June 23, 2018, 04:52:58 AM

Author Topic: Canon wants a 50% marketshare  (Read 8244 times)

KirkD

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 35
    • Invisible Attributes Clearly Seen
Re: Canon wants a 50% marketshare
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2018, 12:16:34 PM »
From my perspective, if Canon wants to achieve its goals they need to up their game in two areas:
  • Increase the rate of release of high end glass but at a price that will compete with Sigma
  • Avoid disappointing new versions like the 6D II by offering something that will get us excited enough to want to buy in to the latest version/camera

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon wants a 50% marketshare
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2018, 12:16:34 PM »

rrcphoto

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • ********
  • Posts: 2320
Re: Canon wants a 50% marketshare
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2018, 12:19:35 PM »
Canon's DPAF is good, but Sony's Eye focus and tracking ability blows it out of the water.
Sony is committed to mirrorless, Canon has not demonstrated near that commitment.
So?  on what planet would it make sense for canon to dump DSLR's even now?

it sounds like you took a wrong turn and ended up in AvTV's alternate universe.

Neither brand will stand still, but Sony has quite a headstart in mirrorless.
Canon now has demonstrated eye tracking AF.  and it's completely unknown to what DIGIC 8 can do in a higher end model.

with DPAF as processing power increases, so it will it's capabilities, PDAF points on the sensor can have artifacts, as well as a finite limit to how much of the sensor you mask that way.

and it's always easier for a company to catch up to someone that has pulled ahead versus the company with the headstart to continue at that pace.

Canon also has a far more interactive UI, far more ergonomics AF joystick pad, and with the M5 simply a more ergonomic experience in a small camera. Something Sony has seemed to care little about.


Talys

  • EOS-1D X Mark II
  • *******
  • Posts: 1649
  • Canon 6DII
Re: Canon wants a 50% marketshare
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2018, 12:32:16 PM »
Canon's DPAF is good, but Sony's Eye focus and tracking ability blows it out of the water.
Sony is committed to mirrorless, Canon has not demonstrated near that commitment.
So?  on what planet would it make sense for canon to dump DSLR's even now?

it sounds like you took a wrong turn and ended up in AvTV's alternate universe.

Neither brand will stand still, but Sony has quite a headstart in mirrorless.
Canon now has demonstrated eye tracking AF.  and it's completely unknown to what DIGIC 8 can do in a higher end model.

Having used Eye AF now, my opinion of it is that it is fantastic for available light candids - just like everything else for the Sony camera.  It makes no appreciable difference in studio portraiture, though, because usually we're at huge depth of field apertures like f/11 anyways.  I mean, seriously, for anyone who does studio photography, when was the last time you took a shot in the studio where the photo was discarded because an eye wasn't in focus? :D

I do look forward to Pupil AF or whatever it's called in the M50, and hopefully, this feature makes its way to DSLRs, too.

From my perspective, if Canon wants to achieve its goals they need to up their game in two areas:
  • Increase the rate of release of high end glass but at a price that will compete with Sigma

How about, "If Sony wants to achieve its goals they need to increase the rate of high end glass at a price that will compete with Sigma."

See how ridiculous both sound? :D  You may want that, heck, I'd love it.  But it ain't gonna happen.  Pigs will fly to the moon first.

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • ***************
  • Posts: 22708
Re: Canon wants a 50% marketshare
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2018, 12:33:22 PM »
Sony is committed to mirrorless, Canon has not demonstrated near that commitment.

Why is Sony fully committed to mirrorless?  Because they couldn't compete with Canon (and Nikon) in the dSLR segment.  What do you supply will happen with Sony —  acompany with a long and inglorious history of bailing out where they can't compete — if/when Canon does go 'all in' on mirrorless?
EOS 1D X, EOS M6, lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

Don Haines

  • Canon EF 800mm f/5.6L IS
  • ***********
  • Posts: 6867
  • posting cat pictures on the internet since 1986
Re: Canon wants a 50% marketshare
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2018, 12:35:31 PM »
Canon's DPAF is good, but Sony's Eye focus and tracking ability blows it out of the water.
Sony is committed to mirrorless, Canon has not demonstrated near that commitment.
So?  on what planet would it make sense for canon to dump DSLR's even now?

it sounds like you took a wrong turn and ended up in AvTV's alternate universe.

Neither brand will stand still, but Sony has quite a headstart in mirrorless.
Canon now has demonstrated eye tracking AF.  and it's completely unknown to what DIGIC 8 can do in a higher end model.

with DPAF as processing power increases, so it will it's capabilities, PDAF points on the sensor can have artifacts, as well as a finite limit to how much of the sensor you mask that way.

and it's always easier for a company to catch up to someone that has pulled ahead versus the company with the headstart to continue at that pace.

Canon also has a far more interactive UI, far more ergonomics AF joystick pad, and with the M5 simply a more ergonomic experience in a small camera. Something Sony has seemed to care little about.

All Canon needs to be a big hit with a FF mirrorless (or EF-S crop) is a decent EVF, like in the M50.... If only they could design one, like in the M50.....
The best camera is the one in your hands

Talys

  • EOS-1D X Mark II
  • *******
  • Posts: 1649
  • Canon 6DII
Re: Canon wants a 50% marketshare
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2018, 12:36:51 PM »
Sony is committed to mirrorless, Canon has not demonstrated near that commitment.

Why is Sony fully committed to mirrorless?  Because they couldn't compete with Canon (and Nikon) in the dSLR segment.  What do you supply will happen with Sony —  acompany with a long and inglorious history of bailing out where they can't compete — if/when Canon does go 'all in' on mirrorless?

This, actually, would be my #1 reason to NOT invest heavily in Sony camera gear.  Even putting aside other markets -- like PCs -- all you have to do is look as far back as their DSLRs.  Great support for those now, right?

It's not that I would never buy a Sony, or Sony products.  It's just that I'd definitely think twice, and I would be more reluctant to invest heavily in the system, since they're obviously not afraid to drop support of existing product in the name of innovation.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 12:40:11 PM by Talys »

Don Haines

  • Canon EF 800mm f/5.6L IS
  • ***********
  • Posts: 6867
  • posting cat pictures on the internet since 1986
Re: Canon wants a 50% marketshare
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2018, 12:38:29 PM »

 But it ain't gonna happen.  Pigs will fly to the moon first.

sorry..... I could not resist :)
The best camera is the one in your hands

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon wants a 50% marketshare
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2018, 12:38:29 PM »

Talys

  • EOS-1D X Mark II
  • *******
  • Posts: 1649
  • Canon 6DII
Re: Canon wants a 50% marketshare
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2018, 12:40:25 PM »

 But it ain't gonna happen.  Pigs will fly to the moon first.

sorry..... I could not resist :)

LOL

+1

ashmadux

  • EOS 6D Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 363
  • Art Director, Visual Artist, Freelance Photography
    • Edward Ofori Photography
Re: Canon wants a 50% marketshare
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2018, 12:49:24 PM »
They want marketshare, but unwilling to not gimp their products even when the competition is stomping them in innovation.

RIIIIIIIGHT, SUUUUUREEEEEEEEE

They know they market-share can come from flooding the low end with models at every price point imaginable, which none of the competition can compete with. Canon's hardcore belief that get them early and they will want top buy a 3k+ 5d series is misguided to say the least.

Add more full frame options, for the love of all that's holy.
Be the best you, screw everything else.

docsmith

  • EOS 5D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 656
Re: Canon wants a 50% marketshare
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2018, 01:57:15 PM »
This will allow us to reach our goal of 50% marketshare of the entire interchangeable lens camera market.

You know, exec's tend not to say too many things like this unless there is already a plan in place.  Especially considering manufacturing lead times.  They do not want anything that could be construed as misleading to investors and what, it is about 18 months from deciding on a camera to rolling it out?  Anything to be released in 2018 is already in production, and if they are making claims like this, I would expect that the M50 is not the last M release in 2018.

« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 02:02:52 PM by docsmith »

Woody

  • EOS 5DS R
  • ******
  • Posts: 1058
Re: Canon wants a 50% marketshare
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2018, 02:13:54 PM »
Canon's DPAF is good, but Sony's Eye focus and tracking ability blows it out of the water.

Seriously?

See this:

"Sony has various autofocus tracking modes too; face recognition tracking, continuous eye autofocus tracking, center lock autofocus, etc. But none of them are as easy to enable as Canon’s focus tracking. Sony also uses a combination of phase detection autofocus (PDAF) and contrast detection autofocus (CDAF), which works well, but does not seem to be able to match Canon’s Dual Pixel Autofocus when it comes to accuracy in situations of low light, or when shooting subjects that have limited contrast."

- https://petapixel.com/2018/03/10/5-reasons-switched-back-canon-sony/

RayValdez360

  • EOS M5
  • ****
  • Posts: 154
Re: Canon wants a 50% marketshare
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2018, 02:39:05 PM »
Cellphones and  the new mirrorless 3rd generation from Sony  def got Canon shook.  A lot of the m50 advertisement is to sway people from  using cellphones for photos. the addition of eye af is def a shot at sony.

PavelR

  • EOS Rebel T7i
  • ****
  • Posts: 148
Re: Canon wants a 50% marketshare
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2018, 02:57:50 PM »
Canon's DPAF is good, but Sony's Eye focus and tracking ability blows it out of the water.

Seriously?

See this:

"Sony has various autofocus tracking modes too; face recognition tracking, continuous eye autofocus tracking, center lock autofocus, etc. But none of them are as easy to enable as Canon’s focus tracking. Sony also uses a combination of phase detection autofocus (PDAF) and contrast detection autofocus (CDAF), which works well, but does not seem to be able to match Canon’s Dual Pixel Autofocus when it comes to accuracy in situations of low light, or when shooting subjects that have limited contrast."

- https://petapixel.com/2018/03/10/5-reasons-switched-back-canon-sony/
It is comparison only for video and with old APS-C camera: A6300.

If I compare Sony A9 vs 1ds3/1d4 - stills - hit rate for moving subjects towards the camera with 70-200mm @ 2.8 is better on Sony (first person experience).

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon wants a 50% marketshare
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2018, 02:57:50 PM »

criscokkat

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 37
Re: Canon wants a 50% marketshare
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2018, 03:00:49 PM »
Now that they've had time to see how well Sony's small size and slightly smaller lens size has worked, or not worked, I think they've had time to see that the drawbacks for pros in going to a new system leaves too much of an opportunity for people invested in EF lenses to jump ship. Even keeping the same size registration distance there are still opportunities to make a smaller camera.

The biggest indicator to me that they are not going to come out with new lenses and/or registration distance is the fact that we have not seen any newer patents on any of this. Canon is one of the most prolific patent producing companies out there and you can almost always see the direction of things from those patents.

Once you see the M lenses start coming out with lenses in the 1-2k range, you might see some pro style M bodies. Until then whatever new full frame mirrorless is most likely going to be the same size, just without a mirror and as many moving parts. The biggest hurdle for Canon will be designing chips that can handle the raw throughput needed to match sony and still keep the much better dpaf and color that canon offers.

I have a feeling once this camera is announced you are going to see this camera sold out for months and months after release.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 03:15:16 PM by criscokkat »

Tugela

  • EOS 5DS R
  • ******
  • Posts: 806
Re: Canon wants a 50% marketshare
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2018, 03:02:13 PM »
Interesting. Canon requires more innovation if they are to compete in the upscale NA mirrorless market.

is it worth it though? the NA mirrorless market is a 15-20% segment of the mirrorless market globally and even only around 20% for value.

I suspect that is going to change in 2018. The NA market may have resisted MILCs up till now, but there are some really compelling products on the market now. The best MILCs are as good as the best DSLRs at this point, and some are arguably better.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon wants a 50% marketshare
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2018, 03:02:13 PM »