June 18, 2018, 01:47:25 PM

Author Topic: Canon Announces the EOS M50 Mirrorless Camera  (Read 25928 times)

ritholtz

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Re: Canon Announces the EOS M50 Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2018, 12:25:45 AM »
Crop factory and no dpaf in 4k is disappointing. Let us see if at least matches with M5 with rest of the stuff except those missing physical buttons. Don't know why did they release this. Instead, they should just reduce price of M5.

why would it have to match the M5 - it's really sitting above the M100.  not around the M6/M5 level of cameras.
It doesn't need to match. If it does, that is a bonus for me.
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Re: Canon Announces the EOS M50 Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2018, 12:25:45 AM »

syyeung1

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Re: Canon Announces the EOS M50 Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2018, 12:28:40 AM »
For the further cropping in 4K video, does it mean that it will use a small part of the censor but focal length remains the same as APS-C?

The sensor's resolution is 6000x4000 (=24mp).  4k is 3840x2160.

1.6 crop factor, if you applied it proportionately to the sensor would give you 3750x2500, but of course, the aspect ratio is different.  So all 1.6 crop means is that Canon is taking the center 3840 pixels horizontally and the center 2160 pixels vertically when recording video.

The lens hasn't changed, so the focal length remains the same as APSC for the purposes of perspective.  But for field of view, because you're only getting the center 1.6 out of APSC, you'll need a wider angle lens to capture the same frame.

So the crop factor can be partially compensated with the 11-22 lens.  Not sure how the small sensor area will affect the overall quality.  Also, not sure how bad the contrast AF performance is.

Talys

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Re: Canon Announces the EOS M50 Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2018, 12:29:07 AM »
I suspect that this is because it will be a differentiator between their $740 camera, and their future $1000 camera.  After all, what other $740 camera has DPAF 4k video?

performance tweaks I'm sure need to be done.  they have to sample 8 million AF points in between frames for DPAF. contrast is taking as part of the frame capture.

No doubt.  I suspect that there will be a DIGIC 8 camera that supports DPAF 4k at some point, though.  Of course, that's just a wild guess on my part :)

After all, this is Canon.  They always have to leave something for the next body   8)

For the further cropping in 4K video, does it mean that it will use a small part of the censor but focal length remains the same as APS-C?

The sensor's resolution is 6000x4000 (=24mp).  4k is 3840x2160.

1.6 crop factor, if you applied it proportionately to the sensor would give you 3750x2500, but of course, the aspect ratio is different.  So all 1.6 crop means is that Canon is taking the center 3840 pixels horizontally and the center 2160 pixels vertically when recording video.

The lens hasn't changed, so the focal length remains the same as APSC for the purposes of perspective.  But for field of view, because you're only getting the center 1.6 out of APSC, you'll need a wider angle lens to capture the same frame.

In practice, it looks like the 15-45mm kit lens on this would have a ~38 - 112mm effective focal length when using the 4k video mode, which is pretty similar to the ~40 - 120mmangle you get on the 5dmk4 with a 24-70mm lens in that camera's 4k mode.

Yeah, that sounds right. 

5D4's crop mode is 1.7 (because it's a 30 megapixel sensor, less is used), but it's pretty close to the same crop factor, so we can just figure on using the regular APSC to FF lens conversion factor when figuring field of view.

goldenhusky

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Re: Canon Announces the EOS M50 Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2018, 12:29:35 AM »
It says silent shooting but there is no mention of an electronic shutter. Sounds like another gimmick. I would be happy to proven wrong here

There is no electronic shutter. It is yet another Canon's "innovation" like Dual pixel RAW in 5D4 confirmed.

Talys

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Re: Canon Announces the EOS M50 Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2018, 12:32:36 AM »
So the crop factor can be partially compensated with the 11-22 lens.  Not sure how the small sensor area will affect the overall quality.  Also, not sure how bad the contrast AF performance is.

Definitely.  The small sensor area gives you the center of the lens, and on consumer lenses, that's a big plus, since the corners are usually comparatively crappy.

AF can't be worse than pre-DPAF cameras (like a t5i in live view).  And it certainly can't be worse than Nikon  ;D

rrcphoto

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Re: Canon Announces the EOS M50 Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2018, 12:41:24 AM »
It says silent shooting but there is no mention of an electronic shutter. Sounds like another gimmick. I would be happy to proven wrong here

There is no electronic shutter. It is yet another Canon's "innovation" like Dual pixel RAW in 5D4 confirmed.

nothing with with DPRAW.  Canon needs to make strides in computational post processing. no one else is.

You really need to take a break from the keyboard a bit.  you're getting a bit much.

it says virtually no shutter sound, so it will be interesting to see how they implemented that *without* going electronic.

rrcphoto

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Re: Canon Announces the EOS M50 Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2018, 12:42:39 AM »
So the crop factor can be partially compensated with the 11-22 lens.  Not sure how the small sensor area will affect the overall quality.  Also, not sure how bad the contrast AF performance is.

Definitely.  The small sensor area gives you the center of the lens, and on consumer lenses, that's a big plus, since the corners are usually comparatively crappy.

AF can't be worse than pre-DPAF cameras (like a t5i in live view).  And it certainly can't be worse than Nikon  ;D

Kai did a video, it hunts like CDAF, it appears rather disappointing.

still probably not as bad as nikon though.

there's still some cool things that I'll look forward to on a M5 Mark II.. the quiet shutter wil be nice, the automatic image transfer will be as well.

AF is down to -2EV versus -1EV in prior sensors.

not as good as alot would have liked but at least, finally .h264 4K made it into DIGIC.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 12:45:49 AM by rrcphoto »

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Re: Canon Announces the EOS M50 Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2018, 12:42:39 AM »

mistaspeedy

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Re: Canon Announces the EOS M50 Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2018, 12:46:20 AM »
Please remember that this is a mid-entry level mirrorless camera, and that it costs $779.
I'm sure that they will introduce other models with better specifications (less limitations), later on.

Up until now, if you wanted 4K and DPAF, you needed to pay at least $3,300 (5D mark IV).

We will probably get a model that does both, but it will probably cost at least $1,000 (even $2000 wouldnt surprise me)

The Sony a6500 costs $1300 can do 30 minutes, unless it overheats (your luck may vary).
The Fujifilm X-H1 costs $1900 but can only record 4K for 15 minutes (or 1080p for 20 minutes) unless you buy an extra $330 battery grip.

So we can't really expect the same features for $779 (on a APSC-sized sensor).


Side note: I guess the 1.6x 4K crop will generate sales for the 11-22mm lens.
I wonder what the quality of 1080p video will be like... can we have DPAF and nice, crisp, clear 1080p from the full sensor?
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 01:26:08 AM by mistaspeedy »
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goldenhusky

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Re: Canon Announces the EOS M50 Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2018, 01:39:12 AM »
It says silent shooting but there is no mention of an electronic shutter. Sounds like another gimmick. I would be happy to proven wrong here

There is no electronic shutter. It is yet another Canon's "innovation" like Dual pixel RAW in 5D4 confirmed.

nothing with with DPRAW.  Canon needs to make strides in computational post processing. no one else is.

You really need to take a break from the keyboard a bit.  you're getting a bit much.

it says virtually no shutter sound, so it will be interesting to see how they implemented that *without* going electronic.

I don't need your advice just mind your own business.

transpo1

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Re: Canon Announces the EOS M50 Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #39 on: February 26, 2018, 02:02:11 AM »
For the further cropping in 4K video, does it mean that it will use a small part of the censor but focal length remains the same as APS-C?

The sensor's resolution is 6000x4000 (=24mp).  4k is 3840x2160.

1.6 crop factor, if you applied it proportionately to the sensor would give you 3750x2500, but of course, the aspect ratio is different.  So all 1.6 crop means is that Canon is taking the center 3840 pixels horizontally and the center 2160 pixels vertically when recording video.

The lens hasn't changed, so the focal length remains the same as APSC for the purposes of perspective.  But for field of view, because you're only getting the center 1.6 out of APSC, you'll need a wider angle lens to capture the same frame.

In practice, it looks like the 15-45mm kit lens on this would have a ~38 - 112mm effective focal length when using the 4k video mode, which is pretty similar to the ~40 - 120mmangle you get on the 5dmk4 with a 24-70mm lens in that camera's 4k mode.

It’s too bad about the crop and no 4K DPAF. Together, those kill a lot of interest in this camera.

Ah-Keong

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Re: Canon Announces the EOS M50 Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #40 on: February 26, 2018, 02:12:17 AM »
Looks like a great step in the right direction....
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Sharlin

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Re: Canon Announces the EOS M50 Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #41 on: February 26, 2018, 02:30:29 AM »
I don't need your advice just mind your own business.

Don't post on forums then where someone might, gasp, reply to your ramblings.

Isaacheus

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Re: Canon Announces the EOS M50 Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #42 on: February 26, 2018, 03:24:55 AM »


It’s too bad about the crop and no 4K DPAF. Together, those kill a lot of interest in this camera.

Even with the crop, if the 4k had dpaf, it would still be an interesting option with something like the 11-22mm ef-m lens, for people wanting a one person rig/vloggers etc.

The cdaf doesn't look great from some of the pre-production reviews - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGHh5062azE around the 7 min mark

looks like the electronic stablilizinng crops in even further too

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Re: Canon Announces the EOS M50 Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #42 on: February 26, 2018, 03:24:55 AM »

Woody

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Re: Canon Announces the EOS M50 Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #43 on: February 26, 2018, 03:37:51 AM »
Pupil AF only in AF-S mode. Sigh...

I hope it's just a handicap in the M50, not a limitation imposed by the DIGIC 8 processing speed.

Larsskv

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Re: Canon Announces the EOS M50 Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #44 on: February 26, 2018, 03:57:13 AM »
I don't need your advice just mind your own business.

Don't post on forums then where someone might, gasp, reply to your ramblings.

While speaking of business. Some people these days are paid to troll. Just saying.

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Re: Canon Announces the EOS M50 Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #44 on: February 26, 2018, 03:57:13 AM »