June 24, 2018, 03:53:28 AM

Author Topic: Canon Announces the Speedlite 470EX-AI Autobounce  (Read 10179 times)

jdavidse

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Re: Canon Announces the Speedlite 470EX-AI Autobounce
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2018, 03:53:38 PM »
Worst concept Canon has had for a while. First, to bounce you are losing a ton of power. A guide number 47 flash pales in comparison to 60 (600 series). Recharge wate will be much slower because of this. If you need to bounce, this is not the flash.

2nd, why no RT? As a wedding photographer, RT is absolutely essential. Combining bounce with RT is key to many peoples workflows.

So who is this for? A beginner who can’t afford a 600, yet can afford this $400 flash, who feels the $200 430EX II-RT is not good enough? Certainly not wedding or event photographers who need lots of power or need RT. Certainly not someone who would rather pay half for their first flash (the 430). So yeah, semi-rich beginners who don’t shoot events. Sounds legit, Canon.

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Re: Canon Announces the Speedlite 470EX-AI Autobounce
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2018, 03:53:38 PM »

CanonFanBoy

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Re: Canon Announces the Speedlite 470EX-AI Autobounce
« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2018, 04:05:55 PM »
Hi Sharlin.
I’m sure cost is involved in the equation, but I’d guess mostly it is to protect its higher level equipment sales. I’m not sure why they would make it optical slave only if it is meant to be attached to the camera, unless it is because some crop bodies have optical master capabilities?
I will tell you one thing it would have to be to interest me, faster than I can do it myself!
I cannot abide waiting for automatic doors that I could open faster for myself, don’t get me wrong, I understand the benefit they give others, but do they have to go so slow when they open, slow closing for safety is fine.
Oops soapbox! Sorry  :)

Cheers, Graham.

So this is really cool how it moves itself but it's a little puzzling there isn't RT. I get that its meant to be attached to the camera so it would be handy if it could be master to off camera flashes.

Probably to keep the price down and because this is aimed at beginner flash users and at situations where you simply don't or can't have off-camera flashes set up. For candid event photography this actually seems really useful.

Graham, the slowly opening doors just make your grand entrance that much more dramatic.  ;)
« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 07:50:00 PM by CanonFanBoy »
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ahsanford

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Re: Canon Announces the Speedlite 470EX-AI Autobounce
« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2018, 04:06:50 PM »
2nd, why no RT? As a wedding photographer, RT is absolutely essential. Combining bounce with RT is key to many peoples workflows.

One would think you answered your own question.  They aren't aiming this at pros.  Pros can use the 600-level stuff.

I see the auto bounce as a neat trick for flash rookies or those that don't have the patience to bounce, chimp, offset/adjust, and shoot again -- this will not be a staple feature for working pros at an event.

I see this thing aimed at the FF-money-level enthusiasts who don't use a flash that often.  The 6D-level camp of shooter immediately comes to mind with this.  What's another $400 if you've already sunk $2k into a body and $2-3k into lenses?

- A

rrcphoto

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Re: Canon Announces the Speedlite 470EX-AI Autobounce
« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2018, 04:19:13 PM »
Worst concept Canon has had for a while. First, to bounce you are losing a ton of power. A guide number 47 flash pales in comparison to 60 (600 series). Recharge wate will be much slower because of this. If you need to bounce, this is not the flash.

2nd, why no RT? As a wedding photographer, RT is absolutely essential. Combining bounce with RT is key to many peoples workflows.

So who is this for? A beginner who can’t afford a 600, yet can afford this $400 flash, who feels the $200 430EX II-RT is not good enough? Certainly not wedding or event photographers who need lots of power or need RT. Certainly not someone who would rather pay half for their first flash (the 430). So yeah, semi-rich beginners who don’t shoot events. Sounds legit, Canon.

always great to hear from camera global marketing experts here in the CR forums.


rrcphoto

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Re: Canon Announces the Speedlite 470EX-AI Autobounce
« Reply #34 on: February 26, 2018, 04:20:25 PM »
I see the auto bounce as a neat trick for flash rookies or those that don't have the patience to bounce, chimp, offset/adjust, and shoot again -- this will not be a staple feature for working pros at an event.

the semi intelligent mode looks fantastic.  automatically keeps your camera / speedlight bouncing even if you change camera orientation? that could be a huge timesaver even for pros,etc.

aceflibble

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Re: Canon Announces the Speedlite 470EX-AI Autobounce
« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2018, 04:41:54 PM »
This would be a great product if it weren't for the price. £499 is the MSRP for the UK, so it's firmly outside the budget of beginners. (Who would of course be the ones to most benefit from this kind of system.) You're going to find very few professionals or serious enthusiast who will pay £499 for a smaller-than-average flashgun, too, regardless of the 'AI' functionality. (Which also is of dubious use; how many experienced shooters need that much help with bounce flash that they'd be willing to ditch their existing gear and pay a premium for a smaller flashgun?) Of course it also lacks some other pro requirements, further limiting the use for that market.

If the MSRP was more competitive, I could see this thing being huge. This is the beginner's dream flash and it could be worthwhile "might as well" for pros. But £499?

This feels like when Canon launched the 35mm f/2 IS. Great lens, utterly stupid price nobody was ever going to fall for. Once they got the price down to half, suddenly it had a market. I see the same happening with this flash. £499, it's DOA. In 12-18 months it'll be £300, and then it'll pick up steam. If they could bring it down to £250 then they've just gotten every beginner on board with Canon for this alone.

CanonFanBoy

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Re: Canon Announces the Speedlite 470EX-AI Autobounce
« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2018, 05:11:12 PM »
Amazing technology. Too bad it isn't innovative.  ::)
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Re: Canon Announces the Speedlite 470EX-AI Autobounce
« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2018, 05:11:12 PM »

ahsanford

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Re: Canon Announces the Speedlite 470EX-AI Autobounce
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2018, 05:15:17 PM »
I see the auto bounce as a neat trick for flash rookies or those that don't have the patience to bounce, chimp, offset/adjust, and shoot again -- this will not be a staple feature for working pros at an event.

the semi intelligent mode looks fantastic.  automatically keeps your camera / speedlight bouncing even if you change camera orientation? that could be a huge timesaver even for pros,etc.

In fairness, I dont want to be too heavy-handed and specific and say "At last! The flash only for enthusiast 6D2 users who are gunshy with speedlites has arrived!"  But I do feel this feature is aimed more at the intermediate / enthusiast folks for a host of reasons:

1) See the video.  If that flash head's speed was like a lens's focusing tech, this flash head motor looks more like STM than USM;D  I think it might be too slow for a professional run and gun event shooter.

2) That motor isn't powered with good intentions -- battery life surely has to be impacted by this feature.  That may deter pros who may be concerned about missing a shot due to changing out batteries (full disclosure:  I am not one, so please set me straight if this is no biggie).

3) This new flash is missing quite a bit that a pro may currently be using today:  see specs comparison here.  If TDP is correct with this, the 470EX-AI is not sealed, it's (relatively) underpowered, and it lacks a host of accessories and creature comforts the bigger pro speedlites have.

I am not, however, saying pros won't use it at all.  It's just that using it will represent a takeaway for professionals on some fronts that they may not like.  But perhaps for some pros, this feature is worth those takeaways.  We shall see.

- A

« Last Edit: February 26, 2018, 05:55:44 PM by ahsanford »

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Re: Canon Announces the Speedlite 470EX-AI Autobounce
« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2018, 05:45:13 PM »
This would be a great product if it weren't for the price. £499 is the MSRP for the UK, so it's firmly outside the budget of beginners. (Who would of course be the ones to most benefit from this kind of system.) You're going to find very few professionals or serious enthusiast who will pay £499 for a smaller-than-average flashgun, too, regardless of the 'AI' functionality. (Which also is of dubious use; how many experienced shooters need that much help with bounce flash that they'd be willing to ditch their existing gear and pay a premium for a smaller flashgun?) Of course it also lacks some other pro requirements, further limiting the use for that market.

If the MSRP was more competitive, I could see this thing being huge. This is the beginner's dream flash and it could be worthwhile "might as well" for pros. But £499?

This feels like when Canon launched the 35mm f/2 IS. Great lens, utterly stupid price nobody was ever going to fall for. Once they got the price down to half, suddenly it had a market. I see the same happening with this flash. £499, it's DOA. In 12-18 months it'll be £300, and then it'll pick up steam. If they could bring it down to £250 then they've just gotten every beginner on board with Canon for this alone.

Yes, the 35 f/2 IS, 28 f/2.8 IS, 24 f/2.8 IS, 6DII, 24-70 f/4 IS and to lesser extents the 70-200 f/2.8 IS II, 100-400 IS II, 24-70 f/2.8 II, etc.  Ideally, Canon wants to be able to execute first degree price discrimination perfectly, but having an initial high price and letting the price fall as demand falls is one way to maximize profit.  Give it a year or two.

scyrene

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Re: Canon Announces the Speedlite 470EX-AI Autobounce
« Reply #39 on: February 26, 2018, 07:05:13 PM »
the first thing I'd look for would be to design the menus for human beings, not for aliens from the planet Zord, and maybe add a modeling light.

Lol! There's definitely some truth in this.
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scyrene

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Re: Canon Announces the Speedlite 470EX-AI Autobounce
« Reply #40 on: February 26, 2018, 07:10:35 PM »
2nd, why no RT? As a wedding photographer, RT is absolutely essential. Combining bounce with RT is key to many peoples workflows.

One would think you answered your own question.  They aren't aiming this at pros.  Pros can use the 600-level stuff.

I see the auto bounce as a neat trick for flash rookies or those that don't have the patience to bounce, chimp, offset/adjust, and shoot again -- this will not be a staple feature for working pros at an event.

I see this thing aimed at the FF-money-level enthusiasts who don't use a flash that often.  The 6D-level camp of shooter immediately comes to mind with this.  What's another $400 if you've already sunk $2k into a body and $2-3k into lenses?

- A

Also in the Wex video, which is of course sanctioned by Canon (and features one of their UK reps), they said it can save power, as it calculates how much strength is needed, so you aren't overcompensating for a less-than-ideal bounce angle. I dunno how accurate that is, time will tell. But sheesh, the OP needs to calm down and see this isn't really marketed towards wedding pros, who are surely already adequately catered for!
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bf

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Re: Canon Announces the Speedlite 470EX-AI Autobounce
« Reply #41 on: February 26, 2018, 09:13:33 PM »
Great Flash! Now please make a smaller and cheaper version  for mirrorless systems.
The dilemma is mirrorless is generally noisier and more needy of better light but you prefer smaller accessories which means less light in case of the flash
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wsmith96

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Re: Canon Announces the Speedlite 470EX-AI Autobounce
« Reply #42 on: February 26, 2018, 10:17:33 PM »
The quote on the webpage says the following:

*As of February 25, 2018. EOS cameras sold up until June 2014, as well as EOS Rebel T7, EOS Rebel T6, EOS M6, EOS M5 and EOS M3, do not support "AI.B full-auto."

I'm betting there will be some firmware updates coming to the older cameras soon.

The T7 isn't an 'older camera' – it was announced right along side the 470 flash.

I see your point, but as their statement is worded I don't think they are done on their supported camera list.
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Re: Canon Announces the Speedlite 470EX-AI Autobounce
« Reply #42 on: February 26, 2018, 10:17:33 PM »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Canon Announces the Speedlite 470EX-AI Autobounce
« Reply #43 on: February 26, 2018, 11:34:34 PM »
I watched the Rudy Winston video and demonstration.  He covered the target market and was quite clear that it was not aimed at professional flash users, so I was surprised to read so many comments re-stating the obvious.

I'm also a bit surprised that the T7 does not support it, but a flash that costs almost the same as the camera is not likely to sell to that market.  But, it is surely just firmware, and if some sell, its more profit, it makes little sense to me to not support it with a T7.

I have very few cases where it would be used, I occasionally use my aging 570 EX II for bounce.  I wonder if My SL-2 supports it, its not mentioned as unsupported.  That might work well for family members taking casual portraits and having no clue as to bounce flash.

mb66energy

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Re: Canon Announces the Speedlite 470EX-AI Autobounce
« Reply #44 on: February 27, 2018, 05:33:57 AM »
No RT: What for? I think this flash is meant as a unit mounted on a camera to make acceptable bounced flash photos for
(1) unexperienced: Full Auto for those who are interested in increased flash photo quality (not the EOS2000/4000 main users)
(2) experienced: Semi Auto, set the flash angle with reference to the bounce surface once and hold it during variable camera positions (hopefully it cannot only do its repositioning only in 90° increments). For those professionals who need a compact solution where it is not allowed or possible to but several flashes in a room to make a better light distribution.

Marketing-wise maybe not the worst solution.
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Re: Canon Announces the Speedlite 470EX-AI Autobounce
« Reply #44 on: February 27, 2018, 05:33:57 AM »