 update, IMO.

Yup- including 4K is a must now

it's not a must on every camera.  that's totally biased to what you prefer a camera to have.

they however, need choice.


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Re: Leaked: Canon EOS M50 Image & Specifications
« Reply #45 on: February 20, 2018, 03:47:09 PM »

Talys

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Re: Leaked: Canon EOS M50 Image & Specifications
« Reply #46 on: February 20, 2018, 04:03:37 PM »
Yup- including 4K is a must now

it's not a must on every camera.  that's totally biased to what you prefer a camera to have.

they however, need choice.

I think it's a great way to differentiate products and stratify an offering with different features/price points.  Canon has proven that it's capable of making good profits while having a bazillion SKUs that are all tightly clustered in price, so why not?

I definitely do not think 4k has to be on every camera, though going forward, it will probably be on every Canon flagship.

Drew.bowser

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Re: Leaked: Canon EOS M50 Image & Specifications
« Reply #47 on: February 20, 2018, 04:21:00 PM »
is this a CR3? Im in the market for a mirrorless 4k body (literally about to click buy on an adapted a6300) - This really changes my plans since I have a 5D4 and 7D2.

LDS

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Re: Leaked: Canon EOS M50 Image & Specifications
« Reply #48 on: February 20, 2018, 04:34:03 PM »
I wonder if the CR3 format is to bring out the data from both sides of the dual-pixel design?

IMHO they already do. If Z = X + Y, and you store Z and X, Y is simply Z - X. If most of the time you use just Z, it's faster to save it than recomputing it every time, and compute Y only when you need it. Unless Canon now can obtain more info from dual pixel design which cannot be stored as simply as above.

From what I understood, C-RAW looks a format where demosaicing (RAW "development") and some other processing ("digital lens optimizer") happens in-camera. It could save space without lossy compression, albeit you lose the original data and have to accept the camera processing algorithms - if so, still better than a JPEG or any other lossy algorithm.

exquisitor

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Re: Leaked: Canon EOS M50 Image & Specifications
« Reply #49 on: February 20, 2018, 04:39:39 PM »
is this a CR3? Im in the market for a mirrorless 4k body (literally about to click buy on an adapted a6300) - This really changes my plans since I have a 5D4 and 7D2.

I suppose, when it's leaked, than it is pretty sure thing. Taking in account the preorder date, we should expect the camera this week or Monday the latest.
Still CR guy sure knows better...

Don Haines

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Re: Leaked: Canon EOS M50 Image & Specifications
« Reply #50 on: February 20, 2018, 04:56:14 PM »
I wonder if the CR3 format is to bring out the data from both sides of the dual-pixel design?

IMHO they already do. If Z = X + Y, and you store Z and X, Y is simply Z - X. If most of the time you use just Z, it's faster to save it than recomputing it every time, and compute Y only when you need it. Unless Canon now can obtain more info from dual pixel design which cannot be stored as simply as above.

From what I understood, C-RAW looks a format where demosaicing (RAW "development") and some other processing ("digital lens optimizer") happens in-camera. It could save space without lossy compression, albeit you lose the original data and have to accept the camera processing algorithms - if so, still better than a JPEG or any other lossy algorithm.

I’m sure they have a good reason..... we won’t know until the release, so now is the time for wild speculation 😀
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x-vision

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Re: Leaked: Canon EOS M50 Image & Specifications
« Reply #51 on: February 20, 2018, 04:59:35 PM »
Notice the ISO sensitivity: 100-25600 (51200 extended).
For comparison, the 80D has 100-16000 (25600 extended).

So, this new mirrorless has a full stop higher ISO than the 80D.

This could be due to better noise reduction from the newer (and presumably more powerful) Digic-8 processor.
But could it also mean a newer/better sensor ??

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Re: Leaked: Canon EOS M50 Image & Specifications
« Reply #51 on: February 20, 2018, 04:59:35 PM »

tron

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Re: Leaked: Canon EOS M50 Image & Specifications
« Reply #52 on: February 20, 2018, 05:12:38 PM »
Notice the ISO sensitivity: 100-25600 (51200 extended).
For comparison, the 80D has 100-16000 (25600 extended).

So, this new mirrorless has a full stop higher ISO than the 80D.

This could be due to better noise reduction from the newer (and presumably more powerful) Digic-8 processor.
But could it also mean a newer/better sensor ??
16000->25600 native is 2/3s of a stop. Even so a 2/3 stop improvement would be true only if the 25600 of the new camera was similar to the 16000 of the 80D. Or the difference could be just a noisier picture at 25600. Or somewhere in between like a 1/3 stop of improvement which is more realistic. Anyway we have to wait to see that.

HarryFilm

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Re: Leaked: Canon EOS M50 Image & Specifications
« Reply #53 on: February 20, 2018, 05:43:18 PM »
CR3 RAW format is the single most fascinating thing about this camera.

I agree.

CR2 has been slowly evolving with minor changes forever.... To go to a new format must mean a big change, and the two things that come to mind is that it must be either be related to dual pixel technology, or it means that the RAW files have gone from 14 to 16 bit..... or possibly both!

If it is for 16 bits, then it would imply a significant jump in DR...... possibly through different gains on each half of a dual-pixel site....

most interesting, most interesting indeed!

I hope it's 16-bit RAW. Canon have been lagging for years in DR compared to Sony and Nikon, and it's hard to imagine that their engineers simply couldn't come up with any solution - after all, they routinely rank #1 year after year in patent filing. The more reasonable answer is that they've had thoroughly tested and improved DR sensor tech for a while and just wanted to wait to integrate it with DPAF sensor architecture.

A universal 16 bit RAW format for APS-C and full-frame cameras will be a serious leg up on the competition. If it's true, that means the guys at Canon must have figured out a way to practically eliminate read noise and dark current. The small full well capacity for a 24MP APS-C photodiode means that the SNR needs to be ridiculously high to discern 16 bits of detail.

On a technical basis there is at least 32-bit processing on the ARM-based cores of the DIGIC-series of processors (which tend to have an ARM-based Coretex-R4 core) and at a MERE 25 MHz to 32 MHz clock speed for the earlier DIGICs, the amount of coding shenanigans that are/were needed to pull off Canon's fancy Stills and Video compression stunts is/was mind-boggling. I'm used to using 700 MHz to 1.5 GHz 64-bit processors on my embedded projects, so I can be lazy and quickly code for 32-bits per channel DSP-like downsampling to 16-bits per colour channel.

Some of the newer DIGIC cores may go up to 75 MHz or even 100+ Mhz or even up to 1.4 GHz, but I haven't checked yet so it is ENTIRELY POSSIBLE that 16-bits per colour channel MAY be possible in any newer Canon camera.

« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 05:49:23 PM by HarryFilm »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Leaked: Canon EOS M50 Image & Specifications
« Reply #54 on: February 20, 2018, 05:49:04 PM »
Where's the codec, Harry?  Where is Canon's new medium format camera that looks like a big 1D X II, Harry?
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HarryFilm

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Re: Leaked: Canon EOS M50 Image & Specifications
« Reply #55 on: February 20, 2018, 05:58:54 PM »
Where's the codec, Harry?  Where is Canon's new medium format camera that looks like a big 1D X II, Harry?

Got my CODEC running on a 7D mark2 right now - Works great! Does 16-bit (kinda faked since the 7D ADC's don't actually go that high), 14-bit, 12-bit, 10-bit, 8-bit 4:4:4, 4:2:2, 4:1:1 and 4:2:0 colour sampling at various bit-rates at various fps. 

I bricked the 7D a few times which means back to the test bench and a forced BIOS re-upload. Taking apart and putting back together a 7D takes about 4 hours each time! I had the same problem Magic Lantern did with their BIOS hook-in strategy.

I will get the 5D mk3/4 version up next and then publicly release the codec on GitHub for the mentioned cameras. The 1Dx series, C200, C300, C500, C700 will come later once I am sure I don't/can't brick our $10,000+ camera systems!

It's much cheaper to test/brick/destroy a 7D, 6D and 5D than a $40,000+ C700!

--- I should note that I actually DON'T MIND bricking the C700 since I can take apart that one for a forced BIOS re-upload A LOT EASIER than the 7D to 1D series!

« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 06:08:20 PM by HarryFilm »

Don Haines

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Re: Leaked: Canon EOS M50 Image & Specifications
« Reply #56 on: February 20, 2018, 06:01:59 PM »
CR3 RAW format is the single most fascinating thing about this camera.

I agree.

CR2 has been slowly evolving with minor changes forever.... To go to a new format must mean a big change, and the two things that come to mind is that it must be either be related to dual pixel technology, or it means that the RAW files have gone from 14 to 16 bit..... or possibly both!

If it is for 16 bits, then it would imply a significant jump in DR...... possibly through different gains on each half of a dual-pixel site....

most interesting, most interesting indeed!

I hope it's 16-bit RAW. Canon have been lagging for years in DR compared to Sony and Nikon, and it's hard to imagine that their engineers simply couldn't come up with any solution - after all, they routinely rank #1 year after year in patent filing. The more reasonable answer is that they've had thoroughly tested and improved DR sensor tech for a while and just wanted to wait to integrate it with DPAF sensor architecture.

A universal 16 bit RAW format for APS-C and full-frame cameras will be a serious leg up on the competition. If it's true, that means the guys at Canon must have figured out a way to practically eliminate read noise and dark current. The small full well capacity for a 24MP APS-C photodiode means that the SNR needs to be ridiculously high to discern 16 bits of detail.

Time will tell what is going on here, but the supposition is that there is also a new sensor.....

One possibility is that during AF the dual pixels work as normal, and for the exposure the gain of one side is changed by 3 or 4 stops, both sides are recorded, and the CR3 file can be used to create a final image with significantly higher DR. Also, it states that the C-Raw files are 40 percent smaller than the CR3 files and about the same size as the old RAW files....

I’m sure the speculation is much more exciting than what reality will deliver.... and it’s more fun 😀
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ahsanford

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Re: Leaked: Canon EOS M50 Image & Specifications
« Reply #57 on: February 20, 2018, 06:24:14 PM »

Whoa, 16-bit stills will be first rolled out to out to a mid-level crop camera?  Isn't this a heretofore only available in medium format sort of spec?

If so, why on earth would Canon first launch this in the middle of the crop portfolio?  If/when this ever happens at Canon, it would be an exclusive 1-series level feature (perhaps a rebirth of the 1Ds3 'pure IQ, screw the throughput' sort of product), would it not? 

- A

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Re: Leaked: Canon EOS M50 Image & Specifications
« Reply #57 on: February 20, 2018, 06:24:14 PM »

ritholtz

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Re: Leaked: Canon EOS M50 Image & Specifications
« Reply #58 on: February 20, 2018, 06:25:06 PM »
Notice the ISO sensitivity: 100-25600 (51200 extended).
For comparison, the 80D has 100-16000 (25600 extended).

So, this new mirrorless has a full stop higher ISO than the 80D.

This could be due to better noise reduction from the newer (and presumably more powerful) Digic-8 processor.
But could it also mean a newer/better sensor ??
80d has max iso 16000 with digic 6. Digic 7 bumped it to 25600. All latest rebels and sl2 are with iso 25600.
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Quarkcharmed

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Re: Leaked: Canon EOS M50 Image & Specifications
« Reply #59 on: February 20, 2018, 06:31:33 PM »
I wish it had a sensor like 5D MkIV in terms of DR (it's ok if it's 24.1Mp vs 30.1), the best Canon sensor so far. It'd be a killer as a lightweight landscape photo kit.

Also, will it have a tilt screen, or better an articulated screen?

DR/sensor, GPS and WiFi are major factors for me
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Re: Leaked: Canon EOS M50 Image & Specifications
« Reply #59 on: February 20, 2018, 06:31:33 PM »