June 21, 2018, 04:53:46 AM

Author Topic: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances  (Read 8359 times)

docsmith

  • EOS 5D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 656
Re: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2018, 06:39:58 AM »
This may very well be the "elegant fix" Canon has come up with.  One twist and the contacts move forward and then back depending upon the flange distance.  Looks like there is a second piece in there, with an optical unit, but also allowing for a different physical mount.

So, this leaves me torn.  On one hand, if there are size/weight/cost savings coming with the new mount, if it is the future, then I get it.  It is an eventuality.  But that also means that I am, at some point, looking at a transitional period for my entire kit (as I won't want to use an adapter forever), when I am very happy right now.  So, while I can see this working well, call me something less than excited.  Plus, isn't one of the big advantages to get aware from that moving mirror?  Here you are introducing at least two new moving parts.  Granted, they move not with each actuation, but with each lens change. 

If this is the case, I am more likely to stay with a mirror slapper for as long as possible.  So, come on with the 5DV, 1Dx III, 5Ds II and others.  Give me one and even two more generations of mirrorslappers and another 10-15 years before I have to turnover the lenses in my kit.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2018, 06:39:58 AM »

BillB

  • EOS 7D Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 555
Re: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2018, 07:36:12 AM »
This may very well be the "elegant fix" Canon has come up with.  One twist and the contacts move forward and then back depending upon the flange distance.  Looks like there is a second piece in there, with an optical unit, but also allowing for a different physical mount.


Elegant?  It looks to me like it has a bunch of moving parts, with the main advantages being the ability to adapt lenses with several different flange distances to the camera, and  to insert wide angle and telex lens elements.  This seems to be a pretty complicated solution if all you care about is adapting EF lenses to a new fullframe mirrorless camera mount and you don't care about inserting lens elements.  Not sure how rugged it would be either.

zim

  • EOS-1D X Mark II
  • *******
  • Posts: 1713
Re: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2018, 07:56:35 AM »
Lovin the wing nuts  ;D

jeffa4444

  • EOS 5DS R
  • ******
  • Posts: 1320
Re: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2018, 09:00:03 AM »
Nothing about it is new and how they can claim a patent in beyond me. You can change mounts on Arri Alexa cameras for instance from PL to Panavision retaining electrical contacts, you can change a C700 from EF to PL in fact you can go back to the sixties and see cameras where mounts were changed altering the back focus.
Panasonic / Olympus made adaptors to move from 4/3rd to m4/3rds with electrical contacts.

Nothing of significance is shown in this patent.   
Canon 5DS, Canon 6D, Canon 6D MKII,16-35 f4L IS USM, 17-40 f4L USM, 28 f2.8, 24-70mm f4L IS USM, 24-105 f4L IS USM, 100mm f2.8L IS USM, 70-200 f2.8L IS USM II, 70-300 f4-5.6 IS USM, 50 f1.8 STM, 100-400mm f4.5-5.6L IS USM II, 1.4EX III, EOS 760D, EF-S 10-18mm f4.5-5.6 IS STM & others.

amorse

  • EOS Rebel T7i
  • ****
  • Posts: 105
    • Flickr
Re: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2018, 09:00:36 AM »
Looks like an XC10-style body, no?
That's what it looks like to me - I don't think that the sketch is representative of the upcoming mirrorless cameras.  Even if you don't think it looks like the XC10, the sketch seems to have a vent on one side - which none of Canon's weather sealed cameras would have.  It seems like this is a cinema application. 

Mikehit

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • ********
  • Posts: 2536
Re: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2018, 09:06:24 AM »
Nothing about it is new and how they can claim a patent in beyond me. You can change mounts on Arri Alexa cameras for instance from PL to Panavision retaining electrical contacts, you can change a C700 from EF to PL in fact you can go back to the sixties and see cameras where mounts were changed altering the back focus.
Panasonic / Olympus made adaptors to move from 4/3rd to m4/3rds with electrical contacts.

Nothing of significance is shown in this patent.   

As far as I can tell, it is a patent application, not an approved patent. And we do not know from that if the patent is for the idea or how it is implemented.
So yes, there may be some significance.

And increasingly the US Patent office is getting lazy. With borderline cases they sometimes take the view of 'it looks OK, but I don't understand it. I will approve it and let the court make the decision if someone challenges it". I know from experience that most patent applications are really there to stall the opposition not to actually get the patent.

docsmith

  • EOS 5D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 656
Re: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2018, 09:07:10 AM »
This may very well be the "elegant fix" Canon has come up with.  One twist and the contacts move forward and then back depending upon the flange distance.  Looks like there is a second piece in there, with an optical unit, but also allowing for a different physical mount.


Elegant?  It looks to me like it has a bunch of moving parts, with the main advantages being the ability to adapt lenses with several different flange distances to the camera, and  to insert wide angle and telex lens elements.  This seems to be a pretty complicated solution if all you care about is adapting EF lenses to a new fullframe mirrorless camera mount and you don't care about inserting lens elements.  Not sure how rugged it would be either.

Hence the quotes around "elegant." 

About a month ago I remember one of the sources stating that Canon had an "elegant" fix to the transition in mounts.  Of course, now I can't find the quote, so maybe they used another word to describe it.  I should have referenced it or not included the word elegant.

I can see something like moving the contact part as being a "fix" for the EF to EF-x lens mount as it allows both lens mounts to be used.  Unless this is flawless, I can see myself trying to avoid this transition by staying with a mirror slapper and EF lenses for as long as possible.  If this is Canon eventually making the EF mount obsolete, it is pretty easy to see their dilemma.  They are essentially putting their entire core market into prisoners dilemma, after we know our relationship with EF/mirror slappers is ending, our behavior will change. 

Specifically for me, I can see rounding out my EF kit, and then stop investing in the EF lineup if I know it will eventually be obsolete at some point.  Then, at some point after, I'll assess all options (Sony, Nikon, etc) as I am essentially swapping out my entire kit. 

This is all based on the assumption that this patent is meant to be the EF to EF-x adapter.  But, I for one really hope that Canon keeps the EF mount going for years to come. 

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2018, 09:07:10 AM »

unfocused

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *********
  • Posts: 4158
    • Mark Gordon Communications
Re: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2018, 09:14:02 AM »
If this is the case, I am more likely to stay with a mirror slapper for as long as possible.  So, come on with the 5DV, 1Dx III, 5Ds II and others.  Give me one and even two more generations of mirrorslappers and another 10-15 years before I have to turnover the lenses in my kit.

Canon is not in the business of reducing consumer choice, despite what some people on this forum imagine. Mirrorless is a choice not a replacement. DSLRs will be with us as long as people keep buying them and all the evidence shows that people are going to keep buying them for many more generations.

MayaTlab

  • EOS Rebel SL2
  • ***
  • Posts: 96
Re: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2018, 12:18:25 PM »
The connecting pins aren't adjusted by the body's mount mechanism, apparently they're pushed forward with springs. The body mount looks just like a breech lock mechanism to me.

There is one very interesting things with the idea of movable pins.

Let's imagine that a user buys Canon's next FF mirrorless with a shorter flange distance, and owns two lenses with this new mount / flange distance, and three with the regular EF mount. If that user wants to quickly change lenses with a different mount, he'll rather have to buy three EF to EF-??? adapters (instead of constantly removing and putting on the adapter), which could be expensive since they need to carry electrical contacts.

With this approach the adapter can be dumb as a brick and possibly less expensive. So people would be able to buy several of them and slap them to their EF lenses. That I think could be the "elegant" part.

It's much less useful to people who may be planning on keeping all their lenses EF for a while, but mix both DSLR and shorter flange mirrorless cameras for a while.

Talys

  • EOS-1D X Mark II
  • *******
  • Posts: 1648
  • Canon 6DII
Re: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2018, 12:36:28 PM »
This may very well be the "elegant fix" Canon has come up with.  One twist and the contacts move forward and then back depending upon the flange distance.  Looks like there is a second piece in there, with an optical unit, but also allowing for a different physical mount.

So, this leaves me torn.  On one hand, if there are size/weight/cost savings coming with the new mount, if it is the future, then I get it.  It is an eventuality.  But that also means that I am, at some point, looking at a transitional period for my entire kit (as I won't want to use an adapter forever), when I am very happy right now.  So, while I can see this working well, call me something less than excited.  Plus, isn't one of the big advantages to get aware from that moving mirror?  Here you are introducing at least two new moving parts.  Granted, they move not with each actuation, but with each lens change. 

If this is the case, I am more likely to stay with a mirror slapper for as long as possible.  So, come on with the 5DV, 1Dx III, 5Ds II and others.  Give me one and even two more generations of mirrorslappers and another 10-15 years before I have to turnover the lenses in my kit.

Right.  As amazed as some people are and eager to change to something radically different (or spend money) -- I'm actually very happy with my kit right now.

I would be satisfied with minor iterative improvements, plus a flagship with a tilty-flippy, if for no other reason than that I periodically buy cameras simply due to wear, or the need for another more-or-less-identical body.

miketcool

  • PowerShot G7 X Mark II
  • **
  • Posts: 12
Re: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2018, 02:16:48 PM »
This is an adapter that allows for quick changing between EF and PL mount Cinema Lenses. No further commenting needed. If you've ever worked on a shoot where you need to go between the two lenses, you know it's a nightmare.


Architect1776

  • PowerShot G7 X Mark II
  • **
  • Posts: 17
  • Defining the poetics of space through Architecture
Re: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2018, 02:55:40 PM »
patent application that shows a design for a lens mount adaptor that allows for different flange distances with different adaptors.

Interesting concept.
I really hope a FF mirrorless is just a straight EF mount.
Just have the throat extend to the proper distance.
That empty space put an insertable filter holder.
Or just don't make the camera all that thin as it is easier to hold a bit thicker camera.
Look at a Canon FTb. Does anyone consider it too thick? It is full frame. Obviously it does not have a sensor and the screen on the back but the engineers can adjust things to make the camera be perceived as thinner but again is it that necessary with a 70-200 f2.8 or a 100-400 L lens? Balance counts.
I just hope they figure that the EF mount is excellent for FF and for mirrorless should be just fine size wise of the camera for FF users.
Lawrence Lee Huber, Architect

zim

  • EOS-1D X Mark II
  • *******
  • Posts: 1713
Re: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances
« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2018, 03:53:19 PM »
This is an adapter that allows for quick changing between EF and PL mount Cinema Lenses. No further commenting needed. If you've ever worked on a shoot where you need to go between the two lenses, you know it's a nightmare.



I'm not a pro and I've never worked with such equipment, not trolling or whatever it's called, I'm genuinely interested in why that's a nightmare?

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances
« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2018, 03:53:19 PM »

miketcool

  • PowerShot G7 X Mark II
  • **
  • Posts: 12
Re: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances
« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2018, 07:26:41 PM »

I'm not a pro and I've never worked with such equipment, not trolling or whatever it's called, I'm genuinely interested in why that's a nightmare?

For the most part, you can convert EF to PL lenses because EF lenses do not go past the mount into the camera body meaning the adapter gives the PL mount lens the correct flange depth. The flange depth for EF mount cameras is right at the opening of the body. For PL mount cameras, the lens extends into the body to a deeper flange depth. If there is a deeper flange depth on a PL mount camera you have to match that on an EF lens, meaning it has to come into the camera. Because EF lenses do not taper, you would have to significantly widens the opening which cannot be down with an adapter.

The solution is to physically swap the mount on the camera and change the opening.

The solution to swapping mounts on set? There isn't one.

I've seen it done by a couple of Assistant Cameras when the wrong mount was on a camera needed for the shoot. They had to disassemble the camera while crew waited on them. One of the guys stripped a screw and delayed the shoot. Typically if you need to swap between lens styles like this, you send the camera to one of the rental houses or service centers. It isn't typical because the Director of Photographer prefers to use the same camera and the same lenses for an entire shoot because they all have their own color and focus quirks. Professional cinema lenses guarantee the same look across a lineup.

There are situations where we unfortunately have to make decisions that involve mixing lenses. Right now the most common reason is that Canon offers some incredible EF lenses that their Cinema lineup does not meet, like shooting at 11mm on the Canon EF 11-24mm. Another reason may be that you are shooting on Canon glass for a look or a budget but the Director wants a sequence shot on Anamorphic. Someone has to schedule the camera to get the swap (send it in on a Saturday and break up the different shots between Friday/Monday) or use a second camera body (which isn't preferred because sensors can create variables between cameras).

This article does a great job breaking it down. Canon would need to make a mount that is flexible enough to allow the front of the Cinema EOS body to adapt to multiple flange depths and opening widths.

https://thecinelens.com/2012/02/09/canon-ef-to-pl-is-it-possible/
« Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 07:30:51 PM by miketcool »

CanonFanBoy

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • ********
  • Posts: 2148
  • Bipolar. When it is happening I don't realize it.
Re: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances
« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2018, 12:07:24 AM »
 ;D ;D ;D The patent is for an adapter and people are commenting on how they like or don't like the fake camera.  :o :o ::) :P
5D Mark III, Canon EF 24-70 F/2.8L II, 70-200 f/2.8L IS II, 35 f/1.4L II, 135 f/2L, Streaklight 360ws, Flashpoint XPLOR 600PRO, 26x m42 screw mount lenses adapted to my DSLR. Olympus OM-D E-M5 Mark II, Olympus M. Zuiko Digital ED 12-40mm f/2.8 Pro

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances
« Reply #29 on: April 21, 2018, 12:07:24 AM »