May 21, 2018, 01:46:59 AM

Author Topic: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances  (Read 7087 times)

CanonFanBoy

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Re: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances
« Reply #30 on: April 21, 2018, 12:15:50 AM »
Nothing about it is new and how they can claim a patent in beyond me.   

Come on, buddy. Your understanding of how patents work can't be this bad. Execution is everything.
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Re: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances
« Reply #30 on: April 21, 2018, 12:15:50 AM »

CanonFanBoy

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Re: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances
« Reply #31 on: April 21, 2018, 12:21:26 AM »
This may very well be the "elegant fix" Canon has come up with.  One twist and the contacts move forward and then back depending upon the flange distance.  Looks like there is a second piece in there, with an optical unit, but also allowing for a different physical mount.



Elegant?  It looks to me like it has a bunch of moving parts, with the main advantages being the ability to adapt lenses with several different flange distances to the camera, and  to insert wide angle and telex lens elements.  This seems to be a pretty complicated solution if all you care about is adapting EF lenses to a new fullframe mirrorless camera mount and you don't care about inserting lens elements.  Not sure how rugged it would be either.

Hence the quotes around "elegant." 

About a month ago I remember one of the sources stating that Canon had an "elegant" fix to the transition in mounts.  Of course, now I can't find the quote, so maybe they used another word to describe it.  I should have referenced it or not included the word elegant.

I can see something like moving the contact part as being a "fix" for the EF to EF-x lens mount as it allows both lens mounts to be used.  Unless this is flawless, I can see myself trying to avoid this transition by staying with a mirror slapper and EF lenses for as long as possible.  If this is Canon eventually making the EF mount obsolete, it is pretty easy to see their dilemma.  They are essentially putting their entire core market into prisoners dilemma, after we know our relationship with EF/mirror slappers is ending, our behavior will change. 

Specifically for me, I can see rounding out my EF kit, and then stop investing in the EF lineup if I know it will eventually be obsolete at some point.  Then, at some point after, I'll assess all options (Sony, Nikon, etc) as I am essentially swapping out my entire kit. 

This is all based on the assumption that this patent is meant to be the EF to EF-x adapter.  But, I for one really hope that Canon keeps the EF mount going for years to come.

A Bentley is elegant. Thousands of moving parts, but that is a different kind of elegant.

In this case elegant = "...pleasingly ingenious and simple."

How anyone here knows how many moving parts there are or how robust they might be is beyond me. The negativity around here is brutal.

If this is Canon's way of allowing EF glass to be used on the new mirrorless lineup that is coming then I'm happy. A straight EF mount would have been nice. I guess we'll see.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 12:52:07 AM by CanonFanBoy »
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zim

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Re: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances
« Reply #32 on: April 21, 2018, 12:36:03 AM »

I'm not a pro and I've never worked with such equipment, not trolling or whatever it's called, I'm genuinely interested in why that's a nightmare?

For the most part, you can convert EF to PL lenses because EF lenses do not go past the mount into the camera body meaning the adapter gives the PL mount lens the correct flange depth. The flange depth for EF mount cameras is right at the opening of the body. For PL mount cameras, the lens extends into the body to a deeper flange depth. If there is a deeper flange depth on a PL mount camera you have to match that on an EF lens, meaning it has to come into the camera. Because EF lenses do not taper, you would have to significantly widens the opening which cannot be down with an adapter.

The solution is to physically swap the mount on the camera and change the opening.

The solution to swapping mounts on set? There isn't one.

I've seen it done by a couple of Assistant Cameras when the wrong mount was on a camera needed for the shoot. They had to disassemble the camera while crew waited on them. One of the guys stripped a screw and delayed the shoot. Typically if you need to swap between lens styles like this, you send the camera to one of the rental houses or service centers. It isn't typical because the Director of Photographer prefers to use the same camera and the same lenses for an entire shoot because they all have their own color and focus quirks. Professional cinema lenses guarantee the same look across a lineup.

There are situations where we unfortunately have to make decisions that involve mixing lenses. Right now the most common reason is that Canon offers some incredible EF lenses that their Cinema lineup does not meet, like shooting at 11mm on the Canon EF 11-24mm. Another reason may be that you are shooting on Canon glass for a look or a budget but the Director wants a sequence shot on Anamorphic. Someone has to schedule the camera to get the swap (send it in on a Saturday and break up the different shots between Friday/Monday) or use a second camera body (which isn't preferred because sensors can create variables between cameras).

This article does a great job breaking it down. Canon would need to make a mount that is flexible enough to allow the front of the Cinema EOS body to adapt to multiple flange depths and opening widths.

https://thecinelens.com/2012/02/09/canon-ef-to-pl-is-it-possible/


Ah, understand now, appreciate the detailed reply and insight into your business. Thanks

sanj

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Re: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances
« Reply #33 on: April 21, 2018, 12:36:38 AM »
This is an adapter that allows for quick changing between EF and PL mount Cinema Lenses. No further commenting needed. If you've ever worked on a shoot where you need to go between the two lenses, you know it's a nightmare.



I once had to make the chairman of Unilever wait for 1 hr because rental house showed up with wrong mount. I know what you mean!!

docsmith

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Re: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances
« Reply #34 on: April 21, 2018, 07:27:53 AM »
A Bentley is elegant. Thousands of moving parts, but that is a different kind of elegant.

In this case elegant = "...pleasingly ingenious and simple."

How anyone here knows how many moving parts there are or how robust they might be is beyond me. The negativity around here is brutal.

If this is Canon's way of allowing EF glass to be used on the new mirrorless lineup that is coming then I'm happy. A straight EF mount would have been nice. I guess we'll see.
First, the moving parts are actually detailed in the patent.  Many photos and much text are spent detailing the movement, that the contacts can move forward and back with the movement of a lever.  Also looking at the patent, there are potentially more that one part necessary for the adapter.

If you can look at this in a preliminary assessment and conclude this is something you might want to adapt all your gear to a new camera, good.  My preliminary assessment was that I'd prefer the mount of any new camera I buy to fit my lenses natively or with an "elegant" adapter that would be virtually unnoticeable.  Not difficult to look at the pictures in the patent and realize that this would be very noticeable.

But, the actually the unit pictured by miketcool looks great.  And I totally get it for cinema where Canon sells the same camera with different mounts and the general bulk associated with these set ups is far greater than a typical event/street/etc photographer.  Different systems. 

Finally, what Canon did with the Cinema line is potentially and interesting solution for when they release their mirrorless cameras.  Produce cameras with either a EF or an EF-X mount and then have an adapter for those that want both mounts in their bags.  That actually might make everyone happy.  It would cost Canon more, but, as unfocused pointed out, Canon is in the business of providing options, not taking them away. 

jedy

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Re: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances
« Reply #35 on: April 21, 2018, 03:22:13 PM »
Nice sized grip on it, the body looks quite thick too.
These are illustrations to showcase the lens mount adapter. I don't think the camera body is meant as a new product, just to show the adapter mounted to a generic camera body. Bear in mind this adapter could be for a new mirrorless camera, design of which as yet unknown.
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Don Haines

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Re: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances
« Reply #36 on: April 21, 2018, 03:53:48 PM »
Nothing about it is new and how they can claim a patent in beyond me.   

Interestingly enough, I still have my bellows to go with my OM-1..... I got them used about 40 years ago..... the original lens mount adaptor for different flange distances....  :)
« Last Edit: April 21, 2018, 07:15:59 PM by Don Haines »
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Re: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances
« Reply #36 on: April 21, 2018, 03:53:48 PM »

CanonFanBoy

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Re: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances
« Reply #37 on: April 21, 2018, 04:55:09 PM »
A Bentley is elegant. Thousands of moving parts, but that is a different kind of elegant.

In this case elegant = "...pleasingly ingenious and simple."

How anyone here knows how many moving parts there are or how robust they might be is beyond me. The negativity around here is brutal.

If this is Canon's way of allowing EF glass to be used on the new mirrorless lineup that is coming then I'm happy. A straight EF mount would have been nice. I guess we'll see.
First, the moving parts are actually detailed in the patent.  Many photos and much text are spent detailing the movement, that the contacts can move forward and back with the movement of a lever.  Also looking at the patent, there are potentially more that one part necessary for the adapter.

If you can look at this in a preliminary assessment and conclude this is something you might want to adapt all your gear to a new camera, good.  My preliminary assessment was that I'd prefer the mount of any new camera I buy to fit my lenses natively or with an "elegant" adapter that would be virtually unnoticeable.  Not difficult to look at the pictures in the patent and realize that this would be very noticeable.

But, the actually the unit pictured by miketcool looks great.  And I totally get it for cinema where Canon sells the same camera with different mounts and the general bulk associated with these set ups is far greater than a typical event/street/etc photographer.  Different systems. 

Finally, what Canon did with the Cinema line is potentially and interesting solution for when they release their mirrorless cameras.  Produce cameras with either a EF or an EF-X mount and then have an adapter for those that want both mounts in their bags.  That actually might make everyone happy.  It would cost Canon more, but, as unfocused pointed out, Canon is in the business of providing options, not taking them away.

True, but what one person thinks is an elegant solution may be different from what another thinks. I think an adapter provides more options. If I interpret you correctly, you do too.
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miketcool

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Re: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances
« Reply #38 on: April 21, 2018, 10:34:13 PM »
I once had to make the chairman of Unilever wait for 1 hr because rental house showed up with wrong mount. I know what you mean!!

Oh man! This is why I stopped working on jobs where equipment arrives on the day and they don't want to pay for prep. Inevitably something important gets missed costing production thousands of dollars over paying someone a few hundred bucks to get it right the day before.

The Fat Fish

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Re: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances
« Reply #39 on: April 22, 2018, 07:25:17 AM »
I can see this working for cinema cameras (they already have something similar) but this is far from an "elegant solution" on a standard ILC camera. Talk about over engineering. Either stay with EF mount and build the flange distance into the camera or go with EF-M mount and lower the flange distance on the camera.

Ideas like this look good for a year or two and then look absolutely ridiculous further down the line when Nikon, Sony, Fuji, Panasonic, Leica and everyone else don't have to. Nikon will be biting the bullet and dropping their dated mount. Canon's whilst less dated (electronic) could do with the same.

Don't half arse another thing Canon...

Jack Douglas

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Re: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances
« Reply #40 on: April 22, 2018, 12:31:45 PM »
It reminds me of an item I received from an estate.  A nut-driver with a push-retractible hexagonal insert set that will accommodate about 4 nut sizes and is awfully large in diameter when trying to use it over a small nut.  Pretty ingenious (elegant) unless your smaller nuts are in tight quarters, and then it's useless.

Jack
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fingerstein

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Re: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances
« Reply #41 on: April 24, 2018, 02:42:33 AM »
Eoshd has more info: https://www.eoshd.com/2018/04/canons-rival-to-the-gh5-leaks/
I think in the same way: "If this camera has Fuji X-H1 standard 5 axis IBIS and a Super 35mm sensor, with Canon colour and 400Mbit codec, as well as Dual Pixel AF and handles like a miniature C300 Mark II, but with option for an official Canon Speed Booster to make it full frame, then we are game on.

If it is anything less than you can probably forget about it and buy a GH5 or A7 III!"
« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 02:47:31 AM by fingerstein »

Jack Douglas

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Re: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances
« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2018, 12:04:18 AM »
Interesting.  Get ready for the disappointment.

Jack
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Re: Patent: Lens Mount Adaptor For Different Flange Distances
« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2018, 12:04:18 AM »