June 23, 2018, 10:30:51 AM

Author Topic: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom  (Read 26942 times)

canonnews

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Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« on: March 02, 2018, 09:07:20 AM »

Fstoppers’s Wasim Ahmad posted an article today on the 4000D, Canon’s new entry level of entry level cameras.


Needless to say, he’s pretty put out over Canon coming out with a brand new camera for under $400 dollars.


Products like these show a fundamental misunderstanding of the camera market today. Instead of lowering the bar, why not raise it with higher quality hardware and software that can beat the smartphone and convince consumers that real cameras are worth it? It’s time to make an aspirational camera.


I have problems personally with this article.   For starters, not every camera should be a inspirational camera in the industry and secondly, your inspiration should come from photography and not the camera itself.   Giving a youngster a unbreakable piece of plastic camera that they can toss around that doesn’t cost alot of money – isn’t a bad idea to fuel inspiration.  The article also tends to ignore the fact that not everyone can afford a Google Pixel 2 or a Apple XL with a high end computational camera, and a camera that costs around 1/3 of a top end phone fits in some people’s budget far better.


Don’t get me wrong, I’d never purchase a 4000D for myself, but I may consider it for my grandson when he gets a little older.  This or a M100 styled camera, he may have alot of fun with.  Inspiring his creativity I think is very important.


Thoughts? I’d love to hear them in the forum.


« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 09:15:57 AM by canonnews »

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Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« on: March 02, 2018, 09:07:20 AM »

slclick

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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2018, 09:11:11 AM »
High School and Community College photo instructors will go ape over this. I can see the requisition forms being filled out already. Like good shots, opportunities are always missed when your mind is closed.
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2018, 09:12:14 AM »
Quote from: Wasim Ahmad
Products Blog posts like these show a fundamental misunderstanding of the camera market today.

Fixed that for him.
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canonnews

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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2018, 09:15:27 AM »
Quote from: Wasim Ahmad
Products Blog posts like these show a fundamental misunderstanding of the camera market today.

Fixed that for him.

LMAO.

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DogpackChris

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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2018, 09:22:51 AM »
Completely agree.  Inspiration doesn't need bells and whistles or the latest and greatest.  I still get inspiration from the original M and the 22 f2.
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Batman6794

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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2018, 09:52:20 AM »
The article could be cut down a bit. I think you could capture the whole thing with the following.

"Yet again Canon has released a camera aimed at someone other than me. When will they wake up?"

BillB

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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2018, 09:59:09 AM »
A blogger's is going to blog. 

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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2018, 09:59:09 AM »

YuengLinger

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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2018, 10:39:04 AM »
Big news would be if FStoppers became relevant again.

LDS

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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2018, 10:41:28 AM »
These are evidently not cameras for for the GAS addicted ones. Not everybody starts photography with a $1000+ cameras and lenses. Used ones may not be easily available everywhere, may look too complex, and there's always the risk of a dud.

I can see a market in:

1) Developing countries.
2) True beginners looking for a cheap cameras to start with.
3) Cash constrained people who still wants a reflex, for whatever reason.

Of course no one will probably ever attach a 100-400 to them (if not for fun), and anyway, with heavy lenses I'm careful about how I handle them even with sturdier cameras. Canon talked about different kits - maybe the 18-55 won't be the only lens sold with. Some of the design choices of course would be unbelievable at a different price point, but they fit the strategy.

The blog also doesn't understand that in the phone market models equivalent to these cameras do exist and sell (although their margins are very thin)  - if he believes everybody buys an iPhone X, Google Pixel or Samsung S9 he doesn't understand that market too.  The cheap Android phones have not the components quality and processing power to deliver the same images the high-end ones do.

Google even launched the "GO edition" of Android 8 to allow low-end phones to run a slimmed down version - because it too knows the bottom line is important to bring people into its platform, and I think Canon is trying to achieve something alike. Maybe we'll see a M4000 also.

If he also believes software processing can do everything, he will find software is able to do only what it is already programmed for - even with AI which just undergoes more sophisticated training. And when it is pushed out of its envelop it could fail big. Even Google acknowledges its "Portrait mode" is far from being perfect, and fails with subjects it don't recognize, being trained on faces only. And anyway, you'll be bound to what the software thinks is right, not what to achieve. That is not an issue for the snapshot crowd taking the same photos over and over - those who wish to learn and start to control their images could find this camera useful, of course if they take it out from the Auto/Scene modes.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 10:49:35 AM by LDS »

Jon509

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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2018, 11:05:33 AM »
He said ASpirational, not INspirational....this is a camera that phone users and other beginners could ASPIRE to, and hopefully realize the benefits of a traditional camera form-factor and system...

Jon in Chicago

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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2018, 11:23:04 AM »
This is a great starter camera. There is a market for this, if only for attracting young people to non-phone photography. And getting the next generation interested is the key to keeping a healthy ILC market.

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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2018, 11:25:43 AM »
I see it as a opportunity for those who are not wealthy or able to afford higher end equipment.  Everyone has to start somewhere, and this opens up opportunities for tomorrows photographers.  Those who do well with it may move to  high end models if they see a benefit and can afford one.  In any event, they will have a big step up from a point and shoot, and possibly at a lower cost.

As someone noted, photography classes which require a point and shoot costing $400 or more may move to cameras like this, or at least put them on a suggested list.

lwan

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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2018, 11:34:00 AM »
Your point about a cheap DSLR for a kid, I get it perfectly. Makes sense.
The 4000D wouldn't be a problem if the high end bodies were stellar, but they aren't.
There is a market between the 1D and the 3 of 4 digits lines that is simply not happy at all with what they get (compared to what the competition has to offer right now).

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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2018, 11:34:00 AM »

Talys

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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2018, 11:34:42 AM »
I see it as a opportunity for those who are not wealthy or able to afford higher end equipment.  Everyone has to start somewhere, and this opens up opportunities for tomorrows photographers.  Those who do well with it may move to  high end models if they see a benefit and can afford one.  In any event, they will have a big step up from a point and shoot, and possibly at a lower cost.

Well said :)


ritholtz

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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2018, 12:51:35 PM »
Wondering if he is buying innovative and exciting Canon TS-E 90mm f/2.8L Macro lens priced at $2000+ along with all those iPhone users?
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 01:01:46 PM by ritholtz »
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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2018, 12:51:35 PM »