June 19, 2018, 08:47:47 AM

Author Topic: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom  (Read 26709 times)

ritholtz

  • EOS 7D Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 554
Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2018, 01:09:26 PM »
I see it as a opportunity for those who are not wealthy or able to afford higher end equipment.  Everyone has to start somewhere, and this opens up opportunities for tomorrows photographers.  Those who do well with it may move to  high end models if they see a benefit and can afford one.  In any event, they will have a big step up from a point and shoot, and possibly at a lower cost.

As someone noted, photography classes which require a point and shoot costing $400 or more may move to cameras like this, or at least put them on a suggested list.
And also in some countries photographic equipment is very expensive in relative terms with all those taxes. Cameras like this have better chance of attracting main street buyers with their price points. It is like all those cheap Chinese phones selling like crazy. Does it have same 80d sensor with dpaf?
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 01:18:28 PM by ritholtz »
70D, 10-18mm, 17-50mm F2.8, 85mm F1.8, 55-250 STM.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2018, 01:09:26 PM »

Helmski

  • Canonflex
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2018, 01:14:43 PM »
No doubt that this camera will resonate with some, but I would argue, those coming into the fold of ILC's would make their way regardless of this model.  I have not heard a compelling argument as to why this will bring in the next generation of photographers. eBay, hand-me-down, refurb, good camera phones, have been around much longer then this new camera. The Next generation is currently being given access/experience to Smartphone cameras that can produce wonderful results, as well as being able to experiment with apps and settings. Dials and knobs don't necessarily interest the next gen. Nor are most newcomers interested/patient in setting the camera up for the best shot or taking the time to gain experience. The next generations that come to the ILC playground will have their expectations dashed with this no-frills video gimped model.
IF canon was really interested in the next generations, more then they are in maintaining the status quo, they would produce an intuitive new design with touch menus that guide/teach you how to produce better compositions. :P

slclick

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • ********
  • Posts: 2518
Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2018, 01:39:24 PM »
Your point about a cheap DSLR for a kid, I get it perfectly. Makes sense.
The 4000D wouldn't be a problem if the high end bodies were stellar, but they aren't.
There is a market between the 1D and the 3 of 4 digits lines that is simply not happy at all with what they get (compared to what the competition has to offer right now).

No one said it's a problem...because it's not. Making correlations between top of the line and bottom? You've really got nothing there except an urge to gripe it seems. Who btw isn't happy? Online reviewers? Next.
Who Cares! Shoot with a 75 year old camera, if you got chops, it will be great!

Hector1970

  • EOS 5DS R
  • ******
  • Posts: 786
    • Flickr
Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2018, 01:58:59 PM »
I've no problem with Canon producing a 4000D.
It's a good camera for beginners. It seems to be like a 500D from 8 years ago.
I'm not sure if its a great thing for Canon though.
It depends on whether the profit margin is.
I'd expect they'll sell quite a few but it will cannibalise the existing lower end cameras.
It would be fine as an emergency backup camera.
Canon probably hope it will sell more lens.
It is though in danger of being a race to the bottom.
Alot of people who buy this camera may never buy anything other than the kit lens.

SkynetTX

  • EOS Rebel T7i
  • ****
  • Posts: 138
Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2018, 02:13:16 PM »
I had many cameras in the last years before I bought the 1200D at the end of 2015. The first lenses were the 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 kit lens and the 60mm f/2.8 macro lens. Both the camera and the kitlens are great to start with. If I had more money at the time I'd probably bought a 24-70mm lens but I could not afford it. Those who will buy the 4000D will not buy the Canon 100-400mm as their first lens and those who can buy the 100-400mm as the first lens will not buy the 4000D as the first camera so there no problem with the plastic mount.
Smartphone cameras are better now than few years ago but a 4000D (or any APS-C) has a sensor that is 21 times larger so no smartphone can come close to them. Canon should probably put newer sensors and processors in some of the entry level cameras but these would cost more. But the quality of the photos you take does not depend solely on the camera but also on how you use it.

Don Haines

  • Canon EF 800mm f/5.6L IS
  • ***********
  • Posts: 6848
  • posting cat pictures on the internet since 1986
Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2018, 02:39:28 PM »
Products like these show a fundamental misunderstanding of the camera market today. Instead of lowering the bar, why not raise it with higher quality hardware and software that can beat the smartphone and convince consumers that real cameras are worth it?

What an elitist snob!

Does he think that it's 1DX2 or nothing? Do you really want to raise the entry bar and keep people out?

This is a very capable camera at a low price. This lowers the barriers of getting into DSLRs, and that will get more people started.

Your mother was a hamster and your father smelled of Elderberries! I fart in your general direction!
The best camera is the one in your hands

YuengLinger

  • EOS-1D X Mark II
  • *******
  • Posts: 1759
Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2018, 02:56:27 PM »
At least some people who spend $1000 on the latest iPhone might have enough money now to buy a REAL camera.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2018, 02:56:27 PM »

Sharlin

  • EOS 5D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 655
Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2018, 03:07:11 PM »
There were probably people lamenting ”the race to the bottom” also when Canon released the 300D (first consumer digital SLR) and the original 5D (first affordable 35mm DSLR). Or, for that matter, the AE-1, which was a cheap plasticky body by the standards of its time.


ritholtz

  • EOS 7D Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 554
Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2018, 03:19:00 PM »
There were probably people lamenting ”the race to the bottom” also when Canon released the 300D (first consumer digital SLR) and the original 5D (first affordable 35mm DSLR). Or, for that matter, the AE-1, which was a cheap plasticky body by the standards of its time.
If Canon releases FF version of 4000d, I will buy it. Hoping for Canon to release very small and very cheap FF Camera.
70D, 10-18mm, 17-50mm F2.8, 85mm F1.8, 55-250 STM.

AuroraChaserDoug

  • PowerShot G7 X Mark II
  • **
  • Posts: 19
Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2018, 03:28:04 PM »
The 4000D will be the new darling of the Walmart camera counter. The consumer market is very price conscious even as the products in it are considered disposable. This is pretty much a disposable consumer product. Everyone that wants to make coffee at home can buy something that will make coffee. Some people want more control over water temperatures and consistency of the grind and will pay for it. The 4000D is a dslr for the Mr Coffee crowd of camera consumers.

amorse

  • EOS Rebel T7i
  • ****
  • Posts: 105
    • Flickr
Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2018, 03:57:12 PM »
I think you nailed it.  I saw that article the other day and it really missed the mark for me as well.  It seems to me that Canon has been pretty successful in owning the entry level market and then moving those buyers up stream as they upgrade - Canon's marketshare shows that they've made some right choices.  This release is very much in line with that thinking.

I think the author is trying to make the case that releasing a camera at this market position turns people away from ILCs, but the reasoning behind this seems pretty flawed in my mind.  They note that this market wants to get blurry backgrounds and then criticize the camera for not being kitted with a lens that can deliver this.  Isn't this fact true of nearly any body you buy, let alone an entry level camera?  It seems pretty misleading to criticize the camera over it's kit lens.

CaMeRa QuEsT

  • PowerShot G7 X Mark II
  • **
  • Posts: 7
Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2018, 03:59:30 PM »
Canon is doing exactly what it needs to do to regain lost sales.  It doesn't cost Canon much to make this camera, and with it they can dip their toes into an unknown, untapped and potentially huge market.  Also, I'm game for this camera: come late-to-post holiday season, when all those Black Friday returns will be sold at the Canon Store refurbished for around $100, I'll grab myself a handful of them for the kids.  The dawn of the disposable DSLR, if you will, a camera you can take to that 3rd world country trip that you wouldn't mind getting smashed, stolen or robbed of, and with WiFi you can set the camera to upload your pictures through your smartphone to the cloud immediately after they're taken, so no loss of precious memories, either.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 04:09:31 PM by CaMeRa QuEsT »

YuengLinger

  • EOS-1D X Mark II
  • *******
  • Posts: 1759
Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2018, 04:23:18 PM »
I suppose some hobbyists here may consider a $400 item "disposable."  Those of us who believe this are very, very fortunate in the USA.

People who shop at Walmart are not some undesirable "crowd."  They are doing the best they can to find goods at prices they can afford.  To judge people by where they shop is as shallow a view of the world as can be imagined.

Such ideas grow like mildew in the brains of those who never tear themselves away from screens, whether in a D.C. office or their parents' basement.

Here's a link to an article from a year ago, "Why Half of Americans Can't Come up with $400 in an Emergency."

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/nearly-half-dont-have-the-cash-to-pay-for-a-400-emergency-fed-survey-finds-2017-05-19
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 04:28:03 PM by YuengLinger »

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2018, 04:23:18 PM »

mistaspeedy

  • EOS M5
  • ****
  • Posts: 221
Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2018, 04:39:40 PM »
There are also many people who have money, but photography is not high on their priority list at the moment. They are spending their money elsewhere. If Canon can get these people 'hooked', then they have done their job well.
Canon 6D, Canon 1D mark II, Canon 50mm F1.4 USM, Tamron 28-75 F2.8

hkenneth

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 27
Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2018, 04:41:23 PM »
No matter what, 4000D will not sell well in China simply because of the plastic mount. No matter how affordable it is.
6D | 16-35 f/4L IS | 28 f/2.8 | 35 f/2 | 50 f/1.8 STM | 100 f/2.8 Macro | Tamron 70-300 f/4-5.6 | 150-600 f/5-6.3 G2

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2018, 04:41:23 PM »