June 18, 2018, 02:09:43 AM

Author Topic: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom  (Read 26590 times)

canonnews

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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2018, 05:06:04 PM »
Just to add, I was curious on how this forum would react versus how people were reacting to the article comments.

It's interesting to see the difference between the two.  Over there, there's a lot more condemning happening and calling it garbage, piece of crapola, and the list shall go on.  Here people seem for the most part seem to "get it".

Travelling around you get to see just how expensive $400 is around world, in a fair amount of places, that's an average monthly salary.

I found it ludicrous that every camera must inspire you, and every camera should be something you aspire to.  Reality has to set in somewhere there.

I do think he has SOME valid points.  Having a low end camera *without* a touchscreen is a valid point.

However if that's the case, then just about all manufacturer's should be condemned because most of them don't have low end models with touchscreens.


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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2018, 05:06:04 PM »

nads

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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2018, 05:30:58 PM »
Interesting... its almost a 40D in many of the specifications.   That seemed pretty damn capable for what any new user would need at the time.

Oddly the 4000D is more SLR than I even own anymore haven gone completely to the M5 and sold the rest.    Of course that blog would have to then consider me the lowest possible form of life with no redeeming qualities.    I'm happy as a clam though.

woodman411

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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2018, 05:58:05 PM »
Just to add, I was curious on how this forum would react versus how people were reacting to the article comments.

It's interesting to see the difference between the two.  Over there, there's a lot more condemning happening and calling it garbage, piece of crapola, and the list shall go on.  Here people seem for the most part seem to "get it".

Travelling around you get to see just how expensive $400 is around world, in a fair amount of places, that's an average monthly salary.

I found it ludicrous that every camera must inspire you, and every camera should be something you aspire to.  Reality has to set in somewhere there.

I do think he has SOME valid points.  Having a low end camera *without* a touchscreen is a valid point.

However if that's the case, then just about all manufacturer's should be condemned because most of them don't have low end models with touchscreens.

Canon is the Toyota of cameras. Boring and lamented by enthusiasts (and you-tube "pros" and reviewers), but reliably and conservatively gets the job done like no one else. As fancy spec-wise as the Sony's are, ask yourself, would you ever see a 6-month old Canon flagship having a dial break like this Sony a9: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1532691/0

Tremotino

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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2018, 06:12:20 PM »
I'm not an expert in IPhone photography, but why is he comparing a dslr with an apsc sensor with a phone camera? Are phone cameras really that good?! :o
you can't even zoom nor holt it propertly in your hands and ovf is nonexisting. 

My cheap china phone costs 110€ and does 95% what an Iphone does. with 1000€ I buy a nice lens not a smartphone :D
« Last Edit: March 02, 2018, 06:15:43 PM by Tremotino »

Adelino

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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2018, 06:13:56 PM »
This price point will inspire many new photographers lots of them will take amazing photos and development awesome skills. In the film days inexpensive cameras were beloved. I don't get why some people criticize products that are not intended for them.

Talys

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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2018, 06:33:52 PM »
Just to add, I was curious on how this forum would react versus how people were reacting to the article comments.

It's interesting to see the difference between the two.  Over there, there's a lot more condemning happening and calling it garbage, piece of crapola, and the list shall go on.  Here people seem for the most part seem to "get it".

Thanks for sharing the perspective :)  Interesting!

I'm not an expert in IPhone photography, but why is he comparing a dslr with an apsc sensor with a phone camera? Are phone cameras really that good?! :o
you can't even zoom nor holt it propertly in your hands and ovf is nonexisting. 

My cheap china phone costs 110€ and does 95% what an Iphone does. with 1000€ I buy a nice lens not a smartphone :D

Fixed aperture (or 2 apertures, if you buy an S9 :D), very little control over exposure in general, not tripod friendly, no remote triggers, no ability to use off-camera flashes, no hotshoe, no ability to put a filter on the camera, very limited focal lengths, crappy storage... and oh, you can barely see the screen in daylight.

Are they convenient, and great devices?  YES!  But as a replacement for a real camera?  Not even close.

This price point will inspire many new photographers lots of them will take amazing photos and development awesome skills. In the film days inexpensive cameras were beloved. I don't get why some people criticize products that are not intended for them.

Great point on how inexpensive cameras were much-loved in the days of film cameras!

pvalpha

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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2018, 06:34:57 PM »
$400 is fine.  People have to start somewhere, and even if it doesn't do much, I'm going to wager what it *does* do it does perfectly well in its spec range.  Canon is consistently #1.   There is a reason for that, even if its not exciting or putting the latest tech in there. 

I find it absurd that people would attack an entry level DSLR from a company known for its conservative yet consistent cameras and gripe about it being too barebones at a $400 price point.  I'm sure that this camera is going to serve people for a decade or so, and its going to allow a lot of kids and adults to discover DSLR photography and introduce them to a system that will likely be around for the rest of their lives.  YMMV.

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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2018, 06:34:57 PM »

Maiaibing

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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #37 on: March 02, 2018, 06:42:34 PM »
Several car manufacturers are churning out "cheap" models for third world country consumers - of which there are already many and many, many more to come. My guess is this camera is being made to entice some of these to become future Canon DSLR users.

Existing US/European/Japanese DSLR market opportunities seems pretty much saturated. In spite of years trying to bulk the trend Canon is nowhere near past sales numbers. Young people are simply not picking up DSLR's.

Canon needs to mobilise potential buyers in third world countries now to build a future market space for tomorrow. If they do not move decisively - these buyers may just skip DSLR's altogether. Probably a real risk already as mobile phones with cameras are pervasive amongst third world urban youths.

unfocused

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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #38 on: March 02, 2018, 06:45:59 PM »
I think the most amusing line was this one:

Quote
It’s time to make an aspirational camera. Otherwise, Canon and other camera companies will keep getting damaging headlines like this and this and this.

With links to reviews on their own website. "Yeah, Canon better do what we say or they are going to have to live with these 'damaging' headlines that we are writing."

I'm sure Canon is shaking in their boots afraid of getting more "damaging" headlines from some obscure site that their customers don't even know exists.

I'm not an expert in IPhone photography, but why is he comparing a dslr with an apsc sensor with a phone camera? Are phone cameras really that good?! :o

Yes, they are that good. If you use them properly they are incredible. They aren't for me, but college students who have grown up with smartphones have shown me videos and stills that they shoot that are amazing.

To the article, though, I agree with most of those commenting here. Canon clearly believes there is a market for this camera and Canon has a better sense of the market than any of us. I actually applaud them for taking the risk and innovating with an extremely low-cost camera. My only criticism is that they should be a bit more innovative about connectivity and ease of use. The big hurdle remains that you simply can't perform basic edits and share images on cameras as simply and intuitively as you can on smart phones. That's the problem manufacturers need to address in my view.

Flack

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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #39 on: March 02, 2018, 06:50:34 PM »
I’m thinking this would be the perfect entry level camera for my niece, she is getting into photography.  I’d rather get this camera and invest in a new lens. What would you recommend for a first lens to go with this camera?

Ryananthony

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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #40 on: March 02, 2018, 06:50:59 PM »
I think the most amusing line was this one:

Quote
It’s time to make an aspirational camera. Otherwise, Canon and other camera companies will keep getting damaging headlines like this and this and this.

With links to reviews on their own website. "Yeah, Canon better do what we say or they are going to have to live with these 'damaging' headlines that we are writing."

I'm sure Canon is shaking in their boots afraid of getting more "damaging" headlines from some obscure site that their customers don't even know exists.

I'm not an expert in IPhone photography, but why is he comparing a dslr with an apsc sensor with a phone camera? Are phone cameras really that good?! :o

Yes, they are that good. If you use them properly they are incredible. They aren't for me, but college students who have grown up with smartphones have shown me videos and stills that they shoot that are amazing.

To the article, though, I agree with most of those commenting here. Canon clearly believes there is a market for this camera and Canon has a better sense of the market than any of us. I actually applaud them for taking the risk and innovating with an extremely low-cost camera. My only criticism is that they should be a bit more innovative about connectivity and ease of use. The big hurdle remains that you simply can't perform basic edits and share images on cameras as simply and intuitively as you can on smart phones. That's the problem manufacturers need to address in my view.

The whole article was a joke.  And if what I hear is true and that all the parts on this camera are recycled (I haven't looked into it much since I'm not in the market for something like this) then I would like to assume this camera did not cost Canon very much to create. If so, I would also like to assume profit margin would be pleasing. If it doesn't sell, they are not losing much, if it does, then everyone is full of smiles.

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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #41 on: March 02, 2018, 07:16:31 PM »
I held onto a Rebel I bought back in 2008 or so, and take it out (along with a 50mm 1.8) when it's pouring down rain and I still want to try from some interesting photos.  Not sure what I'll do when it stops working, but I might buy a cheapo body like this.   Nothing wrong with not wanting to stress out about damaging a $3000 piece of equipment.

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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #42 on: March 02, 2018, 07:20:10 PM »
My first camera was a Russian Seagull camera with a 50mm lens a dirt cheap product that taught me the fundamentals of photography. My second was a Canon FTb at the time this was expensive given my salary but it set me on the Canon road Ive stayed on for SLRs / DSLRs ever since.

The guy is a plank (fool).
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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #42 on: March 02, 2018, 07:20:10 PM »

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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #43 on: March 02, 2018, 07:43:00 PM »
Another use is for radio-synchronized multi-camera set-ups.

And there is a funny item out at petapixel about a photographer who put a radio-controlled APS-C DSLR camera and 8 mm fisheye (the cheapest one, from Samyang/Rokinon/etc) 300 ft from the launch pad at Cape Canaveral. Cool photos, but lens got trashed from the exhaust.

Experiment with full spectrum, infrared, UV modifications requiring replacement of the camera's own hot filter. eg: http://www.spencerscamera.com/full-spectrum-cameras.cfm (not endorsing this place, no experience with it, it simply was the first website to come up in the "mod-your-DSLR" search).

Plenty of uses for cheaper cameras - not just beginner / student fodder.

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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #44 on: March 02, 2018, 08:14:18 PM »
Sony releases a relatively cheap full-frame mirrorless monster ... the A7 III ... for $2000.
at the same time....
Canon releases an utterly boring rerun among other reruns ...

... I can understand a reactionary article to vent off frustration at Canons absence at the frontier of innovation in bodies

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Re: Article: Canon's 4000D and the Race to the Bottom
« Reply #44 on: March 02, 2018, 08:14:18 PM »