June 21, 2018, 04:29:57 PM

Author Topic: Sony a7R3 Review and 5D Mark IV Comparisons | Dustin  (Read 15272 times)

dak723

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Re: Sony a7R3 Review and 5D Mark IV Comparisons | Dustin
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2018, 01:52:20 PM »
He's not writing a scientific paper, he's offering advice based on his experience, and I shall take that advice into consideration in my choice of gear suitable for my purposes.

I had a mirrorless and DSLR at the same time from about 2014 thru 2016 and while I did not do any scientific testing on the matter, I believe the mirrorless had significantly bigger dust issues, although none of the issues were serious enough so that the next time I turned the camera on or off, the dust was removed with the dust removal shake. 

Having just returned from taking pics outside in the bright sunshine (and snow), the scenes were quite difficult to see thru the EVF.  While I enjoy my mirrorless cameras, there are shortcomings in certain conditions. 

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Re: Sony a7R3 Review and 5D Mark IV Comparisons | Dustin
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2018, 01:52:20 PM »

tron

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Re: Sony a7R3 Review and 5D Mark IV Comparisons | Dustin
« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2018, 04:35:44 PM »
Play the video from 8:50 to 10:35. Starts with: "A huge thing that that nobody talks about that much is sensor dust .....
My inclination is to take seriously a reviewer who sees an actual phenomenon and describes it in depth.

Yeah dust can be a problem if you don't know what you are doing or don't take proper precautions. This is an image from my 5D in 2006 (the original) my 2nd DSLR, first day of a 2 week trip got a ton of dust from changing lenses in windy conditions by the water. The 5D wasn't a mirrorless camera, I didn't bring a rocket blower so I had to do a ton of spotting. Dust can get in any camera. I've used all sorts of Canon DSLRs and now 3 different Sonys and dust isn't any more or any less of an issue for me. I like that I can see the sensor now.

The Canon Integrated Cleaning System was introduced in 2006 - http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/technical/eos_integrated_cleaning_system.do
Your original 5D, introduced in 2005, predated ICS. Further, the fluorine coating to repel dust wasn't introduced until the 5DII, and there have been subsequent modifications to prevent dust sticking. You original 5D is not a good example to cite for dust on a sensor since there have been tons of improvements in the last 13 years.

Perhaps, but it is certainly appropriate when discussing how much influence the presence of a mirror has on protecting a sensor, or the inset of a sensor within the body for that matter.

Those later improvements, which made a significant difference, are not unique to SLR.
Back then I avoided 5D because it had the nickname dust magnet. This has changed completely with 40D, 5DII, etc

bod

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Re: Sony a7R3 Review and 5D Mark IV Comparisons | Dustin
« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2018, 06:10:39 PM »
Dustin thanks for another one of your excellent reviews which are always informative and accessible to the reader. Like you I have owned the EOS M for some time for the same reason as you and like many on the forum I am awaiting a good FF mirrorless from Canon. As you have noted in several reviews a key feature is a really good EVF, in my case because a high percentage of my lenses are MF and I like the process of MF. I also like using tilt/shift lenses and again an EVF would seem to be a potentially very helpful tool. Your review of the a7R3 is interesting not only because of the EVF but the AF performance. I was interested to learn more of its eye AF feature performance and the improved frame rate and buffer capacity because if I buy a FF mirrorless I want it to be widely useable in different photographic scenarios. Whilst my first choice has been and remains to wait for a Canon FF mirrorless if one does not materialise soon, getting the a7R3 when there is a good $ deal on offer will be an option.

Can I ask for more explanation as to how the zoom feature works in the EVF? Such as:
1) How do you activate the zoom/what controls do you use?
2) What settings are there to control the zoom feature (e.g. zoom extent)?
3) After you take a shot, what happens next time? Does the EVF retain the zoom or must it be reactivated again using the same sequence?
4) What point/region does the EVF zoom about?
5) Can you move the zoom region by touch dragging on the viewfinder?
6) Is there any "auto zoom" type feature like the EOS M5 has with native EFM lenses. For example can you set the body up to zoom automatically when you half press the shutter button?

I appreciate any info that you can provide on this. Thanks again. Phil

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Re: Sony a7R3 Review and 5D Mark IV Comparisons | Dustin
« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2018, 10:08:21 PM »
That is an excellent review.  So much info!

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Re: Sony a7R3 Review and 5D Mark IV Comparisons | Dustin
« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2018, 09:54:28 AM »
Dustin,

Thanks for such a thorough and well-written review.  I'm curious: what do you find as the autofocus speed difference between adapted and native lens on A7R3 using the MC-11?

Thanks!

The a7R3's focus system provides a much better experience than I've previously seen with the MC-11, but ultimately quality of focus is still lens-specific.  Newer lenses tend to do better.  The new Tamron SP primes focus great.  The Canon 35L II is very good, and the 100-400L II is okay, the Canon 100L is meh.
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Re: Sony a7R3 Review and 5D Mark IV Comparisons | Dustin
« Reply #35 on: March 05, 2018, 09:58:40 AM »
Dustin thanks for another one of your excellent reviews which are always informative and accessible to the reader. Like you I have owned the EOS M for some time for the same reason as you and like many on the forum I am awaiting a good FF mirrorless from Canon. As you have noted in several reviews a key feature is a really good EVF, in my case because a high percentage of my lenses are MF and I like the process of MF. I also like using tilt/shift lenses and again an EVF would seem to be a potentially very helpful tool. Your review of the a7R3 is interesting not only because of the EVF but the AF performance. I was interested to learn more of its eye AF feature performance and the improved frame rate and buffer capacity because if I buy a FF mirrorless I want it to be widely useable in different photographic scenarios. Whilst my first choice has been and remains to wait for a Canon FF mirrorless if one does not materialise soon, getting the a7R3 when there is a good $ deal on offer will be an option.

Can I ask for more explanation as to how the zoom feature works in the EVF? Such as:
1) How do you activate the zoom/what controls do you use?
2) What settings are there to control the zoom feature (e.g. zoom extent)?
3) After you take a shot, what happens next time? Does the EVF retain the zoom or must it be reactivated again using the same sequence?
4) What point/region does the EVF zoom about?
5) Can you move the zoom region by touch dragging on the viewfinder?
6) Is there any "auto zoom" type feature like the EOS M5 has with native EFM lenses. For example can you set the body up to zoom automatically when you half press the shutter button?

I appreciate any info that you can provide on this. Thanks again. Phil

The nice thing about Sony is that you map most features (including focus zoom) to a number of buttons.  I personally have it mapped to the AEL button.  You do have choices about magnification level and what area of the image is magnified, and even choices on whether you want a color overlay added (I mostly don't use Focus Peaking as I feel it makes the shooting process less organic).  Native mount manual focus lenses (with electronics) will trigger an automatic zoom when you move the MF ring, but not third party lenses.  It's about as good as it gets right now for MF, particularly when you consider you also get true image stabilization on those lenses to boot.
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bwud

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Re: Sony a7R3 Review and 5D Mark IV Comparisons | Dustin
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2018, 11:04:10 AM »
Dustin thanks for another one of your excellent reviews which are always informative and accessible to the reader. Like you I have owned the EOS M for some time for the same reason as you and like many on the forum I am awaiting a good FF mirrorless from Canon. As you have noted in several reviews a key feature is a really good EVF, in my case because a high percentage of my lenses are MF and I like the process of MF. I also like using tilt/shift lenses and again an EVF would seem to be a potentially very helpful tool. Your review of the a7R3 is interesting not only because of the EVF but the AF performance. I was interested to learn more of its eye AF feature performance and the improved frame rate and buffer capacity because if I buy a FF mirrorless I want it to be widely useable in different photographic scenarios. Whilst my first choice has been and remains to wait for a Canon FF mirrorless if one does not materialise soon, getting the a7R3 when there is a good $ deal on offer will be an option.

Can I ask for more explanation as to how the zoom feature works in the EVF? Such as:
1) How do you activate the zoom/what controls do you use?
2) What settings are there to control the zoom feature (e.g. zoom extent)?
3) After you take a shot, what happens next time? Does the EVF retain the zoom or must it be reactivated again using the same sequence?
4) What point/region does the EVF zoom about?
5) Can you move the zoom region by touch dragging on the viewfinder?
6) Is there any "auto zoom" type feature like the EOS M5 has with native EFM lenses. For example can you set the body up to zoom automatically when you half press the shutter button?

I appreciate any info that you can provide on this. Thanks again. Phil

The nice thing about Sony is that you map most features (including focus zoom) to a number of buttons.  I personally have it mapped to the AEL button.  You do have choices about magnification level and what area of the image is magnified, and even choices on whether you want a color overlay added (I mostly don't use Focus Peaking as I feel it makes the shooting process less organic).  Native mount manual focus lenses (with electronics) will trigger an automatic zoom when you move the MF ring, but not third party lenses.  It's about as good as it gets right now for MF, particularly when you consider you also get true image stabilization on those lenses to boot.

Adding to Dustin’s response to Bod’s questions:

Regarding (1) and (6): AF lenses won’t let you manually initiate EVF zoom unless they’ve been switched to manual focus (silly programmatic decision IMO). Therefore I have the C2 button set to toggle AF/MF, and the C1 button to focus magnify.

Regarding (2): I’ve only used it with manual triggering, during which progressively zooms in 3 times. I don’t believe you have any control over it. Once you have reached the largest magnification, the next tap returns to the full image.

Regarding (3): magnify disables after you take a photo

Regarding (4): in MF, it defaults to the center, but you can move around with the thumbstick. In DMF, I believe it magnifies in the area of the last AF acquisition, but I could be mistaken.

Regarding (5): good question. Never tried. My touch screen is disabled.

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Re: Sony a7R3 Review and 5D Mark IV Comparisons | Dustin
« Reply #36 on: March 05, 2018, 11:04:10 AM »

bod

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Re: Sony a7R3 Review and 5D Mark IV Comparisons | Dustin
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2018, 06:35:20 PM »
Thanks Dustin and bwud for the helpful feedback.

Regarding (5): good question. Never tried. My touch screen is disabled.

Interested that you disable the touch screen. I noted Dustin's comments on the screen in his review. Why do you disable your screen?

Talys

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Re: Sony a7R3 Review and 5D Mark IV Comparisons | Dustin
« Reply #38 on: March 05, 2018, 08:14:53 PM »
Thanks Dustin and bwud for the helpful feedback.

Regarding (5): good question. Never tried. My touch screen is disabled.

Interested that you disable the touch screen. I noted Dustin's comments on the screen in his review. Why do you disable your screen?

I've used the A7R2 touchscreen for a couple of full days, and I hated it.  If it's like that, I would probably disable the A7R3 touchscreen and not bother with it too :D

We take for granted in the Canon world touchscreens that more or less work the way you expect them to; I think, not so much on the A7R2.


bwud

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Re: Sony a7R3 Review and 5D Mark IV Comparisons | Dustin
« Reply #39 on: March 05, 2018, 08:15:08 PM »
Thanks Dustin and bwud for the helpful feedback.

Regarding (5): good question. Never tried. My touch screen is disabled.

Interested that you disable the touch screen. I noted Dustin's comments on the screen in his review. Why do you disable your screen?

If I shot with the rear display things may be different, but mainly, the location of the screen doesn’t work with my hand placement. Also I shoot with my left eye, so there isn’t a clean place to shoehorn in my finger.

Additionally, I don’t like the lack of sensory feedback. I’m not against touch panels for camera controls, but so far it doesn’t work well for me.


I've used the A7R2 touchscreen for a couple of full days, and I hated it.  If it's like that, I would probably disable the A7R3 touchscreen and not bother with it too :D


A7rii doesn’t have a touch screen, so yes that would be frustrating...
« Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 08:20:22 PM by bwud »

Talys

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Re: Sony a7R3 Review and 5D Mark IV Comparisons | Dustin
« Reply #40 on: March 05, 2018, 08:20:06 PM »
A7rii doesn’t have a touch screen, so yes that would be frustrating...

I must be misremembering with another Sony body I had borrowed.  I just recall that the touchscreen experience was awful :X

It was many months ago, last year, so apologies for mixing it up.  I suspect it must have been the a6500, as this is the only other Sony camera I've spent a significant amount of time with (outside of a camera shop).
« Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 08:22:36 PM by Talys »

bwud

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Re: Sony a7R3 Review and 5D Mark IV Comparisons | Dustin
« Reply #41 on: March 05, 2018, 08:21:38 PM »
A7rii doesn’t have a touch screen, so yes that would be frustrating...

I must be misremembering with another Sony body I had borrowed.  I just recall that it was awful :X

 ;D

I’m not surprised, the Riii’s feels pretty laggy (versus smart phones, which are my primary baseline).

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Re: Sony a7R3 Review and 5D Mark IV Comparisons | Dustin
« Reply #42 on: March 05, 2018, 08:25:47 PM »
A7rii doesn’t have a touch screen, so yes that would be frustrating...

I must be misremembering with another Sony body I had borrowed.  I just recall that it was awful :X

 ;D

I’m not surprised, the Riii’s feels pretty laggy (versus smart phones, which are my primary baseline).


Yes, "the smartphone experience" should be where we're at for cameras, which, after all, have very powerful processors and expensive touchscreens.  Like Sony's smartphones, would be ok, lol.

Wracking my brain, I am guessing it was an a6500 that I had a poor touchscreen impression of -- though I generally thought well of the camera.

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Re: Sony a7R3 Review and 5D Mark IV Comparisons | Dustin
« Reply #42 on: March 05, 2018, 08:25:47 PM »

Michael Clark

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Re: Sony a7R3 Review and 5D Mark IV Comparisons | Dustin
« Reply #43 on: March 27, 2018, 11:26:52 AM »
Check out Tyler Stalman's videos A7RII versus 5D IV
 and A9 review, most the problems fixed in the A9 applies to the A7RIII as well.

Thanks for the links to those interesting reviews. There is a big killer for me at the end of the A9 - dust on the sensor. The mirrorless sensors are not protected by the mirror so Tyler is scared of changing lenses during a shoot because of the amount of dust picked up which has spoilt many of his shoots, which he doesn't find with his 5DIV. And I have never had to have a sensor cleaned on mine or any of my other Canon bodies despite my frequent changing of TCs in the wild. Also, what surprised was that it was more difficult to lift shadows and easier to blow highlights with the A9 than with the 5DIV - the DR is worse in practice despite all the hype that Canon is bad.

The mirror isn't the primary barrier that keeps dust away from the sensor for a DSLR, the mechanical shutter is.

Do the Sony A7 series of cameras still have mechanical shutter curtains?
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Talys

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Re: Sony a7R3 Review and 5D Mark IV Comparisons | Dustin
« Reply #44 on: March 27, 2018, 11:37:58 AM »
Check out Tyler Stalman's videos A7RII versus 5D IV
 and A9 review, most the problems fixed in the A9 applies to the A7RIII as well.

Thanks for the links to those interesting reviews. There is a big killer for me at the end of the A9 - dust on the sensor. The mirrorless sensors are not protected by the mirror so Tyler is scared of changing lenses during a shoot because of the amount of dust picked up which has spoilt many of his shoots, which he doesn't find with his 5DIV. And I have never had to have a sensor cleaned on mine or any of my other Canon bodies despite my frequent changing of TCs in the wild. Also, what surprised was that it was more difficult to lift shadows and easier to blow highlights with the A9 than with the 5DIV - the DR is worse in practice despite all the hype that Canon is bad.

The mirror isn't the primary barrier that keeps dust away from the sensor for a DSLR, the mechanical shutter is.

Do the Sony A7 series of cameras still have mechanical shutter curtains?

Yes, however, they're unhelpful to prevent dust on the sensor, because when the lens is off the mount, the shutter is open, not closed.

The reason for this is because the shutter is extremely fragile and easy to damage, while the sensor is very tough, and you're unlikely to damage it -- for example, by putting in a teleconverter the wrong way.  The Sony teleconverter protrudes outwards significantly, and putting the wrong end into the camera would destroy the mechanical shutter.

You can fool the camera into making the shutter close, for example, by setting it to a long exposure, pressing the shutter, and then taking the lens off.

Think of sensor dust like this: as often as you see spots on your OVF due to dust, this is how frequently you will see dust on your A7 sensor.   The difference is that on the OVF, the actual image rarely gets dust on it (the SENSOR is rarely dirty; it's usually the mirror or the prism).

When I was birding with an A7R3, I actually had to take the lens off one time and blow on it to get rid of a fleck of dust right smack in the middle of the frame.  If I owned one of these, there is no way I would do field lens changes anywhere close to particulates, not because I'm afraid of damage, but because if it's a moist particle, I'll never get it off cleanly in the field.

This is how close the sensor is to the mount (note the depth of the contact pins -- that's actually how far back the lens goes):

« Last Edit: March 27, 2018, 11:41:02 AM by Talys »

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Re: Sony a7R3 Review and 5D Mark IV Comparisons | Dustin
« Reply #44 on: March 27, 2018, 11:37:58 AM »