July 15, 2018, 10:41:25 PM

Author Topic: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless  (Read 26662 times)

rrcphoto

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #90 on: February 28, 2018, 03:10:48 PM »
  • No mirror = no mirror slap, one less thing that can fail, make noise, limit fps, etc.
Not wishing to pick a fight with you, but this is something that bugs me. Mirrorless cameras take away, but also insert components compared to DSLRs - and do we have any data that an EVF is less likely to fail (or has a longer average working lifespan) than a mirror assembly? The assumption I see repeatedly is that mechanical stuff fails more than electronic, but that doesn't chime with my anedotal experiences.

Don't believe an OLED display will last as long as a mirror, and even a mechanical shutter. I don't believe thirty years old or more mirrorless will still work - but I guess that's not an issue for many. Mechanical stuff built with excellent materials, engineering, and workmanship may last decades, if not wore out. Many electronic components may decay and stop working earlier.[/list]
I guess both arguments are correct! When designing electro-mechanical devices, a common assumption has been that the mean-time-to-failure (MTTF) of mechanical parts is about 10 times less than electronic parts.

that really depends on temperature.

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #90 on: February 28, 2018, 03:10:48 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #91 on: February 28, 2018, 03:43:07 PM »
"In fact, Canon is #2 globally in MILC".
Could you reference that? I read that they are behind Sony, Olympus and Fuji.

Their mirrorless cameras are only number two in Japan, and certainly not globally.

In fact, Canon is #2 globally in MILC. In Japan, they are behind Olympus, whereas globally, Sony is the MILC market leader. But Canon still sells more FF ILC's than Sony.

I believe you, but I’d be curious to see the data.  Would you mind linking it?

There's not one single reference for this sort of thing. Rather, you have to dig into the financial reports, summaries, and presentation transcripts of the various companies. Unit sales of MILCs look like something this:

Sony: FY2015 - ~1.4M units; FY2016 - ~1.4M units; FY2017 - ~1.75M units
Olympus: FY2015 - 510K units; FY2016 - 550K units; FY2017- 450K units
Canon: FY2015 - ~350K units; FY2016 - ~425K units; FY2017 - unknown, but Canon stated they increased y/y with double-digit growth

Of the three companies, only Olympus publishes actual unit sales data for MILCs. For Sony, overall ILC market share and total ILCs shipped (CIPA) can be used to estimate unit sales of MILCs (which =ILC for them).  For Canon, estimates are based on prior statements modified by statements about annual growth. So, Canon is not too far ahead of Olympus (close enough that they may rade back and forth for the #2 spot), while both Canon and Olympus are far behind Sony for overall MILC market share.

As for the overall ILC market, Canon remains at ~50% of total market share.
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Talys

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #92 on: February 28, 2018, 05:03:11 PM »

Sony: FY2015 - ~1.4M units; FY2016 - ~1.4M units; FY2017 - ~1.75M units
Olympus: FY2015 - 510K units; FY2016 - 550K units; FY2017- 450K units
Canon: FY2015 - ~350K units; FY2016 - ~425K units; FY2017 - unknown, but Canon stated they increased y/y with double-digit growth

Wow, that's a big hit on ILC sales for Oly in FY2017 - in the 20% range. 20%-ish growth for Sony too, very healthy there.

tmroper

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #93 on: February 28, 2018, 07:43:45 PM »
"The Japanese market for interchangeable lens cameras recorded a 10.1% drop in sales for SLRs last year while mirrorless varieties soared 29.2%"

That's the only way you can get Canon to move.... they smelled the money and want their share of it... totally understandable.

Canon's been participating in the mirror-less market for a number of years now, capturing a share of the growth along the way.  They've even been driving some of the growth.  They just have to keep going and inovvating along with the others.  And "innovation" does include pricing.

rrcphoto

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #94 on: February 28, 2018, 08:24:34 PM »
"The Japanese market for interchangeable lens cameras recorded a 10.1% drop in sales for SLRs last year while mirrorless varieties soared 29.2%"

That's the only way you can get Canon to move.... they smelled the money and want their share of it... totally understandable.

yeah because canon obviously hasn't moved before in the domestic market for mirrorless...


IglooEater

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #95 on: February 28, 2018, 08:38:02 PM »

Sony: FY2015 - ~1.4M units; FY2016 - ~1.4M units; FY2017 - ~1.75M units
Olympus: FY2015 - 510K units; FY2016 - 550K units; FY2017- 450K units
Canon: FY2015 - ~350K units; FY2016 - ~425K units; FY2017 - unknown, but Canon stated they increased y/y with double-digit growth

Thanks Neuro! I find these things very interesting.

transpo1

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #96 on: February 28, 2018, 09:16:31 PM »
"The Japanese market for interchangeable lens cameras recorded a 10.1% drop in sales for SLRs last year while mirrorless varieties soared 29.2%"

That's the only way you can get Canon to move.... they smelled the money and want their share of it... totally understandable.

Yup. They finally realized what we 4Kers have been saying all along- cannibalize yourself or others will do it for you.

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #96 on: February 28, 2018, 09:16:31 PM »

rrcphoto

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #97 on: February 28, 2018, 09:28:49 PM »
"The Japanese market for interchangeable lens cameras recorded a 10.1% drop in sales for SLRs last year while mirrorless varieties soared 29.2%"

That's the only way you can get Canon to move.... they smelled the money and want their share of it... totally understandable.

Yup. They finally realized what we 4Kers have been saying all along- cannibalize yourself or others will do it for you.

sure that's why canon's been #2 for two years in a row in japan and well ahead of panasonic who's the darling of 4k and somewhere 4th or worse.


Quarkcharmed

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #98 on: February 28, 2018, 10:02:49 PM »
I wonder if Canon is ever going to enter the medium format market.

FF mirrorless is hard because of great Canon EF range. The range is big and it's somehow a curse for Canon, because mirrorless FF would need adapters plus possibly totally new lenses. And why would I switch from my DSLR to mirorrless when I have native EF lenses for my DSLR and the benefits of mirrorless aren't that big?

Medium format mirrorless will require new lenses anyway so it's not a risk for the EF lens lineup, and Canon will be able to make an adapter for EF so that some of the EF lenses will work fine without significant vignetting.
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mistaspeedy

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #99 on: February 28, 2018, 10:36:13 PM »
Many people want great photography AND video features. Any micro four thirds camera will fall short of the high standards set by APSC and full frame cameras for photography (goodbye Panasonic and Olympus). Since 8 megapixels is enough for 4K video, it is not too demanding for a smaller micro four thirds sensor and the accompanying glass to resolve that much resolution.

Canon medium format?  The could make a huge 0.5x crop factor (2x width and 2x height of full frame) sensor, with some glass to match :)
« Last Edit: February 28, 2018, 10:42:43 PM by mistaspeedy »
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kubelik

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #100 on: March 01, 2018, 12:01:23 AM »
I would be very happy to purchase the M50 except for the dearth of EF-M glass. everything starting at f/4 or f/3.5 and being variable aperture really doesn't cut it. yes, I know there's a single "fast" prime ... which is really a 35 f/2.8 equivalent so not that fast either.

would be interested to see a 32mm (50mm equiv.) f/1.8 prime or a 18-28mm (28-45mm equiv.) f/2 zoom (heck, at least f/2.8). I'd love to have this as a walkaround alternative to my 5D3 but right now with the lens speeds there's not a whole lot of difference at shorter focal lengths between the M-system cameras and my G7x.

ritholtz

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #101 on: March 01, 2018, 12:23:24 AM »
Many people want great photography AND video features. Any micro four thirds camera will fall short of the high standards set by APSC and full frame cameras for photography (goodbye Panasonic and Olympus). Since 8 megapixels is enough for 4K video, it is not too demanding for a smaller micro four thirds sensor and the accompanying glass to resolve that much resolution.

Canon medium format?  The could make a huge 0.5x crop factor (2x width and 2x height of full frame) sensor, with some glass to match :)
M50 is very nice for the price. We can see this for $500 levels on refurb store. Canon did offer lot of gear at ridiculous prices during holiday season. Official video showing various features. Pretty nice pics and tracking.
Like touch and drag feature, Canon should implement some gestures to change SS and A. No need to bother about any missing dials or buttons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADilGN7RUhM
« Last Edit: March 01, 2018, 12:25:29 AM by ritholtz »
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Wolfloid

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #102 on: March 01, 2018, 02:59:17 AM »
Quote
I would be very happy to purchase the M50 except for the dearth of EF-M glass. everything starting at f/4 or f/3.5 and being variable aperture really doesn't cut it. yes, I know there's a single "fast" prime ... which is really a 35 f/2.8 equivalent so not that fast either.

Yes, very poor lens selection, poor battery life, poor buffer seem to be holding Canon back in the mid-range, and of course, nothing in full frame. I am a Canon user, like the DSLR that I have, from a period when Canon was innovating (5D II), have a full complement of lenses, and yet I am seriously thinking of going with the Sony A7rIII or the new A7III. Even the Fuji XT2, with its excellent lens range is much more tempting than anything from Canon now. It is a pity that they are bleeding sales to Sony.

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #102 on: March 01, 2018, 02:59:17 AM »

Talys

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #103 on: March 01, 2018, 03:35:35 AM »
It is a pity that they are bleeding sales to Sony.

Except, as rrcphoto and neuro just posted, they're not:



littleB

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #104 on: March 01, 2018, 03:38:29 AM »

Yes, very poor lens selection, poor battery life, poor buffer seem to be holding Canon back in the mid-range, and of course, nothing in full frame. I am a Canon user, like the DSLR that I have, from a period when Canon was innovating (5D II), have a full complement of lenses, and yet I am seriously thinking of going with the Sony A7rIII or the new A7III. Even the Fuji XT2, with its excellent lens range is much more tempting than anything from Canon now. It is a pity that they are bleeding sales to Sony.
Why are you only whining here?

All your Canon equipment suddenly stopped working and you cannot make photos anymore?
Are your Canon camera or lenses the main cause your photos are bad?

Whining alone will not make your photos better. Just go to Sony fanboy forum, you will be welcome there, feel much better, and in the end your photos made with sony equipment will be so much better.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2018, 03:49:53 AM by littleB »

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Re: Canon, King in SLR Cameras, Makes Inroads Into Mirrorless
« Reply #104 on: March 01, 2018, 03:38:29 AM »